Balancing the Druid...

[Gnaritas]

Because i did not want full casters in my campaign (i have my reasons, this is not part of the discussion for this thread) i have made some alternative classes for the Wizard and Sorcerer. One who kind of combines the caster with a fighter, one with a rogue and one with a cleric. All a slower spellcasting progression (that of a Bard).

Now i also want to change the Cleric and Druid.
But i am a bit hesitant on the balance of what i am about to do with the druid.
He will have the Bard spellcasting progression (probably some more spells per day), and will lose Wildshape. I never like Wildshape anyway.

Instead he will have some Shapeshifting options, an amount equal to his class level - 1 (he gets none the 1st level).
All (or some) of these can be activated (or deactivated) with a swift action and they remain for as long as he wishes. Most of these will alter his appearance, but never hinder his spellcasting.

The shapeshift options to choose from are the following:
- Speed: Your base landspeed increases with 10 ft.
You can take this option more than once, but no more than 5 times.
- Skin: Your natural armor increases by 1.
You can take this option more than once, but no more than 5 times.
- Wings: You gain a Fly speed of 30 ft with average maneuvrability.
If you take this option a second time your maneuvrability becomes "Good".
If you take this option a third time your maneuvrability becomes "Perfect" and the speed increases to 40 ft.
- Scent: you gain the Scent ability as well as the track ability.
- Ability increase: Your STR, DEX or CON increases by 1.
You can take this option more than once, but no more than 4 times for each ability.
- Vision: You gain Low-Light vision. If you already have LLV you gain Darkvision 30 ft. If you already have DV30 your DV increase by 30 ft.
You can take this option more than once.
- Size: You gain powerfull build. If you have powerfull build, your size increases by one category. (This one seems more powerfull than the rest, right?)
You can take this feat twice, but you can only gain one size category.
- Natural Attack: You gain natural attacks (i haven't really worked this one out yet, but i guess you get the idea.)

Will this class be balanced (not compared to a real druid, but compared to a Ranger or so)?

[Ernir]

Hard to tell at a glance where this is going to fit on the power curve. How you implement the natural weapons is going to be a big part of it, too.

Have you seen the PHB2 Shapeshifting Druid variant nerf? You may find that some of your work has been done for you.

[paddyfool]

So it looks like you're trying to make your casters Tier 3. Sounds good to me. That shapeshift nerf seems a little complex, however, and if you go with it, some abilities should probably be withheld until a later level than two (wings should be barred until at least level 5, size maybe also... alternatively, you could put size on a slower progression by adding a step between normal and powerful build where they get half the usual size bonus or something).

Alternative nerfs to consider would be either:
- the previously mentioned shapeshift variant from PHB 2;
- wildshape as the wildshape ranger variant (basically the same, but allows only small or medium forms);
- banning Natural Spell, or making it a +X metamagic.

[Gnaeus]

Alternative nerfs to consider would be either:
- the previously mentioned shapeshift variant from PHB 2;
- wildshape as the wildshape ranger variant (basically the same, but allows only small or medium forms);
- banning Natural Spell, or making it a +X metamagic.

Another good one is wildshape as the pathfinder variant. Essentially, it works as in 3.5, but rather than replacing the Druid's physical stats, it gives a static bonus (like +2 Str, +1 NA for a medium animal, +2 dex +1 NA for a small.) It still lets the druid turn into a climber, flier, swimmer, burrower, whatever, but he can't tank his physical stats if he wants to melee.

[Yuki Akuma]

You could make Natural Spell +0 metamagic and just say it requires you to be in Wildshape/Shapeshifted/whatever.

And come up with some sort of penalty for staying in other forms longer than your natural one. Maybe a Will save to resist giving in to animal instincts and/or losing your mind - that gets harder the more you're forced to make it.

[Eloel]

(wings should be barred until at least level 5, size maybe also... alternatively, you could put size on a slower progression by adding a step between normal and powerful build where they get half the usual size bonus or something)

This gives me an idea. What if you made the 'shapechanging' into a progression?
At level 1/5/10/15/20 choose a new ability. Every time you get 'shapechanging' ability, you add 1 to level in all previous abilities, and choose another new ability

Sample ability:

Flight
1- You can glide as per Raptoran
2- You can fly limitedly as per Raptoran
3- You can fly as you wish at your base speed & average maneuverability.
4- +10 speed, good maneuverability
5- +20 speed, perfect maneuverability


or


Swim
1- Swim speed equal to your base speed (no water-breathing)
2- Triple the duration you can hold your breath
3- Water-Breathing
4- Double land speed as swim speed
5- Quadruple land speed as swim speed


or


Size-Up
1- Semi-Powerful Build (+2 on checks instead of +4)
2- Powerful Build
3- Size Up w/Slight Build
4- Powerful Build (Lose Slight Build)
5- Size Up w/Slight Build


or


Size-Down - +1 Dex all levels
1- Semi-Slight Build (+2 instead of +4)
2- Slight Build
3- Size Down (w/Powerful Build)
4- Slight Build (Lose Powerful Build)
5- Size Down (w/Powerful Build)

So, what do you think?

[Math_Mage]

ozgun92, why would anybody take the swim tree over the flight tree?

[Lysander]

One possibility is to make each use of wildshape last 1 minute/day, then give them spells that allow them to assume certain specific animal forms for 1 hour/level mostly as travel and stealth forms rather than direct combat.

[Eloel]

ozgun92, why would anybody take the swim tree over the flight tree?

Because there ARE water-based campaigns?

Also, the same reason anyone would have a snake over a fleshraker as an animal companion, whatever that is.

[Gnaritas]

Another good one is wildshape as the pathfinder variant. Essentially, it works as in 3.5, but rather than replacing the Druid's physical stats, it gives a static bonus (like +2 Str, +1 NA for a medium animal, +2 dex +1 NA for a small.) It still lets the druid turn into a climber, flier, swimmer, burrower, whatever, but he can't tank his physical stats if he wants to melee.

So it looks like you're trying to make your casters Tier 3. Sounds good to me. That shapeshift nerf seems a little complex, however, and if you go with it, some abilities should probably be withheld until a later level than two (wings should be barred until at least level 5, size maybe also... alternatively, you could put size on a slower progression by adding a step between normal and powerful build where they get half the usual size bonus or something).

Alternative nerfs to consider would be either:
- the previously mentioned shapeshift variant from PHB 2;
- wildshape as the wildshape ranger variant (basically the same, but allows only small or medium forms);
- banning Natural Spell, or making it a +X metamagic.

These seem like options i might like, i will look into it.

[Leon]

Looks reasonable, except you may want to push the flight back as others have mentioned or have a duration on it at lower levels and reduce as it gets higher/fades with increases ability.

Also the Powerful Build option should be carefully controlled to stop it being abused - maybe just limit to Powerful Build regardless of your size

As to Natural Attack - 1 point gets you a Pair of claw attacks @ your normal size, 2pts in creases the Dice size one and adds another attack type (Bite?) 3pts up sizes the second natural Attack and adds a final option

[Sinfire Titan]

The main problem with the Wildshape class feature itself is it's duration. If it lasted for Rounds instead of Hour, it would be much less broken. Still OP'ed, but down to Glitterdust's level instead of where it's currently at.


I like the idea of giving them Bardic Spell Progression, so long as their spell list gets changed up a little.