Weapons of Legacy

[Rasman]

I saw mention of weapons of legacy in another forum and one of the guys in my current party, if I remember right, a bow or cross bow that's a weapon of legacy. Is there a complete listing of them anywhere or are there particular books I can find some in?

I'm particularly looking for a Monk weapon, like a Quarterstaff, or the like that I would be able to flurry with, but info for a future character for a different session would be nice as well.

[Grumman]

From what others have said, you're probably better off with a normal weapon. They suck, apparently.

[Tavar]

You already can furry with a quarterstaff.

The weapons are contained in the Weapons of Legacy, though there are 9 in the Tome of Battle. I wouldn't waste money on Weapons of Legacy(the tome is a good book), though. They're pretty terrible weapons.

[Mr.Bookworm]

Yeah, I'm going to echo the statement of "Weapons of Legacy suck".

To much investment for too little gain, and then it actually penalizes you for using them.

Probably the best thing for you to do, if you want something similar, is to just ask your DM to put in a cool weapon with a rich and storied (plot-relevant, even) history. Maybe a unique and cool effect.

Or I'm sure there's a fix out there somewhere. There's always a fix. Whether the fix is any good or not is another question.

EDIT: I know I used "too" and "to" wrong up there, but I have no idea how it actually is supposed to go.

[Douglas]

Weapons of Legacy is actually the title of a splatbook. Sadly, while the fluff is good, the implementation is very bad. The general idea is magic items that grow in power as the character does. As a balancing factor, you have to perform rituals that cost large amounts of money to unlock the higher level abilities. So far, it's all good and reasonable.

Then you look at the actual abilities granted, the cost, and the penalties that come with them. Seriously, a weapon intended for a primary melee character that you have to take a penalty on attack rolls and hp to use? WTF? And on top of that the bonuses are actually lower than a character making good use of WBL would normally have and they don't stack with the normal equipment.

It is possible with great care to use the guidelines in the book to design a Weapon of Legacy that is sort of almost worth it. Maybe. All the premade ones are terrible, though, and most of the options available in the build-your-own tables also suck.

[Gralamin]

Notably, the best use of Weapons of Legacy is to get access to Legacy Champion.

[Optimystik]

The best part of WoL is the Legacy Champion, a hilariously badly-worded PrC that can be quite broken when combined with the right other classes, such as limited-progression PrCs (less than 10 levels) and 'theurges.'

[deuxhero]

If you wanted the flavor of a weapon of legacy it would be a lot simpler to just use the Kensai's weapon ability (sacrifice stuff to add it's gold cost in upgrades to a weapon). The Kensai option is simple, doesn't require any gimmicks to operate, you don't need the rest of the party to take you on sidequests and comes from a half decent (Complete Warrior IIRC) book. It's a class feature, but a DM can be convinced to allow it as a feat.

[Temet Nosce]

From what others have said, you're probably better off with a normal weapon. They suck, apparently.

True, the example weapons do suck but it is possible to build one using Weapons of Legacy which doesn't. Also, as was already mention the Legacy Champion requires one (if you ever make a Warlock it pairs particularly well with Hellfire Warlock and some method of reducing ability damage).

If your DM is going to make you use one of the example weapons - don't. Ever.

[sofawall]

True, the example weapons do suck but it is possible to build one using Weapons of Legacy which doesn't. Also, as was already mention the Legacy Champion requires one (if you ever make a Warlock it pairs particularly well with Hellfire Warlock and some method of reducing ability damage).

If your DM is going to make you use one of the example weapons - don't. Ever.

So so many +1s. There are some useful abilities there, even if the example weapons don't show it.

[Killer Angel]

They're pretty terrible weapons.

No, I find'em very cool, useful and powerful.
Wait, but maybe that's because our DM removed ALL the paybacks from using the weapons...


Yeah, WoL, as written, ar not so great.

[Eldan]

That's an idea I've been thinking about myself, actually...
Would the weapons of Legacy be balanced if you removed the drawbacks?

[peacenlove]

Except the xp and monetary ones... yes i wouldn't see it as a problem. Our warlock had a (custom made) legacy weapon without losing any hp/skills/saves etc and he didn't disrupt the game balnce.

[Eldan]

Without those, of course, yes. Just the HP/Saves/skills and so on.

[PinkysBrain]

For certain optimization purposes they offer some things no other items do.

The prebuilds offer some powerful effects which can help in certain circumstances. Bone of li peng for +5 monk levels for instance (without saying it doesn't stack). Mau Jehe allows you to use a single psionic feat without needing/expending psionic focus.

The self-founded legacy items can offer skill bonus items (without WoL you need variant rules for most skill bonus items). Also they can offer a limited set of metapsionics, which is rather unique (no metapsionic rods exist after all).

[PlzBreakMyCmpAn]

The best part of WoL is the Legacy Champion, a hilariously badly-worded PrC that can be quite broken when combined with the right other classes, such as limited-progression PrCs (less than 10 levels) and 'theurges.'

Badly worded? No, it is supposed to do that. It was an attempt to get people to actually use a WOL... IMO archmage is much worse on the wording ('u r teh most pwnzorz mage ever'! but finish the class and no 9th level spells...)

[Vizzerdrix]

http://brilliantgameologists.com/boa...p?topic=5907.0

I didn't see anyone else link to it, so there you go. Enjoy

[Sleepingbear]

That's an idea I've been thinking about myself, actually...
Would the weapons of Legacy be balanced if you removed the drawbacks?

I suppose that depends on your definition of balance. As written, Weapons of Legacy are so 'balanced' that they're a 0 sum benefit. Or worse.

In the games I've run and played in, Weapons of Legacy was used without the penalty tables without problem. There probably is room for abuse but you don't have to leave core for that.

For example, my 20th level fighter has a legacy weapon created from scratch. The GP cost of the legacies wasn't very high and the XP cost was easily made up. Right now the weapon is a +5 Dragon Bane, Fierce Dragon Bane, Holy and one other anti-dragon +1 feature I can't think the name of at the moment. It is also a minor intelligent legacy and adds +10 to the characters base speed. Costed out, the weapon would cost more than 200,000 gp normally so would qualify as 'epic' but really isn't terribly powerful and provides only a slight edge over a 'regular' +10 weapon. If I had to use any of those penalty tables, I wouldn't have touched the weapon with a 10' pole.

Legacy Weapons without those penalty tables are a good way to give a fighter something nice so the classes glaring inadequacies aren't quite so glaring.

If the players work with the DM then it works very well.