3.5: Increasing Sorcerer's Spells Known

[Protecar]

Again, the title is pretty self-explanatory. I was thinking of being a sorcerer--but the amount of spells known is pretty scant for the class and I was wondering if there was a way around that.

The spontaneous casting is really appealing and I would like to try a class that can do that.

Thanks in advance.

[Flickerdart]

Mage of the Arcane Order will take some extra qualifying to get into, but it'll make you a versatile monster.

[magic9mushroom]

Play a Beholder Mage instead and get infinite spells known.

I jest. Seriously, Arcane Disciple or Extra Spell.

[gorfnab]

Rainbow Servant (CD)

[Fizban]

Normally I'd suggest Sand Shaper, but it has come to my attention that the Summon Deserty Ally spells suck, so most of that list is worthless. Fiend Blooded from Heroes of Horror is always good. Or Bloodline feats from Dragon Magazine.

[DementedFellow]

Sand Shaper PrC from Sandstorm gives some nice utility spells and it has a really neat capstone.

[arguskos]

Dragon #...330, I believe, has Knowstones. Each one holds a single spell that as long as you have the stone, you know and can cast normally.

[Saph]

Items are the best way to do it, once you have a decent amount of WBL to play with, and the Heritage feats help too. The 9th-level Sorcerer I'm currently playing has effectively 40 spells known - enough that it's pretty hard to remember them all.

[Draz74]

Rainbow Servant (CD)

Doesn't help. It just lets you pick spells known off the Cleric list; you're still limited to the same number of spells known as before.

Runestaves (Magic Item Compendium) are the best way to increase a Sorcerer's spells known, IMHO. Their 1/day-per-spell limitation is silly and annoying, but easily ignored; and other than that, they're quite well-balanced and thematic.

You could also look up a different spontaneous casting class, one that knows all of the spells on its list automatically (Beguiler, Warmage, Dread Necromancer), but all of them come with highly specialized spell lists, so I actually like Sorcerer better.

So yeah. I say just play a Sorcerer, with a Runestaff or two. And Knowstones if your DM allows them.

EDIT: Of course, you should also pick flexible spells. Never pick See Invisibility, for example, when Glitterdust has almost the same utility and doubles as an attack spell. Shadow Conjuration and, eventually, Greater Shadow Evocation are very nice options, and even with a small XP cost, Limited Wish is a tempting option.

[lvl 1 sharnian]

Runestaves (Magic Item Compendium) are the best way to increase a Sorcerer's spells known, IMHO. Their 1/day-per-spell limitation is silly and annoying, but easily ignored; and other than that, they're quite well-balanced and thematic.

So yeah. I say just play a Sorcerer, with a Runestaff or two. And Knowstones if your DM allows them.

Actually, you can have up to 3 spells 3/day per staff and their cast at your level. I remember I had a sorcerer with over 100 spells known at level 13 with these. (Ok, some of them were Sandshaper spells)

[Teron]

Dragon 330 has eleven or so Far Realm themed spells that you can learn by making a Knowledge (the Planes) check, spending a few thousand gold and sacrificing a point of Con. If memory serves, most of them are decent, and you can get more power out of them with a voluntary Will save at some risk to yourself.

[Protecar]

A lot of interesting responses I hadn't found on my own. Is there a way to access these dragon magazines online?

Also, where can I find these things:

Rainbow Servant
Arcane Disciple
Extra Spell

Thanks again to the replies, they are all appreciated!

[valadil]

Normally I'd suggest Sand Shaper, but it has come to my attention that the Summon Deserty Ally spells suck, so most of that list is worthless. Fiend Blooded from Heroes of Horror is always good. Or Bloodline feats from Dragon Magazine.

I'm a big fan of the Bloodline feats. They give you a preselected spell of each level. Usually there are two or three good spells per list. Keep in mind that the only prereq is a level 1 spontaneous caster, so they can expand your bard, duskblade, or beguiler lists too.

[arguskos]

I'm a big fan of the Bloodline feats. They give you a preselected spell of each level. Usually there are two or three good spells per list. Keep in mind that the only prereq is a level 1 spontaneous caster, so they can expand your bard, duskblade, or beguiler lists too.

The Bloodline feats were reprinted in Dragon Compendium, so no need to hunt through old Dragon magazines for them. If only Knowstones were too.

[Saph]

Actually, you can have up to 3 spells 3/day per staff and their cast at your level. I remember I had a sorcerer with over 100 spells known at level 13 with these. (Ok, some of them were Sandshaper spells)

You know you can only be attuned to one Runestaff at a time, right? Or did you miss that rule? :P

[Yuki Akuma]

A lot of interesting responses I hadn't found on my own. Is there a way to access these dragon magazines online?

Also, where can I find these things:

Rainbow Servant
Arcane Disciple
Extra Spell

Thanks again to the replies, they are all appreciated!

Those first two don't do anything. They expand your spell list, not your spells known.

[Draz74]

Also, where can I find these things:

Rainbow Servant

A PrC in Complete Divine, I believe.

Arcane Disciple

A feat in Complete Divine.

Extra Spell

A feat in Complete Arcane.

[Protecar]

Those first two don't do anything. They expand your spell list, not your spells known.

Awww... But now how am I gonna make a sorceror with extra spells?

Edit: Thanks Draz, does Extra Spell give another spell known?

[Chaelos]

Mage of the Arcane Order, while bearing significant limitations, essentially enables a sorcerer to cast anything he wants.

[holywhippet]

Mage of the Arcane Order will take some extra qualifying to get into, but it'll make you a versatile monster.

I've never been entirely sure about this prestige class. It says that your bonus for certain levels is to get an extra spell in your spellbook. Sorcerers don't use spellbooks.

[Chaelos]

It's certainly geared more for wizards, but there's a feat in Complete Arcane (Arcane Preparation) that allows a sorcerer to meet the essential requirements for the MotAO class just like a wizard.

EDIT: And, for reference's sake, MotAO is also from Complete Arcane, so this isn't some weird multi-source book cross-reference cheese.

[Yuki Akuma]

I've never been entirely sure about this prestige class. It says that your bonus for certain levels is to get an extra spell in your spellbook. Sorcerers don't use spellbooks.

Who cares? It gives you basically the entire Wizard/Sorcerer spell list as your spells known.

[JoshuaZ]

I've never been entirely sure about this prestige class. It says that your bonus for certain levels is to get an extra spell in your spellbook. Sorcerers don't use spellbooks.

Right, but if you've taken the feats that allows you to prepare spells from a spellbook (can someone remind wha they are) then you're ok. Moreover, what is really nice about Mage of the Arcane Order is the ability to get pretty close to any spell on the fly.

[Chaelos]

Also, I just looked the class up once again. There's expressly a line about "Spellcasters who do not use spellbooks" not getting the benefit of the "New Spells" added at some of the levels in this class; this implies that spontaneous casters are able to join the class and receive all other benefits from it.

[Yuki Akuma]

Also, I just looked the class up once again. There's expressly a line about "Spellcasters who do not use spellbooks" not getting the benefit of the "New Spells" added at some of the levels in this class; this implies that spontaneous casters are able to join the class and receive all other benefits from it.

Alternatively, prepared spellcasters who don't use spellbooks. There are a couple.

[Protecar]

Yeah, I've looked at MotAO but I was trying to make a sorcerer/binder/Anima Mage to give me some room to play around with different things(vestiges and spontaneous magic)--so I don't really have room for that prestige class.

Of course, I'm open to any suggestions though.

[JoshuaZ]

Yeah, I've looked at MotAO but I was trying to make a sorcerer/binder/Anima Mage to give me some room to play around with different things(vestiges and spontaneous magic)--so I don't really have room for that prestige class.

Of course, I'm open to any suggestions though.

That's a very strong build if well-played. If you pick your daily vestiges well you won't have much need for additional spells known.

[Protecar]

That's a very strong build if well-played. If you pick your daily vestiges well you won't have much need for additional spells known.

Bolded the key words. I'm pretty open to admitting that I'm far from an optimal player. I like to play with more fun little things like evocation spells(sometimes) and even leering at the vestiges for a while, they don't seem like they provide much synergy for what the sorcerer does.

Then again, what do I know? *shrug*

[Lysander]

What about carrying eternal wands of spells not on your spell list? It'd let you cast it twice daily.

[JoshuaZ]

Bolded the key words. I'm pretty open to admitting that I'm far from an optimal player. I like to play with more fun little things like evocation spells(sometimes) and even leering at the vestiges for a while, they don't seem like they provide much synergy for what the sorcerer does.

Then again, what do I know? *shrug*

Ok. In that case, you probably want the vestige (whose name I forget, it isn't in ToM but is in some official WoTC webpage) that allows you to summon monsters. That gives you a lot of fairly obvious on the fly tricks. After that, change your vestiges based on what you are expecting to fight. A lot of vestiges have abilities that specifically effect specific creature types or are obviously useful when dealing with specific creatures.