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2009-12-13, 08:52 PM (ISO 8601)
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House Rule: Epic Feat Exchange (3.5, PEACH)
House Rule: Epic Feat Exchange:
When a character has the opportunity to select a new epic feat that isn't from a restricted list (such as the epic wizard bonus feats), they can instead select any two non-epic feats for which they meet the prerequisites.
For this house rule to take effect, the character must have a character level of 21 or higher. This rule does not take effect if the character's eligibility to take epic feats comes from a class feature, feat, or other special ability.Last edited by TabletopNuke; 2009-12-14 at 08:19 PM. Reason: Up
Keep 3.5 alive!
Creepy psychics, shark dogs, and whatever else I feel like drawing.
Sci-Fi/Fantasy Homebrew Setting: Breakdown
I am willing and able to critique 3.5 homebrews. I'm still learning though, and I may not be able to help with unfamiliar material. PM me if you are having trouble getting your work reviewed.
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2009-12-13, 10:15 PM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2009
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- Fl
Re: House Rule: Epic Feat Exchange (3.5, PEACH)
Wouldn't making an [epic] feat that gives you two non-epic feats be easier than a rule?
That said, 2 non-epic feats>>>>>most epic feats. (infact, the same could be said for 1 non-epic feat).
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2009-12-13, 11:12 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2009
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Re: House Rule: Epic Feat Exchange (3.5, PEACH)
1 non-epic feat>epic feat? What is this?
Comparing PH and ELH feats, I found:
Epic Will/Ref/Fort (+4 Bonus) vs. Lightning Reflexes/Great Fortitude/Iron Will (+2 Bonus)
Armor Skin (+2 Natural Armor) vs. Improved Natural Armor (+1 Natural Armor)
Comparisons like these are how I came to the exchange rate.Keep 3.5 alive!
Creepy psychics, shark dogs, and whatever else I feel like drawing.
Sci-Fi/Fantasy Homebrew Setting: Breakdown
I am willing and able to critique 3.5 homebrews. I'm still learning though, and I may not be able to help with unfamiliar material. PM me if you are having trouble getting your work reviewed.
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2009-12-13, 11:34 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2008
Re: House Rule: Epic Feat Exchange (3.5, PEACH)
"It doesn't matter how much you struggle or strive,
You'll never get out of life alive,
So please kill yourself and save this land,
And your last mission is to spread my command,"
Slightly adapted quote from X-Fusion, Please Kill Yourself
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2009-12-13, 11:36 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2009
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- Long Shiny Cloud-land
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Re: House Rule: Epic Feat Exchange (3.5, PEACH)
And furthermore, I would say that this is a slight power boost anyway, since you are giving the option of getting more options (if that makes sense). Also, all venerable dragonwrought kobolds everywhere just fell in love with you.
If I creep into your house in the dead of night and strangle you while you sleep, you probably messed up your grammar.
I'm always extremely careful to hedge myself against absolute statements.
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2009-12-13, 11:54 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2009
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Re: House Rule: Epic Feat Exchange (3.5, PEACH)
Keep 3.5 alive!
Creepy psychics, shark dogs, and whatever else I feel like drawing.
Sci-Fi/Fantasy Homebrew Setting: Breakdown
I am willing and able to critique 3.5 homebrews. I'm still learning though, and I may not be able to help with unfamiliar material. PM me if you are having trouble getting your work reviewed.
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2009-12-14, 12:35 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2009
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Re: House Rule: Epic Feat Exchange (3.5, PEACH)
It has to be loredrake... and they can take epic feats at level 1, meaning they now get double feats.
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2009-12-14, 01:10 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2009
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Re: House Rule: Epic Feat Exchange (3.5, PEACH)
Keep 3.5 alive!
Creepy psychics, shark dogs, and whatever else I feel like drawing.
Sci-Fi/Fantasy Homebrew Setting: Breakdown
I am willing and able to critique 3.5 homebrews. I'm still learning though, and I may not be able to help with unfamiliar material. PM me if you are having trouble getting your work reviewed.
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2009-12-14, 09:22 AM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2009
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- Fl
Re: House Rule: Epic Feat Exchange (3.5, PEACH)
Exactly. Most epic feats (except the broken spell casting ones) are just that, linear increases to an attribute. There is a TON of stuff you can get with a feat, with an epic feat you get a (at that point, very small) bonus to an ability (just go look up some character builds and see how many use "boost" feats like that for anything but qualifications).
Loredrake is a LA +0 template for dragons that boosts casting ability by 2 levels (in exchange for d10 hit dice and not having cleric spells on it's list). It's intended for gold, silver, red, blue ect. "true dragons" (and is decently balanced if you are using them) but RAW a DW Kobold qualifies as a true dragon and loses nothing to take it. (DW Kobold, as an "adult" "True Dragon" also qualifys for epic feats, they only use "great *casting stats*" for the most part IIRC)Last edited by deuxhero; 2009-12-14 at 09:30 AM.
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2009-12-14, 03:24 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2009
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Re: House Rule: Epic Feat Exchange (3.5, PEACH)
What would you suggest, then? Should I just dump the rule? I still find the idea that regular feats are often better than epic feats hard to swallow.
What sourcebook is this from? Wouldn't it be fair to rule that the kobold gets 1 less HP at each level, like the true dragons would?Keep 3.5 alive!
Creepy psychics, shark dogs, and whatever else I feel like drawing.
Sci-Fi/Fantasy Homebrew Setting: Breakdown
I am willing and able to critique 3.5 homebrews. I'm still learning though, and I may not be able to help with unfamiliar material. PM me if you are having trouble getting your work reviewed.
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2009-12-14, 03:38 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2009
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Re: House Rule: Epic Feat Exchange (3.5, PEACH)
That's because epic feats are supposed to be epic... but they're crappy. There are a few cool ones, but nothing really epic besides the spellcasting ones. It does, however, help martial characters out, because they can at least kill things with HP damage in 3 different ways instead of one.
What sourcebook is this from? Wouldn't it be fair to rule that the kobold gets 1 less HP at each level, like the true dragons would?
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2009-12-14, 03:42 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2009
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Re: House Rule: Epic Feat Exchange (3.5, PEACH)
So I should dump the house rule?
What does RAW stand for?Keep 3.5 alive!
Creepy psychics, shark dogs, and whatever else I feel like drawing.
Sci-Fi/Fantasy Homebrew Setting: Breakdown
I am willing and able to critique 3.5 homebrews. I'm still learning though, and I may not be able to help with unfamiliar material. PM me if you are having trouble getting your work reviewed.
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2009-12-14, 03:44 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2009
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Re: House Rule: Epic Feat Exchange (3.5, PEACH)
It's not a bad one, just relatively pointless. It helps out melee and spellcasters stay the same, which means optimization-wise, it almost helps (not really, since casters still win), but if your group doesn't optimize, then it might unfairly help melee, not that they would know the best feats at that level.
What does RAW stand for?
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2009-12-14, 03:46 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2009
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- In the T.A.R.D.I.S.
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Re: House Rule: Epic Feat Exchange (3.5, PEACH)
*looks left and right*
"Whew! I thought I saw a Pun-Pun run through here!
*jumps out of thread into threadspace*Originally Posted by The Doctor
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2009-12-14, 03:53 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2009
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Re: House Rule: Epic Feat Exchange (3.5, PEACH)
Keep 3.5 alive!
Creepy psychics, shark dogs, and whatever else I feel like drawing.
Sci-Fi/Fantasy Homebrew Setting: Breakdown
I am willing and able to critique 3.5 homebrews. I'm still learning though, and I may not be able to help with unfamiliar material. PM me if you are having trouble getting your work reviewed.
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2009-12-14, 03:54 PM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2007
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2009-12-14, 03:56 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2009
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Re: House Rule: Epic Feat Exchange (3.5, PEACH)
Keep 3.5 alive!
Creepy psychics, shark dogs, and whatever else I feel like drawing.
Sci-Fi/Fantasy Homebrew Setting: Breakdown
I am willing and able to critique 3.5 homebrews. I'm still learning though, and I may not be able to help with unfamiliar material. PM me if you are having trouble getting your work reviewed.
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2009-12-14, 06:19 PM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2007
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- Near Atlanta,GA USA
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Re: House Rule: Epic Feat Exchange (3.5, PEACH)
I would keep it. It is Lore-drake that is broken, not that rule. Probably ditto for other things that people might bring up about getting Epic feats at pre-Epic levels or whatever... the idea about requiring them to actually BE Epic is probably a good start if you actually need to write down some better rules for it.
[Public Service Announcement]P.E.A.C.H stands for Please Examine And Critique Honestly[/Public Service Announcement]
Currently Running: Equestria Begins (A High Tactics campaign)
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My Homebrew is meant to be used, but, if you do, PLEASE tell me how it goes.
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2009-12-14, 08:20 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2009
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Re: House Rule: Epic Feat Exchange (3.5, PEACH)
Alright, I added that as a note.
Keep 3.5 alive!
Creepy psychics, shark dogs, and whatever else I feel like drawing.
Sci-Fi/Fantasy Homebrew Setting: Breakdown
I am willing and able to critique 3.5 homebrews. I'm still learning though, and I may not be able to help with unfamiliar material. PM me if you are having trouble getting your work reviewed.
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2009-12-15, 01:12 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2007
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Re: House Rule: Epic Feat Exchange (3.5, PEACH)
Epic feats really are poor. But then again, I suppose everything in the SRD is fairly underpowered, compared with the supplements...
Are you allowing supplements in your game? If you're only using the SRD, then I think your rule is fine.
If you're using supplements, you might think about allowing characters to homebrew their own epic feats, and then either try to keep them all balanced yourself, or run them by the board to see if they're balanced or abuse-able. This lets you impose some balance on the players, and prevents things from being game breaking while still letting them really personalize what should truly be epic abilities.Last edited by Barbarian MD; 2009-12-15 at 01:13 PM.
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2009-12-15, 01:26 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2007
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- Switzerland
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Re: House Rule: Epic Feat Exchange (3.5, PEACH)
Yes, epic feats are poor. Think about it: what's in there for a frontline fighter?
You take dire charge. Maybe, as a tripper, one or two combat reflex feats, okay. Maybe, maybe, you find one other feat. And then? As a fighter, you still get tons of feats.
You can take epic prowess, for +1 to attack. Hahahaha.
Or you take, I don't know...
Martial Stance? Expeditious Dodge? Elusive Target? Heck, I'd rather take Improved Toughness thank +4 to a save at these levels! There are probably dozens of good non-epic feats for most builds, but only two or three good epic ones worth taking. After that, the fighter still gets tons of teats, but no epic feats to take.
On the other hand, I can almost see the point in this now: the only people with good epic feats are spellcasters. They get improved metamagic, multispell and automatic quicken for the umpteenth time and epic spellcasting. Fighters get twice the number of nonepics. Makes it slightly fairer.Last edited by Eldan; 2009-12-15 at 01:27 PM.
Resident Vancian Apologist
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2009-12-15, 05:38 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2009
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Re: House Rule: Epic Feat Exchange (3.5, PEACH)
Yeah, I play with just about every 3.5 supplement out there.
I'd definitely allow (balanced) homebrew epic feats. And there's always those epic warlock feats. <3
Any ideas for homebrew epic feats with nonspellcasters in mind that would help out this house rule?
What about Epic Improved Toughness, which would grant 2 HP per HD?Keep 3.5 alive!
Creepy psychics, shark dogs, and whatever else I feel like drawing.
Sci-Fi/Fantasy Homebrew Setting: Breakdown
I am willing and able to critique 3.5 homebrews. I'm still learning though, and I may not be able to help with unfamiliar material. PM me if you are having trouble getting your work reviewed.
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2009-12-15, 05:47 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2007
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- Switzerland
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Re: House Rule: Epic Feat Exchange (3.5, PEACH)
The problem is that feats which provide fixed numerical benefits are rarely worth it: every really good feat, which few exceptions, gives you a new mechanic, or at least the ability to add a variable to something, i.e. a stat, such as charisma to armour.
It's much more work, but technically, you would have to homebrew feats which give non-casters new abilities. Casters get to cast more spells per turn, or they get automatic metamagic, or epic spells. No matter how large the numerical benefits of a feat, the casters will outperform that at some level with enough stacking of spells.Resident Vancian Apologist
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2009-12-15, 06:00 PM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2007
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- Near Atlanta,GA USA
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Re: House Rule: Epic Feat Exchange (3.5, PEACH)
"per HD" makes it variable... although linearly so. "Linear fighters, Quadradatic wizards"... Although I don't know if stat bonuses tend to scale quadratically with level either.
[Public Service Announcement]P.E.A.C.H stands for Please Examine And Critique Honestly[/Public Service Announcement]
Currently Running: Equestria Begins (A High Tactics campaign)
Extended Signature
My Homebrew is meant to be used, but, if you do, PLEASE tell me how it goes.
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2009-12-15, 06:17 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2009
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Re: House Rule: Epic Feat Exchange (3.5, PEACH)
What do you guys recommend, then?
Keep 3.5 alive!
Creepy psychics, shark dogs, and whatever else I feel like drawing.
Sci-Fi/Fantasy Homebrew Setting: Breakdown
I am willing and able to critique 3.5 homebrews. I'm still learning though, and I may not be able to help with unfamiliar material. PM me if you are having trouble getting your work reviewed.