Non-Standard Offensive Spells

[subject42]

I've been leafing through the SRD and just noticed that the spell Plane Shift can be used on an unwilling target. That's a pretty nice save or die.

Are there any other spells that are normally used for buffing or utility that can be used to good effect offensively? Enlarge person springs to mind against ranged attackers.

[Heliomance]

Hold Portal. The level 1 Instakill.

[Temotei]

Create water?

Conjure up two gallons at first level, using it to find invisible enemies before you're supposed to (see invisibility, true seeing, glitterdust).

Or you could drown someone with it if you trap them somewhere.

[Eloel]

Shrink Item.
Ouch.

Reduce Person on a Halfling Rogue. Watch him cry because he can't attack.

[AustontheGreat1]

Hold Portal. The level 1 Instakill.

care to elaborate?

[Crow]

Shatter can be used to destroy an opponent's armor or weapon.

[subject42]

Shatter can be used to destroy an opponent's armor or weapon.

Is that non-standard? We get hit with that in low-level games all the time. Maybe I just have a DM that possesses the gleeful maliciousness of young children and cats.

[The Dark Fiddler]

Reduce Person on a Halfling Rogue. Watch him cry because he can't attack.

But he can still attack... and now has better bonuses to attack rolls and to AC.

Granted, he has to be in the square now, unless being a ranged rogue, but Tumble class skill + natural Dex bonus.

also, inb4locatecitybomb

[lsfreak]

But he can still attack... and now has better bonuses to attack rolls and to AC.

Granted, he has to be in the square now, unless being a ranged rogue, but Tumble class skill + natural Dex bonus.

The problem is that you have to be able to reach something vital in order to sneak attack: shrink the rogue down to Tiny and he can't reach the vitals on a human-sized opponent. It's one of the more-forgotten rules that ends up screwing rogues at higher levels, where monsters tend to get bigger and bigger.

[sonofzeal]

Dream Travel is a nasty one for Elocators. Not the most effective, but just plain mean.

Rage, on spellcasters.

Fabricate can be used offensively, if you're clever enough and stick to 10' cubes.

[The Dark Fiddler]

The problem is that you have to be able to reach something vital in order to sneak attack: shrink the rogue down to Tiny and he can't reach the vitals on a human-sized opponent. It's one of the more-forgotten rules that ends up screwing rogues at higher levels, where monsters tend to get bigger and bigger.

I dunno, Tiny's still 1-2 feet tall. Add in another half a foot (estimate) for reach + weapon, and you'll probably be able to reach the groin/stomach on a shorter opponent. Jump if you still can't. (And if you still can't, I'm sure the back of the knee cap is pretty painful.)

[Zaq]

In the Test of Spite, I've noticed Helping Hand be used to find enemies whose locations are otherwise unknown. It's not an especially new trick and I certainly didn't think of it, but it's not something you see every day.

[Tyndmyr]

Locate Object can be used to find people as well. =)

Shrink Item is great...oooh, nice breastplate there. *blam* Too bad about your chest, though.

[Lapak]

Rage, on spellcasters

That specifies willing targets, though.

[tyckspoon]

I dunno, Tiny's still 1-2 feet tall. Add in another half a foot (estimate) for reach + weapon, and you'll probably be able to reach the groin/stomach on a shorter opponent. Jump if you still can't. (And if you still can't, I'm sure the back of the knee cap is pretty painful.)

The impact of that rule has an unpleasant reliance on DM interpretation (note: I'm not against DM interpretation. I don't think it should be a fundamental part of a class's core combat compentency.) Does 'vitals' mean just the core organs? Do you have to be able to shank something in the kidney/spleen/heart/lungs to score a Sneak Attack? Or does slicing an Achille's tendon or cutting open the wrist count? In the first case, Small or smaller rogues are severely disadvantaged when dealing with Large or large enemies. In the second case, you can Sneak Attack pretty much anything you can reach. I go with the second. Sneak Attack has enough crap to deal with without yet another horribly common "no, you can't do that" condition.

[Coidzor]

The impact of that rule has an unpleasant reliance on DM interpretation (note: I'm not against DM interpretation. I don't think it should be a fundamental part of a class's core combat compentency.) Does 'vitals' mean just the core organs? Do you have to be able to shank something in the kidney/spleen/heart/lungs to score a Sneak Attack? Or does slicing an Achille's tendon or cutting open the wrist count? In the first case, Small or smaller rogues are severely disadvantaged when dealing with Large or large enemies. In the second case, you can Sneak Attack pretty much anything you can reach. I go with the second. Sneak Attack has enough crap to deal with without yet another horribly common "no, you can't do that" condition.

After all, where's it say that one has to be a certain minimum or maximum size in order to sneak attack another size?

[Longcat]

Reverse Gravity on an open plane is pretty deadly against non-flying opponents.
Shadow Walk can be used to abandon people on the Shadow plane.

[lsfreak]

After all, where's it say that one has to be a certain minimum or maximum size in order to sneak attack another size?

The problem is this line in the description of sneak attack:

The rogue must be able to see the target well enough to pick out a vital spot and must be able to reach such a spot.

EDIT: And yes, it's very DM-interpretation-dependent. I would probably rule in favor of the rogue in the Tiny-versus-Human argument, but it quickly becomes problematic.

[Wind d8/d12]

Hold Portal. The level 1 Instakill.

Maybe like "Hold Face Portal" and make an enemy suffocate? Uhm, or close up other orifices so that they eventually die of impaction. I don't like where this is going/went....

Shrink item on a necklace or enlarge a piercing?

[The Dark Fiddler]

The problem is this line in the description of sneak attack:

"I can reach his foot, can't I? I'm sure there's a vein or a muscle or something there that's 'vital'!" (My point being "vital" isn't well enough defined. I could see it being ruled that as long as you can hit someone, you can hit a vital spot.)

And besides, this is all a bit unrelated to the original Shrink the Halfling Rogue suggestion, because he'll still reach the groin, most likely. I'd like to see the DM that doesn't rule the groin as counting for a Sneak Attack vital spot.

[Vizzerdrix]

The problem is this line in the description of sneak attack:

Back of the knee. Heck, a sneak attack there should cause insta-prone.

[pres_man]

The problem is this line in the description of sneak attack:


EDIT: And yes, it's very DM-interpretation-dependent. I would probably rule in favor of the rogue in the Tiny-versus-Human argument, but it quickly becomes problematic.

Achilles tendon?

[Tyrmatt]

Hold Portal. The level 1 Instakill.

I think I got the point of this one. Owch :/ It also makes me think of numerous malicious tortures you can inflict on people with it.

To try to elaborate for others: Ever shut your finger/hand in a car door? Hurts like hell doesn't it?

[FMArthur]

Actually, I believe there is a feat somewhere to attack someone in that particular vital area... implying you cannot normally do it otherwise.

(I used to run into this issue all the time and didn't know how to handle it as a rookie-DM; after all, what happens when someone does a leap attack without Leap Attack?)

[penbed400]

Actually, I believe there is a feat somewhere to attack someone in that particular vital area... implying you cannot normally do it otherwise.

(I used to run into this issue all the time and didn't know how to handle it as a rookie-DM; after all, what happens when someone does a leap attack without Leap Attack?)

They take a -4 penalty to attack, the monster gets an AoO and there is no benefit other than that you looked cool doing it, maybe if you want you can get into a grapple? That's how I would handle it, I mean it would look cool if you suddenly dropped your weapon and tried to punch the monster in the face without Improved Unarmed Attack but...consequences.

[lsfreak]

They take a -4 penalty to attack, the monster gets an AoO and there is no benefit other than that you looked cool doing it, maybe if you want you can get into a grapple? That's how I would handle it, I mean it would look cool if you suddenly dropped your weapon and tried to punch the monster in the face without Improved Unarmed Attack but...consequences.

Actually, from higher ground you get a +1 to your attack. This includes jumping. No other rule-written benefits, though.

EDIT: And yes, there exists specific feats to attack Achilles' tendon areas. And can you still attack such a place on Gargantuan dragon? How about an aberration that still has discernible anatomy, but no legs to really speak of? Animals with enough legs that one leg out doesn't really hurt it?

[Foryn Gilnith]

If you make a Leap Attack without the feat, you just get to ignore some difficult terrain when you charge. Anyone can jump during a charge; only Leap Attackers get damages bonuses. I don't think you can time the jump in such a way that you get the +1 higher ground bonus, unless you have Spring Attack.

[Tyndmyr]

Inner legs/thighs typically have arteries that are extremely lethal if cut/ruptured.

I'd say that rogues would have to be very small indeed to be entirely unable to sneak attack something.

[Vizzerdrix]

Inner legs/thighs typically have arteries that are extremely lethal if cut/ruptured.

I'd say that rogues would have to be very small indeed to be entirely unable to sneak attack something.

The Femurals, I think. about as thick as your thumb and up near the groin.

[Siosilvar]

Is that non-standard? We get hit with that in low-level games all the time. Maybe I just have a DM that possesses the gleeful maliciousness of young children and cats.

Using it as an area-effect attack is. Hint: Metal has a crystalline structure, therefore technically a crystal.

Important parts:

Used as an area attack, shatter destroys nonmagical objects of crystal, glass, ceramic, or porcelain. All such objects within a 5-foot radius of the point of origin are smashed into dozens of pieces by the spell. Objects weighing more than 1 pound per your level are not affected, but all other objects of the appropriate composition are shattered.

Alternatively, you can target shatter against a single solid object, regardless of composition, weighing up to 10 pounds per caster level.

Most people would use the second paragraph against metal items.