OOTS #701 - The Discussion Thread

[Shreav]

Okay, so ...

1. The strip's title, "Curtains for You," would appear to foreshadow somebody's (Redcloak's?) death;
2. I can't imagine that they really needed the MitD's strength to open the curtains, so the stuff about him/her having more difficulty pulling than pushing is probably an intentional drop-in and not just humour; and
3. Does anybody want to count all the goblinoids to get an idea of the size of the army?

[Teddy]

Okay, so ...

3. Does anybody want to count all the goblinoids to get an idea of the size of the army?

I won't, but they should at least be ~20000, perhaps more if they've had a large immigration.

[Raging Gene Ray]

It was mentioned on the last page. I, too, assumed him to be a half-breed.

Maybe he's just a pasty nerd who spends most of his time in a dark basement away from the sun?

[Hardcore]

"The supreme leader" thing always BEGGED for this scene, but I never saw that until now.
What the One eyes speech is going to be I don't know but I AM going to compare it to the speech of the Union adress by Barak!

[One Skunk Todd]

I can't imagine Rich would have the elves attack while Redcloak is addressing them. A credible threat to this new Goblin city seems like one thing that might cause RC to disobey/rebel against Xykon. I can't imagine X caring if all the goblins die or AC falls to the elves.

I could see Rich either having Xykon wipe out most or all of the goblins just to spite RC or remind him who's in charge. Or more likely have the elves attack after they leave with RC none the wiser.

[Hardcore]

The situation is really up side down; he is a dictator, but for the "other" side this is how thing are expected to be! He is like their Obama! So, when he talk to his brother in the mirror, he can do it knowing he is doing the right thing, as he is going to make a speech in front of thousands of supporters!
just like these goblin approved of him when invading Azure City

[Elfich]

I don't anticipate seeing Red Cloak's speech. This thread arc is all about the Monster in the Darkness (MitD).

As we are watching the MitD, we get a chance to peak in on the rest of Team Evil. The next couple of updates will involve the MitD interacting with the other members of Team Evil so we can get a quick recap on the status Team Evil, both individually and as a group. So all the prime characters will stick their head in: Tsukiko, Red Cloak, Xykon. And we will see most or all of their supporting characters as well: Wights, Goblins, Jyrx (Red Cloak's immediate Aide). Each of those characters will put in their cameo for the episode and the MitD will move along.

Plus we'll get a group update: Snarl, Phylactery, World Domination, The Dark One.

One of two things will happen at the end of this arc: MitD finds the phylactery, MitD get's his scrying cast on O'Chul.

[Hardcore]

Good point. It can be so that this is just Rich's way to give us a 'short' status report on team evil, and then zoom in on some other group.

[ScottishDragon]

wow,that is ALOt of goblins,how is the order gonna kill them all?

[Water-Smurf]

Oh Redcloak. He's left justifying himself to a reflection of his brother.

I don't know what I want to happen anymore. I know that I want goblinkind to have equality, but how is that possible? Their war and hostile takeover has only started more hatred among the humans and elves, the same way the Dark One's overarching threat of war did. He's only repeating history.

Did he sacrifice everything for nothing? At this point, I think the utopia he dreamed of is impossible.

[SteveMB]

When he spoke into the mirror, which made the reflection look like the right, not the left eye was remaining, he spoke to

right-eye, and was apologizing for killing him, meanwhile, making it look like he had a good chance of making the death worthwhile.

I have a feeling that

Spoiler

Show

it's all leading to Redcloak ultimately realizing that, no, it wasn't worth it....

[Ancalagon]

Is it just my sight or did the quality of the comic improve?

[SteveMB]

I could see Rich either having Xykon wipe out most or all of the goblins just to spite RC or remind him who's in charge. Or more likely have the elves attack after they leave with RC none the wiser.

The latter seems more likely; so far all we've seen is a preliminary incursion force sent to like up with the Resistance and gather intel. It'll be a while yet before a full-scale battle to liberate the city can be undertaken.

Of course, if Azure City is re-conquered and the goblinoids slaughtered after Redcloak leaves, he's bound to find out eventually... the interesting question is how much he'd blame Xykon, and how much he'd blame himself.

[sombrastewart]

Maybe he's just a pasty nerd who spends most of his time in a dark basement away from the sun?

I can't help but shake the feeling that he's one of the elves under an Alter Self or something.

[Scarlet Knight]

Since no-one said this before: Has Redcloak maybe impregnated some Hobgoblin women? Does someone know about the goblin moral concept concerning reproduction?

The light-green goblin is a half-breed for sure, the rest of of the green ones might also be immigrated goblins, as others proposed.

"My brothers, verily for those who bled with me to take this city are my brothers. We few, we happy few; happy but too few. We need more goblins to ensure that this city will endure. Therefore let the word go forth that today is a day of procreation! Be fruitful and multiple! I will be personally recruiting top female goblins in my room from the front row with big ...ears"

[Criil]

The whole pull/push thing is likely a jab at 3.5's grapple rules. Pushing an object is a simple Bullrush with an opposed Strength check, while Pulling an object would involve initiating a Grapple, which is itself a complex action involving touch attacks, the opponent trying to figure out whether to use a move action with a grapple or a standard action with an escape artist check to escape, and rolling a lot of opposed grapple checks that The Monster probably would rather not have to deal with.
Plus with the target being a rope, it would likely get a synergy bonus to its escape artist check as the grapple would involve a rope, and The Monster doesn't want to look silly losing a grapple to a rope.

[Thrax]

Wow, Redcloak is going schizophrenic. Not good. I mean... not evil.

[infiniteviking]

Oooooooooooooooh. Redcloak talking to his mirror-image... chilling. And MitD is awesome as always.~ Good comic; I'm looking forward to seeing what that gathering is about!

[DabblerWizard]

I wonder what, will be worth it.

Oh ominous comic strips.

[TheBlackShadow]

Aaawwww.

LONG LIVE LORD REDCLOAK!!!

[the_tick_rules]

Couldn't the gobos have done it?

[Nilan8888]

Certainly a nice comic. There's more going on with Team Evil these days, it feels, than with OOTS.

A few thoughts/observations.

1. The green heads in the crowd: the other goblins have not been referenced (save one strip concerning the journey to the Oracle, I think) since the end of Durokan's dungeon. Was their presence meant to underscore the point that "the plan" ISN'T worth it? Meant as a visual cue to how he's already responsible for the death of so much of his own kind in order to serve it?

2. Whatever is coming in Redcloak's speech, it's probably going to be on something NEW. If not unexpected, then at least a particular turn of events. At least a week or so has passed since we've last seen Team Evil. There's been more than enough time to have speeches like this and carry out Xykon's standing orders as he gave them last time we saw these folks. It wouldn't make much sense to put this al together just for it to be a re-iteration of "everyone really try to find the phylactery".

3. While it does seem that it's unlikely for a team of 4 elves -- or while we're at it, even 100 teams of 4 elves -- to take on that crowd of thousands, it does bear thinking that this speech would probably be known well before it was given and that there's a strong possibility the resistance might try to use this to thier advantage. If there was something they wanted to steal, for instance, now might be the appropriate time.

4. Where is Xykon? Maybe I'm misremembering but it's been habit, it seems, to lead with Xykon when switching back to team evil -- probably becuase he's a popular character. But there's been 3 strips now with no sign of him other than visual or dialog cues, and it doesn't look like he'll necessarily be making an actual appearance in the next strip, either.

Is it possible that Xykon's being held back a few strips on purpose so as to make his appearance feel more significant? Maybe there'll be a surprise or two when we next see him?

[Asis]

For all the development that the gobbo races had, for all the justifications that Redcloak himself has (bad with a good cause) and for all the suffering that those races suffered at the hands of Humans and Xykon alike, all I'd do, if I were there, is to throw as many intensified fireballs as I can to the crowd.
I mean, they may be right, but they're still a danger to the other races and they're still living in a stolen land.

Does that make a short-sighted bigot?

[Conuly]

I mean, they may be right, but they're still a danger to the other races and they're still living in a stolen land.

Well, we could say that about a lot of people, both in the Stick-verse and in the real one (and in other fictional works as well), but that doesn't mean we really do get to kill everybody.

[Zxo]

Yay! Right-Eye appears in the comic, even if only as a mirror image...

I can't wait for the speech.

[cyan-shine]

Hahahaha the last panel is teh funny !

[factotum]

I agree with the previous posters: they've found the phylactery. Otherwise, they'd all be in the sewers. Reddy is about to give his farewell oration.

If they'd found the phylactery Redcloak would already be gone--Xykon said they'd be teleporting out 2 rounds after it was found! I can't imagine him wanting to give Redcloak the time for a rousing leaving speech before they go.

[Querzis]

I mean, they may be right, but they're still a danger to the other races and they're still living in a stolen land.

Or its the other way around, the humans are still a danger to all the monster races and they still wont let them have a land of their own. Dont get me wrong, I think Redcloak is a hypocrite whos totally delusional and very evil. But that only apply to him, I wont doom the entire goblin race just because of his actions. Right-eye was pretty much the most rational and peaceful guy in SoD. After all, unlike the paladins in SoD, the goblins at least have the decency to take prisonners. Redcloak is evil but as a whole, the goblins never did anything nasty that the humans had not already done to them.

[Elfey]

He talked to Right-eye in the mirror, didn't he?

"It'll all be worth it".

Who is he trying to convince, anyway? Right-eye, wherever he is? Or himself?

Right Eye and himself. Redcloak, or Left Eye, has sacrificed everything in life for the plan. EVERYTHING. He convinced himself it was worth it.

He's starting to lose it, I think, because now everything he looks in a mirror he sees his brother. That, combined with recent events, reminds him deeply of what it has cost him and how he's not even really in control of his own plan.

Oh and for the reference, I think it's more Peron inspired

[TheBlackShadow]

For all the development that the gobbo races had, for all the justifications that Redcloak himself has (bad with a good cause) and for all the suffering that those races suffered at the hands of Humans and Xykon alike, all I'd do, if I were there, is to throw as many intensified fireballs as I can to the crowd.
I mean, they may be right, but they're still a danger to the other races and they're still living in a stolen land.

Does that make a short-sighted bigot?

Hmm, you do make some good points here, and you do recognise the possibility that you might be wrong, so no offence, but personally I have a really hard time thinking of Redcloak and the International Pan-Goblinoid Emancipation League as Evil. I mean sure, they have slaughtered thousands of humans and enslaved the rest, but thats no worse than what the other races have been doing to them for a thousand years, and they ARE fighting for their own freedom against people who have treated them like excrement for centuries. Does that justify their actions? No, of course not, but it doesn't justify the actions of, say, the Sapphire Guard, either. Overall, they are no better than the other races themselves, so are they really Evil? Now Xykon - THAT is evil, because he causes wanton destruction for no purpose other than his own enjoyment, but Redcloak and the Goblins are, relatively speaking, at least, reasonable, with something not entirely unlike a good motivation.

Personally, rather than throwing fireballs at them, I'd prefer to find a way to help emancipate the Goblins and end the war as peacefully as possible, perhaps forcing a stalemate between the two sides and trying to convince the Goblins to relocate to somewhere worth living and giving back AC, while forcing the other races to recognise the Goblins as an equal sentient species in their own right.