Gestalt Incarnum and Wildshaping (3.5)

[Thalnawr]

One of the games I'm in suffered a TPK, and for the next group, our GM has decided to use the gestalt rules.

I'm considering playing a shapeshift druid//totemist, and I'm unsure of how soulmelds and the shapeshifting are supposed to interact by RAW. Do I still gain the benefits of the soulmelds while shifted, or do they cease to function during that time?

[Dusk Eclipse]

I am not sure but my guess is the are still working even if you bind them to your chakras

[Blackfang108]

One of the games I'm in suffered a TPK, and for the next group, our GM has decided to use the gestalt rules.

I'm considering playing a shapeshift druid//totemist, and I'm unsure of how soulmelds and the shapeshifting are supposed to interact by RAW. Do I still gain the benefits of the soulmelds while shifted, or do they cease to function during that time?

That deepnds on which chakras your Shaped form has.

Read the beginning of the Monsters Chapter in Magic of Incarnum for more information on what has what chakras.

Essentially, if you've got 4 limbs, or 2 limbs and a bottom, you're good.

I would likely rule that melds for chakras you don't currently have would act as if supressed, but ask your DM.

[Thalnawr]

That deepnds on which chakras your Shaped form has.

Read the beginning of the Monsters Chapter in Magic of Incarnum for more information on what has what chakras.

Essentially, if you've got 4 limbs, or 2 limbs and a bottom, you're good.

I would likely rule that melds for chakras you don't currently have would act as if supressed, but ask your DM.

Hmm, very good points, and now that I've dug through my MoI, it explains it in fairly good detail, including how soulmelds interact with polymorph.

[Blackfang108]

Hmm, very good points, and now that I've dug through my MoI, it explains it in fairly good detail, including how soulmelds interact with polymorph.

And that's why I love Incarnum. You may need someone to point you in the right direction, but the answers are always there.

[flabort]

Problem solved already?

Well, I'm useless anyways, not knowing what a soulmend or incarnum is, so that's probably a good thing. Polymorph, I do know about though. Druids turn into t-rexes whenever theywant, right?

[Person_Man]

Be sure to take the Share Incarnum feat so that your Animal Companion gets the benefits of all of your soulmelds as long as it stays within 5 ft. Why have 1 super awesome tank capable of doing everything, when you can have 2?

Also, I would suggest Incarnate rather then Totemist. Gestalt solves the Incarnate's BAB and Skill list problem. The Incarnate gets more essentia, a better essentia capacity, and better peripheral class features (Incarnum Radiance). Also, the Totemist specializes in getting a ton of natural attacks, but that's already taken care of by Wild Shape.

[Keld Denar]

Yea, but you could get MOAR natural attacks with Totemist. Why claw/claw/bite when you can claw/claw/claw/claw/claw/bite/gore/gore/tenticle/tenticle/rend/etc?

Then you just need something to add some bonus damage per hit (like Knowledge Devotion, etc) and be a frezied whirlwind of limbs and teeth!

[Thalnawr]

Be sure to take the Share Incarnum feat so that your Animal Companion gets the benefits of all of your soulmelds as long as it stays within 5 ft. Why have 1 super awesome tank capable of doing everything, when you can have 2?

Also, I would suggest Incarnate rather then Totemist. Gestalt solves the Incarnate's BAB and Skill list problem. The Incarnate gets more essentia, a better essentia capacity, and better peripheral class features (Incarnum Radiance). Also, the Totemist specializes in getting a ton of natural attacks, but that's already taken care of by Wild Shape.

Perhaps, but I'm taking the shapeshift variant from the PHB2, so no companion. My first build idea did have Share Soulmeld and Companion Spellbond from PHB2, but I decided on the shapeshift variant instead, to try not to completely overshadow the other 2 players. Neither of them are really all that good at optimization.

As far as Incarnate vs Totemist, Totemist just fits the concept of a tundra shaman-ish character on his first vision quest better.

[Person_Man]

Perhaps, but I'm taking the shapeshift variant from the PHB2, so no companion. My first build idea did have Share Soulmeld and Companion Spellbond from PHB2, but I decided on the shapeshift variant instead, to try not to completely overshadow the other 2 players. Neither of them are really all that good at optimization.

As far as Incarnate vs Totemist, Totemist just fits the concept of a tundra shaman-ish character on his first vision quest better.

Fair enough. What level will you be playing at, and are you allowed Dragon Magic, online, and/or Dragon Magazine soulmelds?

[Thalnawr]

Fair enough. What level will you be playing at, and are you allowed Dragon Magic, online, and/or Dragon Magazine soulmelds?

Starting at level 1. No Dragon Magazine or online, but I could use Dragon Magic. I'd have to have the dragonblood subtype to use those, right?

[flabort]

Ok, could somebody explain what incarnum is, now?
And this argument over totemist/incarnate doesn't make any sense, because isn't totemist a barbarian variant?

[Keld Denar]

Incarnum is an alternate rule system rolled out in the book Magic of Incarnum. Basically, its magic that binds the energy of ambient souls around you into "magic items". You'd have to read to book to really get the gist of it, its kinda complicated, oft labeled as one of the most complicated rules supliments in the game.

And yea, Totemist is a new base 20 level class, along with Incarnate and Soulborn. Totem Barbarians and Spirit-Totem Barbarians have nothing to do with it, well, except the Totem Rager PrC (also in MoI) which is a Totemist/Barbarian mix class.

[Blackfang108]

Ok, could somebody explain what incarnum is, now?
And this argument over totemist/incarnate doesn't make any sense, because isn't totemist a barbarian variant?

No. It's a base class from Magic of Incarnum. A 3.5 Splatbook published by WotC.

...

Shouts: SINFIRE! WE NEED YOU!

[sofawall]

Ok, could somebody explain what incarnum is, now?
And this argument over totemist/incarnate doesn't make any sense, because isn't totemist a barbarian variant?

Google tells all.

[Person_Man]

Starting at level 1. No Dragon Magazine or online, but I could use Dragon Magic. I'd have to have the dragonblood subtype to use those, right?

Dragon Magic soulmelds. Yes, you need to be dragon blooded to use them. This requires one feat, or you can be any of the dozen or so draconic races. I suggest variant Kobold (free claw/claw/bite and Slight Build) or Dragonborn Mongrelfolk (for a total of +6 Con).

For 1st level (no chakra bind) consider shaping Rage Claws (super Diehard), Claws of the Wyrm (claws, if you're not a kolbold), Dragon Tail (tail attack), or Wormtail Belt (boost to Natural Armor).

For 2nd level (Totem chakra bind) consider shaping and binding:

• Dragonfire Mask or Dread Carapace: Fear is uber at low levels if you can find any stacking effect).
• Frost Helm: Area of effect Stun attack, lasts 1d4 rounds.
• Girillion Arms: 4 claws, useful if you're not a kobold.
• Gorgon Mask: Trample is surprisingly effective at low levels if you can get Enlarge Person or something similar from any source.
• Heart of Fire: Bonus Fire damage to ALL natural attacks.
• Basalisk Mask: Flesh to Stone, lasts 1 round, have someone else Sunder.

Once you hit 6th level and get your 2nd chakra bind, drop the "caster" like soulmelds and switch over to the standard Druid//Totemist tactic of having a million natural attacks.

For your feat, take Improved Unarmed Strike. Unarmed Strikes include kicks, head butts, etc, so you can make your normal attack routine and your natural attacks without missing out on any claw damage. You might also want the Extra Essentia feat and/or the Shape Soulmeld feat for access to choice Incarnate or Soulborn soulmelds. And obviously, you'll want Multiattack. I can't recall if you'll need Natural Spell for the variant you're using, but if you do, it's another obvious choice.

[Thalnawr]

I guess I should have mentioned it earlier, but I do really need to be able to pass myself off as near to human as possible, or risk being lynched due to the setting specific fluff. It's going to end up being a fairly low-magic game, in that spellcasting will force corruption and insanity checks, as well.

Currently, I've got an Azurin, with 1 flaw, for a total of 3 feats. I suppose one of them could end up being Dragontouched, but the setting may not allow that as an immediate option.

[Blackfang108]

I guess I should have mentioned it earlier, but I do really need to be able to pass myself off as near to human as possible, or risk being lynched due to the setting specific fluff. It's going to end up being a fairly low-magic game, in that spellcasting will force corruption and insanity checks, as well.

Currently, I've got an Azurin, with 1 flaw, for a total of 3 feats. I suppose one of them could end up being Dragontouched, but the setting may not allow that as an immediate option.

Well, Azurin essentially IS Human, sortof. So on that side, you should be ok.

Maybe a few ranks in bluff, but, you're humanoid(Human, Incarnum), so you should be fine on that side. Rilkan would be easy enough, too. Skarn, rather harder.

[Person_Man]

I guess I should have mentioned it earlier, but I do really need to be able to pass myself off as near to human as possible, or risk being lynched due to the setting specific fluff. It's going to end up being a fairly low-magic game, in that spellcasting will force corruption and insanity checks, as well.

Currently, I've got an Azurin, with 1 flaw, for a total of 3 feats. I suppose one of them could end up being Dragontouched, but the setting may not allow that as an immediate option.

Shaping a soulmeld creates a blue glowing thing (each soulmeld has it's own description) that floats above your chakra slot, and fuses with it when bound. Since you can only shape/bind soulmelds at the beginning of the day, I think it would be pretty much impossible to hide from people.

Now your DM could easily hand wave it away when you're not using it. But by RAW it's essentially impossible to hide.

[Blackfang108]

Shaping a soulmeld creates a blue glowing thing (each soulmeld has it's own description) that floats above your chakra slot, and fuses with it when bound. Since you can only shape/bind soulmelds at the beginning of the day, I think it would be pretty much impossible to hide from people.

Now your DM could easily hand wave it away when you're not using it. But by RAW it's essentially impossible to hide.

Keep in mind, also, most of your totemist Binds change how you look, too.

Sphinx claws sprout from your hands a la Wolverine when they're bound, IIRC.

When they aren't bound, they tend to look more like items than body modifications. Mostly. It really depends on the meld.

[Thalnawr]

I should be able to pass as human enough, for the most part. I may have to go with some of the less obvious melds for a while, until I've worked up enough trust with the locals, however.

[Blackfang108]

I should be able to pass as human enough, for the most part. I may have to go with some of the less obvious melds for a while, until I've worked up enough trust with the locals, however.

It's not so much Melded Soulmelds as it is BOUND soulmelds. Look at both of these descriptions to determine wether or not you think it'll cause any issues.

[Lapak]

I know you have solid reasons for going Totemist, but Incarnate soulmelds are also significantly less monster-y if the 'appearing human' thing is that important.

[Sinfire Titan]

No. It's a base class from Magic of Incarnum. A 3.5 Splatbook published by WotC.

...

Shouts: SINFIRE! WE NEED YOU!

What for? I'm on internet probation anyway, so I can't help much (because posting from a Wii is tedious).