Lots of Hellfire Warlocks (WIP)

[Barbarian MD]

Has anyone ever homebrewed Hellfire Warlock 4-10? I know there's all sorts of cheese with uncanny trickster and legacy champion or bloodlines, but I honestly think that's about the silliest thing I've ever heard of.

EDIT: This is a 5-level version of the Hellfire Warlock. The goal is to truly represent the idea of gaining a lot of power, quickly, in exchange for part of the character's life force.

• The entry level has been reduced to 6, rather than 10.
• Instead of providing a static increase to damage, which doesn't scale very well, we instead use modifiers to your existing Eldritch Blast.
• There is an incentive to not mitigate the Constitution damage by scaling the bonus damage to the damage that you're currently experiencing. So while you can legally use Naberius or a Strongheart Vest to mitigate it, you'll be limiting the full benefits of the class.
• The capstone is an Eldritch Blast Essence that bypasses SR. Vitriolic Blast does the same thing, but Acid Immunity negates the damage. This truly bypasses SR and resistances.
• Because the damage is advanced based on your Con damage, rather than a static increase by level, Bloodline/Legacy Champion cheese provides no benefit, aside from continuing to increase your invoker level. So you're better off returning to Warlock after taking Hellfire Warlock 5.

I'd love to hear your thoughts, particularly about balance and flavor. I'd also be particularly interested in people's opinions on ways that this might be abused, and whether it would be dangerous to allow this in combination with Eldritch Glaive.

Here's the latest iteration of this homebrew.

Hellfire Warlock

Entry requirements:
Skills: Intimidate 6 ranks, Knowledge (the planes) 8 ranks, Spellcraft 6 ranks.
Language: Infernal.
Warlock Invocation: Must know brimstone blast or hellrime blast.

{table]Level|Special|Invoking
1|Hellfire Blast, Fire Resistance 5|+1 level of existing invoking class
2|Hellfire Infusion, Fire Resistance 10|+1 level of existing invoking class
3|Hellfire Shield, Fire Resistance 20|+1 level of existing invoking class
4|Quick Burn, Immunity to Fire|+1 level of existing invoking class
5|Devastating Hellfire|+1 level of existing invoking class[/table]

Hellfire Blast (Sp): This is an Eldritch Blast Essence that you may apply to your eldritch blast. A hellfire blast deals your normal eldritch blast damage multipled by X (see chart below). If your blast hits multiple targets (for example, the eldritch chain or eldritch cone blast shape invocations), each target takes the extra damage. This damage is not fire damage. Hellfire burns hotter than any normal fire, as described in the sidebar on page 119. You may not apply any other Blast Essence to an Eldritch Blast with the Hellfire Essence applied.

Each time you use this ability, you take 1 point of Constitution damage. Because the diabolical forces behind the power of hellfire demand part of your essence in exchange for this granted power, if you do not have a Constitution score or are somehow immune to Constitution damage, you cannot use this ability. Soulmelds and Vestiges are legal ways in which to heal the Constitution damage. However, only 1 point of Constitution damage elicited by using Hellfire can be mitigated each round; if you pump 2 essentia points into a Strongheart Vest, it will still only mitigate 1 point this round, and 1 point the following round.

Special: If you have any ways of amplifying your Eldritch Blast, such as a Chausable of Fell Power, add this extra damage in before multiplying the damage by 2. This does not apply to damage from other sources, such as sneak attack, giant-felling/mage-slaying/etc.

Your Hellfire Pool equals the number of Constitution damage you are currently suffering from due to usage of Hellfire.
{table]Hellfire Pool|Extra Hellfire Damage
0|x2
2|x4
4|x6
6|x8
8|x10[/table]

Hellfire Infusion (Su): Starting at 2nd level, you can infuse magic items that you wield with the power of hellfire. Whenever you use a charged magic item (such as a wand or a staff), you can apply one of the following metamagic effects to your next use of the item: empower, enlarge, widen, or energy substitution. These effects work just like the metamagic feats of the same name (the Energy Substitution feat is described on page 79 of Complete Arcane). Using hellfire infusion is a swift action. You can use this ability a number of times per day equal to your Charisma modifier (minimum one). When you infuse an item with hellfire, it glows briefly with fiery symbols that are disturbing to look upon.

Hellfire Shield (Sp): Starting at 3rd level, you can call up hellfire to avenge yourself on your foes. Whenever someone directs a melee attack against you, you can, as an immediate action, cause Hellfire to leap from your body, striking that creature through their weapon. This blast deals damage equal to your eldritch blast (including bonus damage from the hellfire blast ability). This blast automatically strikes the target, which can attempt a Reflex saving throw for half damage (DC 10 + 1/2 your character level + your Cha modifier). This counts toward your allowed number of attacks of opportunity for this round, and cannot be used twice in the same round against the same creature (so you get one attack against Bob the Barbarian, as he full attacks you for three iterative attacks).

Each time you use this ability, you take 1 point of Constitution damage. Because the diabolical forces behind the power of hellfire demand part of your essence in exchange for this granted power, if you do not have a Constitution score or are somehow immune to Constitution damage, you cannot use this ability. Soulmelds and Vestiges are legal ways in which to heal the Constitution damage. However, only 1 point of Constitution damage elicited by using Hellfire can be healed each round.

Immunity to Fire (Ex): At 4th level, you become immune to fire damage.

Quick Burn (Sp): At 4th level, you may, rather than slowly working your way up the damage table, instead immediately skip to a higher damage tier. However, you pay the full Constitution damage price to reach it, and 1/4 of that Constitution damage takes the form of Constitution Drain.

Devastating Hellfire (Sp): At 5th level, any time you apply your Hellfire Blast Essence, it becomes Devastating Hellfire. Your Hellfire Blast gains many of the benefits of a Supernatural, rather than Spell-Like ability. It bypasses SR, cannot be dispelled or counterspelled, and cannot be disrupted. If your ranged attacks normally provoke attacks of opportunity, so does your Eldritch Blast, but the act of invoking a Hellfire Blast itself does not provoke an AoO. Your Hellfire Blast is still a SLA, however, which means that you may still apply metamagic-SLA feats to it.

Original Post

Spoiler

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A good point has been brought up, and that is that Hellfire Warlock is supposed to bring a lot of power, very quickly, at a cost. What's written below admittedly doesn't do that, and I'll hope to build on the suggestions sometime soon (probably tomorrow afternoon--big test tomorrow morning).

The original Hellfire Warlock is a great idea, but I feel like it fails to do what it's supposed to do. 6d6 damage truly isn't all that much (about 20), particularly when Eldritch Blast is only usable 1/round. And most people that play Hellfire Warlock bypass the Con damage soulmelding Strongheart Vest or binding the vestige Naberius.

Here's what I'm going to shoot for:
1) A short progression (5 levels-ish)
2) A lot of damage
3) A real cost for that extra damage. Incarnates/Binders can still heal the damage, but only 1 point/turn. So using a more powerful hellfire blast will actually cost you something. It will still be healed, but you won't be able to nova every turn.
4) Fire immunity at the end
5) It's been suggested to make the capstone and Eldritch Blast supernatural ability, rather than an SLA. That's a great idea, but it might be better to make that a homebrew of the Warlock itself. I'm not sure how that fits a strictly Hellfire Warlock idea. I'll give it some more thought.

Bottom line: Hellfire damage should be something that would be more properly called going Nova, rather than a measly 1 Con and 6d6 damage.

As to progressing Hellfire Blast, I was loathe to slow the progression 1-3, since anyone that's already playing a Hellfire Warlock would take a hit. However, I slowed the progression after 1-3, so that the end result is the equivalent of 1d6/level, for a total of 10d6 at the end. I know it's a little funky, but I didn't want to reduce any of the abilities from 1-3. With that said, I did cut the fire resistance, to make for an even progression towards immunity.

{table]Level|Special|Invoking
1|Hellfire blast +2d6|+1 level of existing invoking class
2|Hellfire blast +4d6, Hellfire Infusion, Resistance Fire 5|+1 level of existing invoking class
3|Hellfire blast +6d6, Hellfire Shield|+1 level of existing invoking class
4|Resistance Fire 10|+1 level of existing invoking class
5|Devastating Hellfire|+1 level of existing invoking class
6|Hellfire blast +8d6, Resistance Fire 15|+1 level of existing invoking class
7|Improved Hellfire Shield|+1 level of existing invoking class
8|Resistance Fire 20|+1 level of existing invoking class
9|Hellfire blast +10d6|+1 level of existing invoking class
10|Capstone, Immunity to Fire|+1 level of existing invoking class[/table]

Hellfire Blast (Sp)
Whenever you use your eldritch blast ability, you can change your eldritch blast into a hellfire blast. A hellfire blast deals your normal eldritch blast damage plus an extra 2d6 points of damage per class level. If your blast hits multiple targets (for example, the eldritch chain or eldritch cone blast shape invocations), each target takes the extra damage. This damage is not fire damage. Hellfire burns hotter than any normal fire, as described in the sidebar on page 119.

Each time you use this ability, you take 1 point of Constitution damage. Because the diabolical forces behind the power of hellfire demand part of your essence in exchange for this granted power, if you do not have a Constitution score or are somehow immune to Constitution damage, you cannot use this ability.

Invoking
At each level, you gain new invocations known, increased damage with eldritch blast, and an increase in invoker level as if you had also gained a level in the warlock class. You do not, however, gain any other benefit a character of that class would have gained.

Resistance to Fire(Ex)
At 2nd level, you gain resistance to fire 5. This resistance stacks with any resistance to fire you have gained from warlock class levels. This resistance also progresses every other level, with the end result being immunity to fire by level 20.

Hellfire Infusion (Su) Starting at 2nd level, you can infuse magic items that you wield with the power of hellfire. Whenever you use a charged magic item (such as a wand or a staff), you can apply one of the following metamagic effects to your next use of the item: empower, enlarge, widen, or energy substitution. These effects work just like the metamagic feats of the same name (the Energy Substitution feat is described on page 79 of Complete Arcane). Using hellfire infusion is a swift action. You can use this ability a number of times per day equal to your Charisma modifier (minimum one). When you infuse an item with hellfire, it glows briefly with fiery symbols that are disturbing to look upon.

Hellfire Shield (Sp)
Starting at 3rd level, you can call up hellfire to surround yourself with a protective barrier. Whenever someone directs a melee attack against you, you can, as an immediate action, aim a blast of hellfire at that creature. This blast deals damage equal to your eldritch blast (including bonus damage from the hellfire blast ability). This blast automatically strikes the target, which can attempt a Reflex saving throw for half damage (DC 10 + 1/2 your character level + your Cha modifier).

Each time you use this ability, you take 1 point of Constitution damage. Because the diabolical forces behind the power of hellfire demand part of your essence in exchange for this granted power, if you do not have a Constitution score or are somehow immune to Constitution damage, you cannot use this ability.

Devastating Hellfire
You may augment the power of your Hellfire by sacrificing even more of yourself. You may double the damage of your hellfire blast at the cost of an additional 2? Constitution damage. Any class or racial ability that heals or prevents constitution or ability damage (we're talking to you Binder/Incarnate) can only heal this damage at a rate of 1 per round.
Should there be a limit, like "You may use this ability 1/3-5 rounds?"

Improved Hellfire Shield
Whenever someone directs a melee attack against you, you can, as an immediate action, aim a blast of hellfire at that creature cause an explosion of hellfire to erupt from your body. This blast deals damage equal to your eldritch blast (including bonus damage from the hellfire blast ability). This blast automatically strikes all creatures within 30', which can attempt a Reflex saving throw for half damage (DC 10 + 1/2 your character level + your Cha modifier).

Capstone
At level 10, a Hellfire Warlock gains a capstone Blast Essence. By applying this Essence, his Eldritch Blast is treated as a Supernatural, rather than Spell-Like Ability. This Essence counts toward the normal limit of 1 that can be applied to any Eldritch Blast. He may apply an Eldritch Shape to a Supernatural blast. In addition, he may still apply any Metamagic SLA feats that he has to the blast.

*************************************

I'm pretty sure this is entering "overpowered" territory... But as I think about it, it might not be. A level 20 melee guy does something like 500-1000 damage per round, doesn't he?

Let's say you've got 20d6 damage at level 20 (with items)

You then use Devastating Blast for 3 Con damage. 40d6
You maximize it. 240 damage.
You quicken another one. 20d6.
You maximize it. 120 damage.

So, assuming your ranged touch attack succeeds, that's 360 damage at the cost of 3 Con at level 20 by going nova. That seems reasonable, right?

Other ideas? some sort of summon fiendish creature, immunity to fire, a way to twin your blasts?

[DracoDei]

My mathematician side begs you to just make it +(level+3)d6 to the blast for levels 3 and up... much smoother curve... might need to tweak a few of the other abilities (which I don't know enough about Warlocks to read) up or down 1 level each to compensate for this, but probably not even that.

[Hyooz]

The hellfire blast progression is really, really funky.

[Eldan]

For a 10-level class, I'd just do +1d6/level bonus damage.

[Barbarian MD]

Okay, fixed it. What about special abilities?

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Here's one for a Capstone:

Hellfire Mastery: At 10th level, a Hellfire Warlock becomes one with the energies of Hellfire. A Hellfire Blast is now considered to be a Supernatural, rather than a Spell-Like Ability. However, if using this option, no other eldritch essence invocations or blast shape invocations may be applied

[DracoDei]

Well, either that or add some more class abilities at levels 7 and/or higher (and probably one at 4 and/or 6)...

[Barbarian MD]

Here's one for a Capstone:

Hellfire Mastery: At 10th level, a Hellfire Warlock becomes one with the energies of Hellfire. A Hellfire Blast is now considered to be a Supernatural, rather than a Spell-Like Ability. However, if using this option, no other eldritch essence invocations or blast shape invocations may be applied

I don't get it. Aside from making your metamagic SLA feats useless, what does this do? I know i'm missing something here...

[Vaynor]

I'd spread out the Fire Resistance, perhaps 5 at level 2, then improving to 10 at level 4, 15 at level 6, 20 at level 8, then immunity at level 10.

I don't get it. Aside from making your metamagic SLA feats useless, what does this do? I know i'm missing something here...

Using a spell-like ability while threatened provokes attacks of opportunity. It is possible to make a Concentration check to use a spell-like ability defensively and avoid provoking an attack of opportunity. A spell-like ability can be disrupted just as a spell can be. Spell-like abilities are subject to spell resistance and to being dispelled by dispel magic. They do not function in areas where magic is suppressed or negated.

However, supernatural abilities do not provoke attacks of opportunity and never require Concentration checks.

Also the Hellfire Blast progression is still a bit weird, I think that +1d6/level would be a lot better as well as progressing at an even pace and not being too overpowered.

[JoshuaZ]

And as long as we get to have the mathematicians on the boards commenting: I'm deeply concerned that this makes the one level dip into binder to pick up Naberius even more tempting. That trick is moved now from pretty awesome to broken.

[Vaynor]

And as long as we get to have the mathematicians on the boards commenting: I'm deeply concerned that this makes the one level dip into binder to pick up Naberius even more tempting. That trick is moved now from pretty awesome to broken.

I think that maybe increasing the Constitution damage you receive when the hellfire blast damage reaches a certain point (perhaps at level 5) would help to solve this problem, but there's not really a good way to completely eliminate this problem as blocking all ability damage regeneration would ruin this class.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

I don't get it. Aside from making your metamagic SLA feats useless, what does this do? I know i'm missing something here...

Improvements of (Su) over (SLA):

1) Ignores SR
2) Unable to be Counterspelled
3) Doesn't provoke AoO
4) Unable to be disrupted
5) Unable to be Dispelled

So yea, it strips a bunch of ways to defend against it. The biggest one, however, is that it ignores SR and doesn't provoke AoO.

[Barbarian MD]

What about doing this:

1) slowing the progression after level 3

2) an option that allows you to take more con damage for more damage? Naberius only fixes 1 per round, so if you took 3 Con for a ton of damage, it'd cost you more.

That would create the same uber-powerful damage, but actually make it cost something. You could even prohibit the damage from being healed any faster than 1 per round.

[Barbarian MD]

I like the idea of making it supernatural, rather than spell-like, but I feel like the way you presented it might be a nerf.

Spell-like
Can apply metamagic (SLA) feats that you've taken up to this point
can apply blast essences and shapes (one of which surpasses SR anyway)
provokes an AoO (but by this point you're level 19, and you've invested enough in concentration that this shouldn't be a problem).

Supernatural
can't apply metamagic feats
can't be dispelled
ignores SR (but so does one blast shape)
doesn't provoke an AoO

I think that you lose more (namely, the essences and blast shapes) than you gain (can't be dispelled, and I suppose issues with mage slayers) from this as a capstone.

[Vaynor]

I like the idea of making it supernatural, rather than spell-like, but I feel like the way you presented it might be a nerf.

Spell-like
Can apply metamagic (SLA) feats that you've taken up to this point
can apply blast essences and shapes (one of which surpasses SR anyway)
provokes an AoO (but by this point you're level 19, and you've invested enough in concentration that this shouldn't be a problem).

Supernatural
can't apply metamagic feats
can't be dispelled
ignores SR (but so does one blast shape)
doesn't provoke an AoO

I think that you lose more (namely, the essences and blast shapes) than you gain (can't be dispelled, and I suppose issues with mage slayers) from this as a capstone.

True, but I think everyone who suggested it assumed you'd add in something that says that metamagic SLA feats, and blast essences/shapes may be added to it. Also, Concentration has nothing to do with provoking an AoO. True, you can still cast spells after taking damage from an AoO with a high Concentration mod, but you will still provoke AoO's when casting SLA's.

Edit: Why is the hellfire blast progression all weird again? It needs to be evenly distributed throughout the class. You got 2d6/level for the first three levels because those were the only levels available. You need to make it something like +1d6/level. You may not be as powerful at first, but there's no point in advancing this class to 10 levels if it's still top-heavy as all hell.

[lightningcat]

I originally read this capstone ability as a class specific blast essence that can only be applied to Hellfire Blasts. Which fits the flavor of a warlock-based prestige class.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

I like the idea of making it supernatural, rather than spell-like, but I feel like the way you presented it might be a nerf.

Spell-like
Can apply metamagic (SLA) feats that you've taken up to this point
can apply blast essences and shapes (one of which surpasses SR anyway)
provokes an AoO (but by this point you're level 19, and you've invested enough in concentration that this shouldn't be a problem).

Supernatural
can't apply metamagic feats
can't be dispelled
ignores SR (but so does one blast shape)
doesn't provoke an AoO

I think that you lose more (namely, the essences and blast shapes) than you gain (can't be dispelled, and I suppose issues with mage slayers) from this as a capstone.

Vitriolic Blast also changes the 'flavor' to Acid damage, which can then be resisted with Energy Resistance (Acid).

By turning it into a supernatural ability, with the 'flavor' still untyped, there is literally *NO* way to avoid or negate the damage. That's pretty huge.

Also, a Ring of Counterspells can't screw you over, nor any other 'reflect spell back on target' ability, which WILL affect SLA's, including Hellfire Blast, but will *NOT* work on (Su) abilities.

It also lets it affect golems, as it is no longer a spell effect.

[Barbarian MD]

Ah, now it becomes clear. Thanks for taking the time to explain that.

So, the capstone ability turns your eldritch blast into a supernatural ability, rather than a spell-like ability. Do we want to make that capstone an essence that can be applied? Would it be overpowered to still be able to apply a blast shape? I imagine we'd also want to add a caveat that you can still use SLA-metamagic feats.

How would people feel about reducing the entry requirements? As it stands, this can't be taken before 10th level. We could change the Hellfire Blast progression so that you don't gain 6d6 in the first three levels.

[Barbarian MD]

Current iteration in OP.

Spoiler

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So, we've got one progression, listed above, that I'm going to refer to as the original, and then here's another. You get faster entry into the class, quicker progression of the bonus features, but--ultimately--a weaker hellfire blast.

Which would be preferred? I'm tempted to say I'd rather go with quicker entry, in order to gain access to the special abilities.

Pre-requisites: same, but reduced to entry at level 5, rather than level 10.

{table]Level|Special|Invoking
1|Hellfire blast +1d6|+1 level of existing invoking class
2|Hellfire blast +2d6, Hellfire Infusion, Resistance Fire 5|+1 level of existing invoking class
3|Hellfire blast +3d6, Hellfire Shield|+1 level of existing invoking class
4|Resistance Fire 10|+1 level of existing invoking class
5|Devastating Hellfire, +4d6|+1 level of existing invoking class
6|Hellfire blast, Resistance Fire 15|+1 level of existing invoking class
7|Improved Hellfire Shield, +5d6|+1 level of existing invoking class
8|Resistance Fire 20|+1 level of existing invoking class
9|Hellfire blast +6d6|+1 level of existing invoking class
10|Capstone, Immunity to Fire|+1 level of existing invoking class[/table]


Level 5
Original: Warlock 5 = 3d6
New: Warlock 4/Hellfire 1 = 4d6

Level 10
Original: Warlock 9/Hellfire Warlock 1 = 7d6
New: Warlock 4/Hellfire Warlock 6 = 9d6

Level 15
Original: Warlock 9/Hellfire Warlock 6 = 15d6
New: Warlock 4/Hellfire Warlock 10/Warlock 1 = 13d6

Level 20
Warlock 9/Hellfire Warlock 10/Warlock 1 = 19d6
Warlock 4/Hellfire Warlock 10/Warlock 6 = 15d6

[DragoonWraith]

I feel like the entire point of the Hellfire Warlock was that it was a lot of power really quickly, but it was dangerous and there wasn't a lot of depth to it. This seems to be missing that point entirely.

[Barbarian MD]

Ah, now that's an interesting flavor idea that I hadn't thought of.

I think the trouble might be this, though: 6d6 doesn't really add for that much damage, at least in my experience, at least when you can only do it once per round. And everyone that plays with this class bypasses the Con damage with Binder/Incarnate levels anyway.

How do we capture the flavor that you're talking about--a LOT of dangerous power, but with an increased cost? That's why I liked Devastating Hellfire--the ability to double your damage at triple the Con cost, and no way to fix it immediately.

Would it work better as a 5-level PrC, then? Something that does get a lot of power quickly, but then we work to make the cost actually mean something?

[DragoonWraith]

5-level makes more sense, because then you can do the +2d6/level thing, which I think is important to the class. As for making the damage more reasonable, you do have to be careful. As written, using Hellfire Warlock would be very, very difficult - Con damage is extremely debilitating and natural healing takes an obscenely long time. It's hard to imagine the class without some way of mitigating it, but that eliminates the whole 'dangerous' thing.

Doing it as 10 levels would be fine, but only if you are willing to have 20d6 damage by the end of it, I think. Which, all things considered, is not that ridiculous, especially if the danger is unmitigatable. But slowing the progression really just seems to defeat the purpose of the class.

[Reaper_Monkey]

I've always used Hellfire Warlock for the nova aspect. Ee, if need calls for it, I can sacrifice some durability to reduce my enemies quickly to little more than cinders.

The changes you're proposing does undermine that. I wouldn't object to instead of increasing the base power of the Hellfire blast to instead offer greater versions of it which take more self damage to use.

Increasing the ability damage, especially Con, is a dangerous compromise to make. If you're concerned about it only being taken with the cheesy work-arounds which allow it to be used every round with no ill affect then specifically rewrite the damage so these no longer work.

At the risk of creating something way too powerful, perhaps use something like...

{table]Level|Special|Invoking
1|Hellfire blast +2d6|+1 level of existing invoking class
2|Hellfire blast +4d6, Hellfire Infusion, Resistance Fire 5|+1 level of existing invoking class
3|Hellfire blast +6d6, Hellfire Shield|+1 level of existing invoking class
4|Hellfire blast +8d6, Resistance Fire 10|+1 level of existing invoking class
5|Greater Hellfire blast +10d8|
6|Greater Hellfire blast +12d8, Resistance Fire 15|+1 level of existing invoking class
7|Greater Hellfire blast +14d8, Improved Hellfire Shield|+1 level of existing invoking class
8|Greater Hellfire blast +16d8, Resistance Fire 20|+1 level of existing invoking class
9|Greater Hellfire blast +18d8|+1 level of existing invoking class
10|Hellfire Incineration, Immunity to Fire|[/table]

Greater Hellfire Blast (Sp)
Works exactly like Hellfire Blast, except a Greater Hellfire Blast has a critical threat range of 18-20. It also costs 3 constitution damage and 2 strength damage to cast a greater hellfire blast rather than the usual 1 constitution damage of a regular hellfire blast. This ability does not replace your ability to cast regular hellfire blasts.

Hellfire Incineration (Sp)
Whenever you use your eldritch blast ability, you can change your eldritch blast into a hellfire incinerate. Any creature hit with an Hellfire Incinerate must make a fortitude save or instantly die leaving behind only a trace of fine dust. If the target(s) succeed their save, they take your normal eldritch blast damage plus an extra 20d10 damage, this damage is not fire damage. Hellfire burns hotter than any normal fire, as described in the sidebar on page 119.

Each time you use this ability, you take 6 point of Constitution damage and 4 points of Strength damage. Because the diabolical forces behind the power of hellfire demand part of your essence in exchange for this granted power, if you do not have a Constitution or Strength score or are somehow immune to Constitution or Strength damage, you cannot use this ability.

You may not use this ability or any of your hellfire blasts on the following turn after using this ability as the strain on your body is too great.

[Barbarian MD]

Okay, here's a complete reworking of Hellfire Warlock. Let's see what happens...

The goals are: make hellfire hurt your enemies. Make hellfire hurt you. Progress it quickly, since it's supposed to be a "sell your soul for enormous power" type thing.
************************************
Hellfire Warlock

Entry requirements:
Skills: Intimidate 6 ranks, Knowledge (the planes) 8 ranks, Spellcraft 6 ranks.
Language: Infernal.
Warlock Invocation: Must know brimstone blast or hellrime blast.

{table]Level|Special|Invoking
1|Hellfire Blast|+1 level of existing invoking class
2|Hellfire Infusion|+1 level of existing invoking class
3|Hellfire Shield|+1 level of existing invoking class
4|Immunity to Fire|+1 level of existing invoking class
5|Devastating Hellfire, Hellfire Wrath|+1 level of existing invoking class[/table]

Hellfire Blast (Sp): This is an Eldritch Blast Essence that you may apply to your eldritch blast. A hellfire blast deals your normal eldritch blast damage multipled by 2. If your blast hits multiple targets (for example, the eldritch chain or eldritch cone blast shape invocations), each target takes the extra damage. This damage is not fire damage. Hellfire burns hotter than any normal fire, as described in the sidebar on page 119. You may not apply any other Blast Essence to an Eldritch Blast with the Hellfire Essence applied.

Each time you use this ability, you take 1 point of Constitution damage. Because the diabolical forces behind the power of hellfire demand part of your essence in exchange for this granted power, if you do not have a Constitution score or are somehow immune to Constitution damage, you cannot use this ability. Soulmelds and Vestiges are legal ways in which to heal the Constitution damage. However, only 1 point of Constitution damage elicited by using Hellfire can be healed each round.

Special: If you have any ways of amplifying your Eldritch Blast, such as a Chausable of Fell Power, add this extra damage in before multiplying the damage by 2. This does not apply to damage from other sources, such as sneak attack, giant-felling/mage-slaying/etc.


Hellfire Infusion (Su): Starting at 2nd level, you can infuse magic items that you wield with the power of hellfire. Whenever you use a charged magic item (such as a wand or a staff), you can apply one of the following metamagic effects to your next use of the item: empower, enlarge, widen, or energy substitution. These effects work just like the metamagic feats of the same name (the Energy Substitution feat is described on page 79 of Complete Arcane). Using hellfire infusion is a swift action. You can use this ability a number of times per day equal to your Charisma modifier (minimum one). When you infuse an item with hellfire, it glows briefly with fiery symbols that are disturbing to look upon.

Hellfire Shield (Sp): Starting at 3rd level, you can call up hellfire to surround yourself with a protective barrier. Whenever someone directs a melee attack against you, you can, as an immediate action, cause Hellfire to leap from your body, striking that creature. This blast deals damage equal to your eldritch blast (including bonus damage from the hellfire blast ability). This blast automatically strikes the target, which can attempt a Reflex saving throw for half damage (DC 10 + 1/2 your character level + your Cha modifier).

Each time you use this ability, you take 1 point of Constitution damage. Because the diabolical forces behind the power of hellfire demand part of your essence in exchange for this granted power, if you do not have a Constitution score or are somehow immune to Constitution damage, you cannot use this ability. Soulmelds and Vestiges are legal ways in which to heal the Constitution damage. However, only 1 point of Constitution damage elicited by using Hellfire can be healed each round.

Immunity to Fire (Ex): At 4th level, you become immune to fire damage.

Devastating Hellfire (Sp): At 5th level, any time you apply your Hellfire Blast Essence, it becomes Devastating Hellfire. Your Hellfire Blast gains many of the benefits of a Supernatural, rather than Spell-Like ability. It bypasses SR, cannot be dispelled or counterspelled, and cannot be disrupted. If your ranged attacks normally provoke attacks of opportunity, so does your Eldritch Blast, but the act of invoking a Hellfire Blast itself does not provoke an AoO. Your Hellfire Blast is still a SLA, however, which means that you may still apply metamagic-SLA feats to it.

In addition, you may choose to amplify the effects of your Hellfire. By taking 3 points of Constitution damage, rather than the usual 1, you may triple the damage of your Eldritch Blast, rather than doubling it. As this is especially hard on your body, you may not triple your damage in this way more than once in 3 rounds.

Hellfire Wrath (Sp): Starting at 5th level, you can call up hellfire to surround yourself with a protective barrier. Whenever someone directs a melee attack against you, you can, as an immediate action, cause an eruption of hellfire to explode from your body. This blast deals damage equal to your eldritch blast (including bonus damage from the hellfire blast ability). This blast automatically strikes all creatures in squares adjacent to you, which can attempt a Reflex saving throw for half damage (DC 10 + 1/2 your character level + your Cha modifier).

Each time you use this ability, you take 3 points of Constitution damage. Because the diabolical forces behind the power of hellfire demand part of your essence in exchange for this granted power, if you do not have a Constitution score or are somehow immune to Constitution damage, you cannot use this ability. Soulmelds and Vestiges are legal ways in which to heal the Constitution damage. However, only 1 point of Constitution damage elicited by using Hellfire can be healed each round.

*********************************

Questions:
1) What are your thoughts: power-wise? concept-wise?
2) Would it be appropriate to add something with a Will Save for extended use of Hellfire, to better mechanically portray an inner struggle with demonic forces? Sort of like a vestige's influence on a Binder?
3) Would you recommend any changes to abilities, entry requirements, or have further feature suggestions?

[Reaper_Monkey]

Questions:
1) What are your thoughts: power-wise? concept-wise?
2) Would it be appropriate to add something with a Will Save for extended use of Hellfire, to better mechanically portray an inner struggle with demonic forces? Sort of like a vestige's influence on a Binder?
3) Would you recommend any changes to abilities, entry requirements, or have further feature suggestions?

1) For Devastating Hellfire I get to spend 300% the resource (my Con), for a 150% power boost? That seems a bit lame, I know its nova costed, but x3 in comparison to x2 isn't all that much when I'm still rolling.

For Hellfire Wrath, I like the idea. But, with "This blast automatically strikes all creatures in squares adjacent to you" which is inclusive of allies its a little underpar, even Eldritch Doom lets you choose who to hit when it goes off.
Also, for the cost (x3 that of shield which does the same damage) it wont be used unless you've got at least three enemies capable of hitting you on the following round, in which case its probably better to just flee than to take their attacks and the Con burn.

I like the purely doubling aspect of Hellfire Blast now though, it fits much better for the nova aspect.

2) I would say no, its a nice idea, but I personally feel it muddies the mechanics and makes the class even less appealing. You're already subjecting yourself to ability damage, it seems unfair to have the ability then also unpredictable and potentially fail you when you need it most.

3) I have a feeling your second question was purely proposed due to the ability damage healing that you have explicitly allowed, and thus allowing hellfire to be thrown out every round. I still disagree with this, imo hellfire warlock was never meant to be able to toss hellfire blasts every round unless death was imminent anyway. I know its limited to 1 a round, but to be fair this just prevents you from wanting to use the shield/wrath abilities (and puts you off even more from tapping into Devastating Hellfire).

Another option for the cost of using more potent hellfire moves is dealing Constitution Drain for its use. It wont heal back naturally and it'll take a little more to cure. Although as most hellfire warlocks who don't rely on work arounds so they can spam hellfire blasts carry around scrolls (and later wands) of Restoration which can still heal back drain from one ability score, this is no more damaging than ability damage other than preventing the slow heal should you be without your equipment.

I would like to see a literally nova ability however, something you could sink everything you had into if you so chose, something to use when you are on you're last legs and on your way out. Perhaps the following:

Improved Hellfire Blast (Sp): At 5th level, your Hellfire Blast improves, it now gains many of the benefits of a Supernatural, rather than Spell-Like ability. It bypasses SR, cannot be dispelled or counterspelled, and cannot be disrupted. If your ranged attacks normally provoke attacks of opportunity, so does your Eldritch Blast, but the act of invoking a Hellfire Blast itself does not provoke an AoO. Your Hellfire Blast is still a SLA, however, which means that you may still apply metamagic-SLA feats to it.

Devastating Hellfire (Sp): At 5th level you have mastered the arts of hellfire and can sacrifice more of your life force into producing even more lethal hellfire blasts.

Rather than paying the usual 1 Constitution damage when using your Hellfire Blast Essence, you may instead chose to take a number of ability drain to Constitution, Strength and Charisma (each) and multiply the damage of your normal Eldritch Blast by 2 plus that number. The Blast is also assumed to be automatically maximised, and widened and the ability drain happens after the blasts affects have resolved. You may only use this ability once per encounter. And no, this number cannot be 0!

Example: Morthos decides to make his Eldritch Blast attack into a Devastating Hellfire Blast, instead of paying the 1 Constitution damage of a regular Hellfire Blast he chooses to pay 8 ability drain to make it a Devastating Hellfire Blast. His normal Eldritch Blast does 5d6, this is multiplied by the amount of ability drain he is about to receive to each stat plus 2, so x10. His Blast will therefore deal 50d6 damage, but it is also maximised so he will deal 300 hellfire damage to each target affected by his blast. After the blast has resolved he takes 8 Constitution drain, 8 Strength drain and 8 Charisma drain. Should he have also chosen to use the Cone Shape, it would have been widened and therefore covered twice as much space as it normally would have.

(this is purely late night musings and I've not bothered to test the actual balance of this in anyway btw)

[Barbarian MD]

That seems insanely powerful, but it does come at a huge price. Does anyone else have an opinion on Reaper_Monkey's idea?


Wait, let me work this math out...

eldritch blast = 6d6
1 con damage = 12d6
3 con damage (my example) =18d6

vs.

24 drained ability points = 50d6 auto-maximized

However... you can't make a potion of restoration (4th level spell). So your only hope is a wand, which costs 26,000. Which you can use twice.

So you're paying pretty much every piece of gold you own to be able to nova twice, in order to deal 300 damage.

Alternatively, you can get a party cleric to cast Restoration on you 3 times.

I just don't know about this... It'd made for a pretty big moment of awesome for when the BBEG has killed all of your friends, you're surrounded by evil, and bleeding out, and then be able to give him a big screw you in the form of 300 damage on your way out the door, but I don't think it would ever get used aside from that...

[DragoonWraith]

What about abilities that scale based on how much Con damage you have already taken? So you are encouraged to not mitigate the damage?

[CTLC]

Hellfire requires level 9 as you need 12 in a know skill.
+6d6 is not a helluva lot of damage tbqh.
The one con would make this a useless class to me if not for my level of incarnate.
And so i doubt the worth of these brews when basically they spend their time Doing one of a few things; regretting the level you took due to the fact that using the ability is terribly damaging, or never using it and feeling like you wasted levels.
I think the class does need more damage output, but im not sure its worth it with so much damage, especially when there are multiple enemies, or when compared to other prcs. It is a very shallow prc, not much in the way of abilities aside from damage.
Basically, when i see my other options, i would simply not take these.
FYI, the devastating ability can be taken for 1 damage, and ignored completely by strongheart vest.

[Barbarian MD]

Now that's an exciting idea. So this way, you could still just double your damage each round and have it healed by Naberius, but you could build up to some pretty serious damage, if you were willing to risk your health and push yourself harder over the course of an encounter.

What would you suggest would be an appropriate scale?

Hellfire Blast does 1 Con damage.

{table]Con Damage Already Taken|Extra Damage
0|x2
-2|x4
-4|x6[/table]

So, a level 10 example:
Standard: 5d6
Hellfire Blast: 10d6 (take 10 damage from 1 Con)
Hellfire Blast: 10d6 (no further damage from 1 Con)
Hellfire Blast: 20d6 (take 10 more damage from 1 Con)
Hellfire Blast: 20d6 (take no further damage from 1 Con)
Hellfire Blast: 30d6 (take 10 more damage from 1 Con)
Hellfire Blast: 30d6 (take no more damage from 1 Con)

For a total of an extra 90d6 (240) damage for 30 damage to yourself, spread out over 6 rounds.

Or would that be too fast?

Alternately, you could progress it linearly (x2, x3, x4), giving you: 10,10,15,15,20,20 for an extra 60d6 (180) damage for 30 damage to yourself, spread over 6 rounds.

[DragoonWraith]

Unfortunately, I can't really help with the numbers; almost all of my D&D experience is below level 10, so I'm just not familiar with how the numbers at those levels are supposed to look.