Summons? [3.5]

[RagnaroksChosen]

Is there a way to get all summon spells onto one list?
those summons would be:
summon monster 1-9
summon natures ally 1-9
summon undead
summon swarm
I think there is another one...
summon elemental monilith?

Doesn't matter what full caster(no manifesters) you use. any sources cept UA.
The other condition is you must be able to memorise or cast then in normal slots... so domain slots don't count..
bonus points if you can get them all spontanious as well.(spontanious like a druids SNA)

Edit:

Add Summon desert ally and the forstburn equivelent...

What im looking for is to get all the spells with summon X on it in one spell list that can eaither be spontaniously cast or cast through a regular spell slot.

[Sstoopidtallkid]

Archivist, though he doesn't get Spont casting.

[RagnaroksChosen]

bagh forgot about archavist...
Can he get the summon undead though ? I can't remember if thats divine or arcane or both...

if thats the case though
Rules amended no archivist.

[Optimystik]

Spell-to-Power Erudite as well, coupled with the cheesier ways of making divine spells arcane.

[RagnaroksChosen]

hmm... thats lame...


Edit:
Now that i think of it erudite wouldn't count isn't that using a variant rule? the spells to power?

[Optimystik]

Edit:
Now that i think of it erudite wouldn't count isn't that using a variant rule? the spells to power?

Doesn't matter what full caster you use. any sources cept UA.

"Doesn't matter" and "Any sources" imply variants are allowed.

[RagnaroksChosen]

true... well then are there any other ways?

[Fruchtkracher]

is there really a summon undead from 6th level on? if so in which book?
just asking 'cause I really dislike the way it stops at SU V in Complete Arcane...

[RagnaroksChosen]

is there really a summon undead from 6th level on? if so in which book?
just asking 'cause I really dislike the way it stops at SU V in Complete Arcane...

ic ould stop at that level... I honestly don't remember

I know its int eh Spell compendium.

[Grumman]

A Wizard or Sorcerer with a dip in Sand Shaper and the Arcane Disciple (Animal Domain) gets Summon Monster, Summon Desert Ally and Summon Undead, and Summon Nature's Ally 4 and 8 (which can of course be used to summon from the lower level lists, too).

[RagnaroksChosen]

A Wizard or Sorcerer with a dip in Sand Shaper and the Arcane Disciple (Animal Domain) gets Summon Monster, Summon Desert Ally and Summon Undead, and Summon Nature's Ally 4 and 8 (which can of course be used to summon from the lower level lists, too).

could you then use the feat spontanious natures ally to cast the rest of them?

[Grumman]

could you then use the feat spontanious natures ally to cast the rest of them?

No, it only lets you spontaneously cast the ones on your class spell list. Since they aren't on your class spell list, it doesn't help.

[Vizzerdrix]

Is there a way to get all summon spells onto one list?

Doesn't matter what full caster(no manifesters) you use. any sources cept UA.

What im looking for is to get all the spells with summon X on it in one spell list that can eaither be spontaniously cast or cast through a regular spell slot.

No UA means you'll have to jump through hoops, as the UA Generic Caster can have all of them with ease, do it spontaneously, and pick up some extra feats on the side.

[RagnaroksChosen]

No UA means you'll have to jump through hoops, as the UA Generic Caster can have all of them with ease, do it spontaneously, and pick up some extra feats on the side.

thats what im trying to figure out is those hoops.

[Optimystik]

is there really a summon undead from 6th level on? if so in which book?
just asking 'cause I really dislike the way it stops at SU V in Complete Arcane...

It only goes up to V in SpC. Perhaps WotC thought powerful undead should be left to the Necromancers?

Regardless, you could always research your own (if a wiz/sorc), using the existing monsters as a guide for the lists.

thats what im trying to figure out is those hoops.

Why? What exactly are you trying to do? Because Archivist seems like the best answer to your question.

[Lapak]

Not sure how to achieve your goal, but you also need to add Summon Golem to your list if you want it to be complete.

[Optimystik]

Not to mention Astral Construct, and the specific outsider line (Summon Kolaryut etc.)

[Godskook]

Doesn't matter what full caster(no manifesters) you use. any sources cept UA.

bagh forgot about archavist...
Can he get the summon undead though ? I can't remember if thats divine or arcane or both...

if thats the case though
Rules amended no archivist.

Um, what is it you want, exactly, cause quote 1 and 2 here contradict(Archivist is a full-caster that isn't from UA and isn't a manifester).

As far as being able to cast the spontaneously, there's the feat Signature Spell(PGF, iirc) that allows you to convert spells in a way similar to a cleric. Problem is, it is expensive, at only one spell per feat(So, with 9 SM spells, 9 SNA spells, plus others, that's 20+ feats to take).

Mage of the Arcane Order will let you cast up to SNA VI(Savage Bard) and anything else that's arcane, albeit rather slowly(2 full round actions, total). But it doesn't get spells on your spell list, so no way to combine it with signature spell.

[RagnaroksChosen]

Um, what is it you want, exactly, cause quote 1 and 2 here contradict(Archivist is a full-caster that isn't from UA and isn't a manifester).

As far as being able to cast the spontaneously, there's the feat Signature Spell(PGF, iirc) that allows you to convert spells in a way similar to a cleric. Problem is, it is expensive, at only one spell per feat(So, with 9 SM spells, 9 SNA spells, plus others, that's 20+ feats to take).

Mage of the Arcane Order will let you cast up to SNA VI(Savage Bard) and anything else that's arcane, albeit rather slowly(2 full round actions, total). But it doesn't get spells on your spell list, so no way to combine it with signature spell.

Ok hmm i guess i have gotten off track a bit, serves me right for trying to type it up during my 15 minute break. I'm looking for ways to expand full casters from core, and completes to have all the summon spells on them...
So i meen idealy like a wizard with the summon monster 1-9, SNA 1-9, sumon undead, elemental monelith, sumon swarm, etc.. though if there is an easyer way with a wujen or sorcerer that is fine..
I agree that archavist/erudite is the best way to do it.. but are there any others?

[RagnaroksChosen]

Not to mention Astral Construct, and the specific outsider line (Summon Kolaryut etc.)

Im specificaly leaving out astral construct... as it is not a summon X spell its astral construct, though if you can work it in thats more bonus points for you sir. though you do bring up a good point i belive there are some realy random summon's that i didn't mention...

Archavist is a good solution the main reason i don't want to use it is 99% of the groups i play with don't allow heros of horror or erudite or UA

[Penitent]

Tome Summoner.

[Vizzerdrix]

Tome Summoner.

From what book?

[Kobold-Bard]

Homebrew, but Arguskos' Summoner is exactly what you seem to want (Post #3)

[RagnaroksChosen]

Homebrew, but Arguskos' Summoner is exactly what you seem to want (Post #3)

that seems a tad powerfull.

[Kobold-Bard]

that seems a tad powerfull.

Perhaps. I'm crap at homebrew, I just like them.

[drengnikrafe]

I was always under the impression that summoning (mini)hordes of monsters was among the weakest things that a wizard could do.

In any case, it's still theoretically viable to present to your DM, and he can take out things as he sees fit.

[RagnaroksChosen]

I was always under the impression that summoning (mini)hordes of monsters was among the weakest things that a wizard could do.

In any case, it's still theoretically viable to present to your DM, and he can take out things as he sees fit.

I agree... I wish i didn't have such lazy gms... they would just reject the whole thing... if they would even look at it as it is homebrew.

[Kobold-Bard]

I was always under the impression that summoning (mini)hordes of monsters was among the weakest things that a wizard could do.

In any case, it's still theoretically viable to present to your DM, and he can take out things as he sees fit.

They remove the need for melee-ers because they're expendable meatbags.
They remove the need for trap-monkeys because they're expendable meatbags.
Different Summons have all kinds of very high skill ranks you can make use of.
Summon Nature's Ally lets you Summon Unicorns for healing ()

If done right it makes the party truly obsolete.

[RagnaroksChosen]

They remove the need for melee-ers because they're expendable meatbags.
They remove the need for trap-monkeys because they're expendable meatbags.
Different Summons have all kinds of very high skill ranks you can make use of.
Summon Nature's Ally lets you Summon Unicorns for healing ()

If done right it makes the party truly obsolete.

summon monster creatures have SLA's that are nice and add versitility

[Optimystik]

I was always under the impression that summoning (mini)hordes of monsters was among the weakest things that a wizard could do.

Out of the box, summoning is weak because a) it takes a full-round action, which screams "Disrupt me!" and b) generally, everything you can summon is under-CR'ed.

A dedicated summoner can surpass all of these limitations. Rapid Summoning, Rapid Spell, Augment Summoning, Greenbound Summoning, and many prestige classes make summoning worthwhile.