So You Want to Punch Out Cthulhu

[TheCountAlucard]

You don't really know how big a million is, because you've never counted to it.

Sez you.

[Admiral Squish]

Sez you.

Okay, so you've PROBABLY never counted to it.

Math people are all crazy anyways...

[magic9mushroom]

You KNOW you're tiny and insignificant, but you don't UNDERSTAND it. It's something you just can't grasp. You don't really know how big a million is, because you've never counted to it. You just generally know it's a big number. Same thing applies to a state. You've never really experienced just how big a state is. Same thing applies to the national, planetary, and cosmic scale.

Don't assume others' minds are as puny as yours.

[Satyr]

Well, the whole Mythos is pretty much based on the writings of two authors in the 1930s. The more stable one of the two committed suicide. The other one was H.P. Lovecraft.

Yes, it is one of the problems of the Mythos that Lovecraft and his copycats assumed that all peope share his specific issues and quirks. Yes, this leads to the problem that modern people are a lot more jaded than Lovecraft and his contemporaries. And Lovecraft had some... unique ideas about psychology, and how the human mind works which were already dated by the time he wrote his tales.
However, that is the basic assumption of how Mythos works; it is the setting-intriisic logic of the "Yog Sototheries". You are insignificant, and the moment of this revelation, you do not only know it, you internalize it, and thus, your mind shatters. This is how the setting works, it is not more a mirror of reality than Exalted is. You can either accept the premise, or you don't.



Remember, Lovecraft thought that old buildings were scary. I live in a town with a school which was founded by Charlemagne, and most of the inner city was built more than two hundred years ago (at least those parts of the inner city that are still standing). By the logic of Lovecraft, this is a very eerie area, but you know, the lots of bars and merrily drunk students are kind of an indicator that it is not that scary after all. You cannot take him too seriously, after all.

[magic9mushroom]

Remember, Lovecraft thought that old buildings were scary. I live in a town with a school which was founded by Charlemagne, and most of the inner city was built more than two hundred years ago (at least those parts of the inner city that are still standing). By the logic of Lovecraft, this is a very eerie area, but you know, the lots of bars and merrily drunk students are kind of an indicator that it is not that scary after all. You cannot take him too seriously, after all.

Old and sufficiently deserted buildings can be quite scary indeed, especially for kids. Far scarier, in general, than realising that you aren't the centre of the universe, or anywhere near it.

[potatocubed]

Failing that, I will throw 4chan at it.

Ooh. Savage.

[Satyr]

Yeah, and in a universe ruled by the Rule of Cool, people are occasionally raped to death by a giant undead albino gorilla on a motorcycle, because that certainly sounds cool to someone.
It's a part of the genre convention, and as such it must be regarded in context of its setting. In Lovecraft Universe, the uncarring universe is terrible to behold, and an old cowshed is creepy or outright vile. That doesn't mean that this is or is not a very realistc concept, or that it would make sense when you transfer it to the real world, but that is also true for almost every other fictional setting.

Besides, there is also another reason for why the mythos revelation is considered to be mind-shattering, but debating that one does not cope well with the forum's ban on religious debates.

[Greenish]

I have been informed that Narwhals, being the jedi of the sea, are capable of stopping Cthulhu. I suggest lots and lots of Narwhals. Heck, let's roll up a Narwhal Solar for Exalted and see what happens.

Curse you, Oracle, curse you! I had just had them narwhals out of my head!

The only thing left to do is to spread the misery!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ykwqXuMPsoc

Bwahahaa!!!!!!

[Starbuck_II]

Does that make the Ghostbusters Solar exalted? They beat him with lightning (lightning rod tower to focus it) + their busters.

[Kyeudo]

Does that make the Ghostbusters Solar exalted? They beat him with lightning (lightning rod tower to focus it) + their busters.

Oh, heaven's no! Those guys were a bunch of heroic mortals with Essence weapons. They just stunted well and got lucky.

A Solar would have lept off the building, karate chopped the marshmellow man in half with a single blow, run back up the building, and drop kicked Gozor the Gozarian into the next universe.

See, elder gods were what the Exalted were created to fight. They have Charms to defeat even the mightiest of attacks, Charms that perfectly shield their minds against outside influence, and Charms that can kill anything that can be killed. If it can't be killed, a Solar just hasn't tried hard enough yet.

Whatever the biggest elder god in the Cthulu Mythos is, he doesn't stand a chance against a Circle of Solars.

[BardicDuelist]

Summon Hellboy. He does this stuff on a regular basis. Oh, and tell him Cthulhu said he's going to bring about the end of the world. That always gets him going.

[LurkerInPlayground]

Nonsense, Cthulhu doesn't want to end the world. He just wants to enslave most of humanity and sacrifice the rest. Most humans will get to live on as Deep Ones.

[OverdrivePrime]

If nothing else works, I call in Squirrel Girl for help! Anyone who relies on squirrel-powers to beat Thanos, Dr. Doom, and motherlovin' Deadpool can probably mop the floor anything as all-powerful as Cthulhu.

[Tinydwarfman]

Can it withstand OVER 9000 damage? I choose you God of Smack/Ubercharger/Hulking Hurler!

[Pepz]

It's a part of the genre convention, and as such it must be regarded in context of its setting. In Lovecraft Universe, the uncarring universe is terrible to behold, and an old cowshed is creepy or outright vile. That doesn't mean that this is or is not a very realistc concept, or that it would make sense when you transfer it to the real world, but that is also true for almost every other fictional setting.

I hardly think that Lovecraft was scared of "old buildings" or vile cowsheds. What happened inside was always the factor. Horror of Redhook takes place in churches and old mansions, but it's the people killing, undead creating, daemonic cult that's supposed to be scary. Rats in the walls? It's an old house, but the curse brought upon the main character because of the sins of his ancestors is what finally strikes fear into the characters and the reader.

It's true that modern day readers are jaded. What was scary then, seems less scary now. Lovecraft talked about the dangers of technology advancing too quickly. These days technology is all around us, we have a feeling we understand most of what is going on, so it's not as scary. His stories often say "curiosity killed the cat", "some things are better left alone" and "beware of the unknown".

On another note, you tell us in an earlier post that Lovecraft co-created the cthulhu mythos with another author. Would you mind sharing the name of that author?

[Starbuck_II]

Whatever the biggest elder god in the Cthulu Mythos is, he doesn't stand a chance against a Circle of Solars.

Is the biggest god the force of life itself? Killing him sounds bad.
The blind idiot god of creation?

[Satyr]

And again, Cthulhu is a pushover and so far distanced from the true powers that he worships them. As a priest.
Do not confuse that comparable primitive creature, who still exists in a mostly physical form with the true powers. Cthulhu is only a billion years or so old. Azatoth and the outer gods are older than the universe itself (which exists only in the dreams of "that blind idiot god in the centre of the atomic chaos"). It is hinted that speaking the name of Azatoth alone could wipe out the whole solar system, because that would get its attention. Obvoiusly, he is blind, not deaf.

Learning too much about the Mythos leaves only two ways out: Become raging mad and commit suicide to forget what you have learned, or become raging mad and begin to worship them. There are virtualy no other ways to solve this.

And someone mentioned that the Exalted Universe is ruled by cool.If this is true, what kind of a chance does stand anyone of those agianst Cthulhu? I mean seriously? An exalted character? Cool? If there is any game that screams "I don't like my life and I need to be something special in my free time to cope with the fact that my life is mediocre, so I replay omnipotence fantasies", it's Exalted. That's not cool, that is a depressing mixture of embarassment and pity.
Cthulhu on the other hand has built a legend and some kind of a lore for eighty years by no, despite the fact that the creator was a hack with little talent for writing.

I got totally ninja'd on this one, so:

I hardly think that Lovecraft was scared of "old buildings" or vile cowsheds. What happened inside was always the factor. Horror of Redhook takes place in churches and old mansions, but it's the people killing, undead creating, daemonic cult that's supposed to be scary. Rats in the walls? It's an old house, but the curse brought upon the main character because of the sins of his ancestors is what finally strikes fear into the characters and the reader.

Unfortunately i can't find the quote in English, but there is one quote of him that compares different scarry settings and which ends with the solution that there is nothing scarrier than the old houses in New England. Ithink that it is the introductin to one story where the narrator on a hike meets a friendly cannibal. But, yes, according to Lovecraft, old buildings are scary. Especially when they are unusual in any way.

It's true that modern day readers are jaded. What was scary then, seems less scary now. Lovecraft talked about the dangers of technology advancing too quickly. These days technology is all around us, we have a feeling we understand most of what is going on, so it's not as scary. His stories often say "curiosity killed the cat", "some things are better left alone" and "beware of the unknown".

But that makes the story even less scarry nowadays. Besides, some of his stories also have such brilliant morals as "miscenegation creates bloodthirsty fish monsters" and "Distrust all noncomformists and foreigners, because they are evil" and not to forget "If they are not white, they are inferior" or "The swastika will protect you against evil powers".
Seriously, Lovecraft makes a lot more fun to read if you completely ignore anything he intended with his tales.

On another note, you tell us in an earlier post that Lovecraft co-created the cthulhu mythos with another author. Would you mind sharing the name of that author?

That's actually wrong, there were a few more writers than just the two, with a high degree of intertextuality. The classic cycle includes Lovecraft (as the most important author, Robert E. Howard (fun fact: any Conan story whatsoever is a part of the Mythos. These two settings are permanently linked, and some of the creatures were coproductions between Howard and Lovecraft), Robert Bloch, Clark Ashton Smith and August Derleth (who only really started it after Lovecraft's death ad who changed the original cope significantly from an amoral universe to the conflict between good and evil. He just didn't get the point.)

[Overshee]

And again, Cthulhu is a pushover and so far distanced from the true powers that he worships them. As a priest.
Do not confuse that comparable primitive creature, who still exists in a mostly physical form with the true powers. Cthulhu is only a billion years or so old. Azatoth and the outer gods are older than the universe itself (which exists only in the dreams of "that blind idiot god in the centre of the atomic chaos"). It is hinted that speaking the name of Azatoth alone could wipe out the whole solar system, because that would get its attention. Obvoiusly, he is blind, not deaf.

Learning too much about the Mythos leaves only two ways out: Become raging mad and commit suicide to forget what you have learned, or become raging mad and begin to worship them. There are virtualy no other ways to solve this.

And someone mentioned that the Exalted Universe is ruled by cool.If this is true, what kind of a chance does stand anyone of those agianst Cthulhu? I mean seriously?

Perfect mental defenses. They don't care how horrible Mythos is. They're cooler than that.

[Tiki Snakes]

Perfect mental defenses. They don't care how horrible Mythos is. They're cooler than that.

Realising this would, of course, shatter the Old Ones minds and drive them insane.

[Flickerdart]

Realising this would, of course, shatter the Old Ones minds and drive them insane.

They're already insane, though.

[The Rose Dragon]

They're already insane, though.

Are they? Or are their mental faculties so much different from ours that they appear insane to us, just like we must appear insane to them?

[Flickerdart]

Is there an appreciable difference?

[The Rose Dragon]

Is there an appreciable difference?

To us? No. To Exalts? Probably.

[chiasaur11]

Nonsense, Cthulhu doesn't want to end the world. He just wants to enslave most of humanity and sacrifice the rest. Most humans will get to live on as Deep Ones.

Fortunately, that also really pisses Hellboy off.

As for the insignificance thing?

Throw Zaphod Beeblebrox at them. He survived the total prospective vortex, after all.

[nyarlathotep]

Something of note real quick there isn't anything inherent about the Mythos that says there can't be Exalteds. As there is nothing saying that Elder Gods can't care about humans, just that none of the ones encountered so far do. After all humans can care about bugs and thus if an Elder God wanted to it could impart humans with the power to destroy its fellows. Hell it would be a lot like an Elder God version of PETA or ALF.

That being said Hellboy would do fine too.

[TheCountAlucard]

Throw Zaphod Beeblebrox at them. He survived the total prospective vortex, after all.

...in a self-contained "universe" that really was all about him.

[chiasaur11]

...in a self-contained "universe" that really was all about him.

Granted.

But it was a perfect simulation, and there's no proof, aside from a statement by one fellow, that the regular TPV would affect him differently.

And we can be sure either way that almost nothing short of the vortex could even begin to dent his ego. That'd be pretty fun to watch, actually.

[Pepz]

Ithink that it is the introductin to one story where the narrator on a hike meets a friendly cannibal. But, yes, according to Lovecraft, old buildings are scary. Especially when they are unusual in any way.

I can believe Lovecraft came to that conclusion. He wrote a lot of papers and spent a lot of time thinking about scary stories. They might have something to do with his nightmares as well. HP had nightmares just about every night, and they were the main inspiration for The Elder Ones and any other supernatural occurence in his stories. And what's scarier that to see those unnameable, eldritch monstrosities in your own New England home?

But that makes the story even less scarry nowadays. Besides, some of his stories also have such brilliant morals as "miscenegation creates bloodthirsty fish monsters" and "Distrust all noncomformists and foreigners, because they are evil" and not to forget "If they are not white, they are inferior" or "The swastika will protect you against evil powers".
Seriously, Lovecraft makes a lot more fun to read if you completely ignore anything he intended with his tales.

Once again, I agree with you, although you did carry it a bit too far. Lovecraft was a true blue racist, even more than was usual even around 1900. The Swastika, though, is a bit too much. Because of the meaning we give it today. Actually in the last part of his life, he came to see the errors of his way....sort of. If you read his later stories (mainly Mountains of Madness comes to mind), you'll find that there's a lot less racist remarks.

But yeah, his stories are funnier when you know that and keep it in mind.

That's actually wrong, there were a few more writers than just the two, with a high degree of intertextuality. The classic cycle includes Lovecraft (as the most important author, Robert E. Howard (fun fact: any Conan story whatsoever is a part of the Mythos. These two settings are permanently linked, and some of the creatures were coproductions between Howard and Lovecraft), Robert Bloch, Clark Ashton Smith and August Derleth (who only really started it after Lovecraft's death ad who changed the original cope significantly from an amoral universe to the conflict between good and evil. He just didn't get the point.)

Lovecraft actively cheered on anyone who wanted to make mention of the Elder Ones or the Necronomicon, just so it would have more meaning if an unknowing reader came across it.

The main reason I asked for the writer who suicided was because that was the reason for me to become interested in Lovecraft and consorts. It was quite a letdown for me when I found out that he didn't die of madness or suicide, but just disease.

AND ON-TOPIC!

I obviously agree with Satyr that a steamboat would easily take down Cthulhu, even if it's only temporary. Otherwise I'd just throw Yog-Sothoth or any of the Starheaded creatures in the ring. Millions of years in stasis in the arctic, capable of traversing space and resilient to basically anything?

Our little priest doesn't stand a chance!

[Deliverance]

Teach it to play Monopoly.

Depending on just how bad its aura of unadulterated eldritch horror is, this may require chain-catapulting gnomes capable of reciting the monopoly rules at it until it has learned enough of the rules to start playing. Being a creature of utter insanity, it will continue playing solitaire Monopoly forever and can safely be locked away in a can.

Some would say this is too cruel a fate to subject anyone to, and I have to agree in principle, but honestly, what do I care about the fate of big bad eldritch horrors?

[Iceforge]

In Soviet Russia, Cthulhu wants to punch YOU out