Summon _______ III Extra Uses...

[quiet1mi]

Currently I am taking a backseat to the party during combat... I play a level 11 beguiler and get annoyed when the last guy has a large will save...

This is where Shadow Conjuration comes in... for a level 4 spell slot I can give an ally a fairly large bonus to hit or AC...

What you do is summon 1d4+1 Ravens... Ravens have a +6 to hit... summoning them on the opposite sides of an opponent means their to hit raises to +8...

lets just say you roll a 2 and summon 3 ravens... that is a +6 to hit for the party fighter! Throw in Flanking and that Bonus increases to +8 to Hit...

4 ravens can occupy the same square so with a few rounds of shadow conjuration (lets say 3) gives anyone +18 to hit (+20 with flanking) or to their AC... Against a single BBEG who is immune to the abilities of a beguiler that is HUGE!

My question is will this upset the combat balance of encounter?

[Foryn Gilnith]

This reminds me of nanobots. Except less abusive and less "nano". The DM may decide to cap Aid Another.

[dob]

I get the +2 for flanking, but how do the 3 ravens give the fighter +6?

[deuxhero]

Aid Another

[Andras]

I get the +2 for flanking, but how do the 3 ravens give the fighter +6?

I assume through Aid Another. Which is a pretty good use for it.

[Myou]

I get the +2 for flanking, but how do the 3 ravens give the fighter +6?

They all use the Aid Another action. http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/specialAttacks.htm

[Subotei]

My question is will this upset the combat balance of encounter?

Clever use of the spell, and would work well with the party rogue as well, obviously.

However there still is a will save to make if they interact with their target and I'd say this is the case, so if disbelieved would they have no effect? Or have only a 20% chance of aiding the attacker?

Also the spell range is quite limited so there is nothing to stop the target retreating etc and removing the effect.

What I think I'm trying to say is no - I don't think its unbalancing to an encounter.

[Kelb_Panthera]

Unfortunately, the ravens don't count for flanking, because as tiny creatures they don't threaten the space around them. The ravens might be able to give him a total of +6 by entering the enemy's space, depending on what your DM has to say about the number of tiny and medium creatures that can occupy the same space, but in doing so they'll provoke AoO's against themselves, and if the enemy's made his save, they only have 1/5th of a ravens already pitiful hp's.

[quiet1mi]

Unfortunately, the ravens don't count for flanking, because as tiny creatures they don't threaten the space around them. The ravens might be able to give him a total of +6 by entering the enemy's space, depending on what your DM has to say about the number of tiny and medium creatures that can occupy the same space, but in doing so they'll provoke AoO's against themselves, and if the enemy's made his save, they only have 1/5th of a ravens already pitiful hp's.

1/5th of a ravens HP may be pitiful but then again using an AOO on a raven over the party rogue or fighter for getting back up seems silly... Furthermore, unless you have combat reflexes you only get 1 AOO... if you use it on a raven you may give the fighter a free pass at disarming you, bull-rushing you or even knocking you flat with a Trip...

I do not see how a will save is necessary... A raven is swooping in threatening to gouge out your eyes... I think that will provide the necessary distraction that warrants a +2... after all we are talking about using a 4th level spell slot on it with Shadow Conjuration...

Also could this be used to do other things like grab small items off people during a fight? I know that it will still provoke but my above reason still stands on why most people do not bother...

[Chrono22]

Try using a shadow conjuration fog cloud. If you have a means of secretly communicating to your allies that it isn't real, they should be able to make the will saves to overcome it. If they overcome it, they can see fine, while their enemies will be stumbling around and suffering miss chances. An added benefit, is that wind can't blow your shadow-fog cloud away.

[Kelb_Panthera]

1/5th of a ravens HP may be pitiful but then again using an AOO on a raven over the party rogue or fighter for getting back up seems silly... Furthermore, unless you have combat reflexes you only get 1 AOO... if you use it on a raven you may give the fighter a free pass at disarming you, bull-rushing you or even knocking you flat with a Trip...

I do not see how a will save is necessary... A raven is swooping in threatening to gouge out your eyes... I think that will provide the necessary distraction that warrants a +2... after all we are talking about using a 4th level spell slot on it with Shadow Conjuration...

Also could this be used to do other things like grab small items off people during a fight? I know that it will still provoke but my above reason still stands on why most people do not bother...

What you've said is correct, but Combat reflexes is actually one of the more common feats you see in fighter types, especially lock-down builds. The will save is to realize that the birds aren't real, which, should you realize it, you can communicate to someone on your team who then gets to roll his save with a bonus, and promptly takes them out because they're spun-sugar fragile. Besides, if you've got them after the guy w/ the good will save, he probably has the (admittedly sub-optimal) option of simply nuking himself and his immediate area with an AoE spell.

[quiet1mi]

soo... 1/5 of 1 hit point?

Nuking himself is an option provided I did not ready myself to counter it with dispel magic...