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Thread: 3.5 Cleric Help
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2010-01-13, 07:11 PM (ISO 8601)
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3.5 Cleric Help
Greetings everyone,
I'm new to this forum and I wanted to apologize if this is the wrong place to post this.
I'm new to D&D and have been reading cleric handbooks that I've found on the web but I find them fairly confusing. As far as the characters ability points go I rolled a: 17, 15, 15, 14, 11, and a 7. I haven't really decided where to put anything yet. I would also like to be a human. Any advice would be appreciated.
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2010-01-13, 07:30 PM (ISO 8601)
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2010-01-13, 07:34 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: 3.5 Cleric Help
Clerics can do a lot of different things. Help us understand what specifically you'd like to do.
Do you want to be a healbot? A party buffer? A self-buffer and melee terror? A summoner? A blaster (clerics make subpar blasters, but they can pull it off sometimes)? A knowledgeable skill monkey type? A diplomatic face?
What's the character goal? What's your play style goal? Once we know those things, we can start determining how the mechanics play out.
If you're undecided, I recommend a basic melee clericzilla. Avoid DMM and Persist, as that just gets books thrown at you. The 17 goes in WIS, obviously. The 15s should go in STR and CON, while the 14 goes in CHA. 11 and 7 are your INT and DEX scores, depending: you don't need skills, but they're nice to have. DEX is mostly useless, as you'll be in heavy armor, but your reflex save is gonna suck.
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2010-01-13, 08:15 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: 3.5 Cleric Help
I'm staring at level 4 to fit into an already formed party.
Originally Posted by Gnorman
My first try at making the cleric with only basic knowledge of what the ability scores meant was this: I put the 17in WIS, 15 STR, 15 CON, 11 INT, 14 DEX, and 7 CHA. I chose chainmail armor, a heavy steel shield, and a heavy mace. I had an AC of 19, and an attack bonus of 5. However, with the crappy CHA score I only had one turn attempt per day. Would this work for my basic idea?
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2010-01-13, 08:19 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: 3.5 Cleric Help
Swap the Dex and Cha. You're not going to really need the reflex save. Turn undead is...well it's like superman without super strength. Sure, he can still do laser eyes, fly, and ice breath people, but that means he won't pack a punch :P
Don't take life so seriously, nobody gets out alive anyway.
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2010-01-13, 08:20 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: 3.5 Cleric Help
That is good for stats. You could also put the 11 in dex and the 14 in Int and go with full plate and more skill points. I myself tend to use Cha as a dump for clerics as well. Turning scales poorly as you level up.
Don't forget, at 4th level and every 4 levels after you get a free stat point to put where ever you want.
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2010-01-13, 08:30 PM (ISO 8601)
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2010-01-13, 09:04 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: 3.5 Cleric Help
You have chosen the correct forum for this post.
You could read through the list of available deities to try to figure out which one seems like it would be the most fun to play a worshiper of. If you know what the campaign is going to involve, then you could try to make a character who will be skilled at and motivated to do whatever activities the plot demands. Or, since your character will have one low stat, you could pick a weakness to expand on. Like, if he or she has a Wisdom of 17 and an Int of 7, maybe your character is too dumb to fool.
Do you know what setting you'll be playing in, what the campaign will be like, what material is allowed, and/or what house rules are being used?
There are lots of different character concepts that the Cleric class can lend itself to. For example, you could play a devotee of Erythnul, who believes that killing things and taking their stuff will give him the combat experience, magic items, and divine favor needed to kill even more powerful things and take their even better stuff, in a murderous cycle of self-improvement.
(See, it's funny, because it represents a wry commentary on D&D's standard "adventuring" paradigm.)
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2010-01-13, 09:19 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: 3.5 Cleric Help
I was thinking about switching my INT with my CHA score. I figure Clerics don't receive many skill points to begin with, so it wouldn't matter too much. However, it would lower my concentration check to a -2 and that would hurt my ability to cast a spell during an encounter. I like having an AC of 19 and if I switch my DEX with the CHA then it lowers my AC to a 15.
Considering my odd stats, should I just re-roll my character?
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2010-01-13, 09:21 PM (ISO 8601)
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2010-01-13, 09:22 PM (ISO 8601)
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2010-01-13, 09:32 PM (ISO 8601)
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2010-01-13, 09:34 PM (ISO 8601)
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2010-01-13, 09:43 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: 3.5 Cleric Help
Okay, I like you're idea. Switching to plate armor would give me an AC of 20, which was better than before, and I get more skill points. Plus, I have enough gold left from our last game to afford it! If I pick "Extra Turning" it would give me 5 turning attempts per day, so the low CHA score is okay. I planned on leaving the diplomatic stuff to the more experienced players anyhow . I think I can make this work. Thanks a lot!
EDIT: I forgot about the bonus skill point, I'd more than likely put that towards wisdom for a score of 18 and a bonus spell slot as suggested.Last edited by xarumitzu; 2010-01-13 at 09:52 PM.
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2010-01-13, 10:14 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: 3.5 Cleric Help
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2010-01-13, 10:17 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: 3.5 Cleric Help
Concentration is Constitution-based (oddly), not Intelligence-based. Also, Concentration is probably going to be your most important skill, so max it out.
Every character gets a minimum of one skill point per class level, and humans get their bonus skill points after calculating their skill points from class levels, if I recall correctly, so even with Int 7 your character still gets 2 skill points per level. I'd suggest also maxing Knowledge (religion).
I like having an AC of 19 and if I switch my DEX with the CHA then it lowers my AC to a 15.
Considering my odd stats, should I just re-roll my character?
For domains, you'll probably want War, Strength, Protection, Healing or the like to buff and/or heal yourself and/or others. Which deities do you have to choose from? If the paladin follows a god, you might consider picking the same one, making your characters from the same church, etc. Doesn't hurt to have at least some of the characters already know each other when the story starts.
But, see, I foresaw this, so pointed it out so you wouldn't miss it!
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2010-01-13, 10:23 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: 3.5 Cleric Help
Oh, I did not know that. I'm planning on putting my scores like this now: 17 STR, 11 DEX, 15 CON, 14 INT, 17 WIS, and 7 CHA. It's a level 4 Cleric with full plate armor, a heavy steel shield, a heavy mace. Feat wise I was planning on going with: Extra Turning, Combat Casting, and Diehard.
Originally Posted by Devils AdvocateLast edited by xarumitzu; 2010-01-13 at 10:27 PM.
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2010-01-13, 10:28 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: 3.5 Cleric Help
Having a 15 in strength is a wise choice, str is the only attribute that benefits from odd amounts (a 15 str character can carry more then a 14 str character); of course, other attributes can have an odd value to buffer against drains and to help with boosts (+5 from a tome)
I would put the 15 in con and the 14 in cha... you are not gonna boost either one, and con is more likely to be drained (and having it drained is more likely to be lethal), having that extra point is safer in con.
Dex is pretty damn useless for a cleric, and at 7 int you are gaining 0 skill points per level. I Would swap dex and int so that you get some skill points and lose out on 2 AC (you have plenty) and 2 reflex save (skill points are better)
A more "ascetic" cleric would get a good int for extra skill points and focus more on his true power, spells.
Turning is a really weak ability, it is inferior to anything else you can do; so consider dumping cha.
So my final suggestion is:
17 Wis, 15 Str, 15 Con, 14 Int, 11 dex and 7 cha. (anything charisma based for a cleric has a minimum value; typically of 1... that means that you need a minimum cha of 14 to see any benefit. Dropping it all the way to 7 doesn't hinder you at the least.)Last edited by taltamir; 2010-01-13 at 10:30 PM.
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2010-01-13, 10:35 PM (ISO 8601)
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2010-01-14, 01:24 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: 3.5 Cleric Help
Uses of Turn Undead can be used to power various non-core feats that range from useful to darned cheesy. But that's nothing that a beginning player needs to worry about, and using Turn Undead to actually turn undead tends not to be too great, so yeah.
(anything charisma based for a cleric has a minimum value; typically of 1... that means that you need a minimum cha of 14 to see any benefit. Dropping it all the way to 7 doesn't hinder you at the least.)
Where'd the extra 17 come from? I'm guessing you mean 15 Str.
Which skills are you planning on picking up? If you're going with 14 for Int, I'd suggest Concentration, Knowledge (religion), Spellcraft, Knowledge (the planes), and Knowledge (history). (Diplomacy and Knowledge (arcana) should already be pretty well covered by the bard and wizard, and Heal is fairly worthless next to magical healing.)
Feat wise I was planning on going with: Extra Turning, Combat Casting, and Diehard.
Using Extra Turning to make up for low Charisma doesn't really make much sense unless you're going to use turn undead uses to fuel divine feats. Low Cha means that you'll turn undead relatively poorly when you do it anyway, and Turn Undead is sort of a lackluster ability to start with, so you're sort of mostly giving your character more chances to suck.
I was planning on following Pelor.
So, the Healing domain for healing (duh), Good and/or Strength for buffing, and/or... Sun if you want to turn undead well.
Because it is possible to turn undead well, and have Turn Undead be a useful ability. You can take the Sun domain, put a good score in Charisma, take the Extra Turning and Improved Turning feats, and eventually pick up a phylactery of undead turning and cloak of charisma. All of these things synergize with each other and serve to make each other worthwhile and add up to something powerful.
But don't half-ass Turn Undead, because like a lot of things, it needs to be increasingly buffed as you level to remain worthwhile.
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2010-01-14, 08:39 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: 3.5 Cleric Help
Yeah, I meant 15 STR. As far as skills go, I was planning on Concentration Knowledge (religion), Spellcraft, Knowledge (history). I hadn't thought about knowledge (the planes) but I'll keep that in mind.
Are you saying that Pelor is a good choice?
I see what you're saying about Turn Undead. Seeing as how I have the low CHA score, should I just focus more on the healing and strength domains? Which feats would you suggest if in the place of Extra Turning and Diehard?
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2010-01-14, 09:05 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: 3.5 Cleric Help
Combat Casting, unless you are looking at a prestige class that needs it, is usually weaker than Skill Focus: Concentration. The bonuses are almost the same (+3 vs +4), but combat casting only helps with casting defensively (which isn't usually that hard if you keep your concentration ranks maxed), while the skill focus helps with all kinds of other concentration checks, like if an archer shoots you to try to disrupt your spell, or if you are casting from the mast of a rocking ship in a hurricane. Those checks can have higher difficulties.
Last edited by Gnaeus; 2010-01-14 at 09:10 AM.
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2010-01-14, 09:07 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: 3.5 Cleric Help
Pelor has the sun domain and opens up the fairly nice Radiant Servant of Pelor prestige class, which is very nice for in-combat healing, (despite what people say, it's nice to have the option), light spells, (There are actually a few nice ones out there), and turning undead.
The Sun Domain lets you actually effect the undead in a significant way when you fight them, because they're actually destroyed when you use greater turning rather then just turned. It also has the benefit of freeing up more turning attempts if you're fighting undead.
But again, this would require you to have a nice Charisma if you want to make use of it. If you want to stick with your Int, have you considered Knowledge Devotion for Complete Champion? It's a great feat for the clever melee types.The only thing worse than an empty signature is one that has nothing at all to say. One that simply yammers on with little or no point; quietly, subtly draining away seconds of your life.
The worst are the ones that look like they have a point. Multiple paragraph monstrosities that you're sure will have some sort of satisfying conclusion. Some sort of goal, to show that your reading was not in vain.
It doesn't and it was.
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2010-01-14, 10:42 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: 3.5 Cleric Help
It's hard to go wrong with a cleric. I made one that had a deck of cards with the PHB spells on it and he just picked randomly every morning. (Unless he needed to cast a specific spell right now.) Of course I used that quirk as a flaw and claimed a feat.
Mannerism RPG An RPG in which your descriptions resolve your actions and sculpts your growth.
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2010-01-14, 12:22 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: 3.5 Cleric Help
Are you a Lawful X Cleric? Have you access to complete champion? Do you want to go melee?
If the answers to the above questions are all "yes", then you can grab, without fear or doubt, Law Devotion as a feat.
It is not a "dangerous degree of optimization" but it nets you a +3 sacred bonus to attack or AC (you choose between them at the begining of your turn) for 1 minute everyday, and another minute for every 3 Turns you spend. Best part? First use is free, and it costs only a swift action to activate. Also the feat escalonates! The sacred bonus will grow to +4 and +5 within time! Much better than, let's say, weapon focus... For the record. (Also, if you are cahotic, stream far away from chaos devotion. It looks cool, but you can't really control it between "on/off" so let it pass).
Now, if you want to go melee, cast away that shield for now. You have spells that do better. Grab the biggest meanest 2 handed weapon you can see around (right now it means that you will be wielding a morningstar or heavy mace with 2 hands) and Power Attack for a respectable damage for the rest of your life.
Power Attack + Law Devotion +2 hands = +6 damage with every swing at 0 penalty to your attack. Niiiiice. (Will grow to +8 and +10 in the future)
Also, your spells are your best friends. Divine Favor... Remember that +1 luck bonus to attack and damage? Well, it is growing right now and it will become a +5 luck bonus in the future... All this while being a 1st level spell you can turn into a 5th level spells by Quickening it. Swift action... Niiiice. You could also Persist it, turning it into a 7th level spell. Your choice latter in the game.
Other spells that you should be looking for are Divine Power, Magic Weapon (Greater), Magic Vestment and Righteous Might. All these are enough to make you a really efficient war machine.
Now, if you want to optimize this character, PM me. I don't think it is a good idea for you right now, but if you really want to know... Well... Call me.Paladin Review - A Class Balance by me
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Originally Posted by Dyllan
Fawsto is definitely a lawyer. Nothing against what you said, Fawsto - but I've never read anything that sounded more like it came from a lawyer. :-)
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2010-01-14, 12:22 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: 3.5 Cleric Help
Hm, I think at this point I'm just going to re-roll the character so I don't have to get boned in one area. At least try to get the modifier to a 0 just in case I ever need it. It seems Clerics use a little bit of everything.
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2010-01-14, 12:33 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: 3.5 Cleric Help
No, do not rerol!
This character has awesome stats!!!
Do not try to excell everywhere. Do not try to do everything. No class can, no matter the stats they have.
Your Cleric has awesome stats. Two 17s? C'mon, you have everything you ever wanted. Don't risk a stream of 11s just to get rid of a 7. Does not worth it.
That 7 is your charisma. Period. The other stats can go anywhere depending on what role you want to fill. A 17 to Str and another to Wis coupled with a 15 or 14 to con nets you an excellent melee cleric.
Hell, you could do almost anything with those stats and be badass on it. You can't however, and I will repeat myself, do every cleric role. Even if you got 6 18s, it would still be impossible to do it.
Pick something up, like Buffer or Meleer or even heal bot (not advised) and focus on it. Them choose a close seccondary role, like being a Meleer that helps healing the party. Your party will thank you.
Talking about'em, let them fulfill other roles. If there is a Pally in your group, help him being his partner in melee and ask for his help while healing everybody (lay on hands, although crappy, can help a lot). Let the rogue be the skillmonkey and the wizard will be the one doing everything else.
My OP? Reroll is a bad option right now.Paladin Review - A Class Balance by me
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Originally Posted by Dyllan
Fawsto is definitely a lawyer. Nothing against what you said, Fawsto - but I've never read anything that sounded more like it came from a lawyer. :-)
- Bruce Dickinson, Born in 58
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2010-01-14, 12:43 PM (ISO 8601)
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