Results 1 to 30 of 37
Thread: Arcane Gestalt [3.5]
-
2010-02-18, 07:05 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2009
Arcane Gestalt [3.5]
What's a really powerful gestalt build for an arcane caster? No two-PrCs-at-once, but yes to dual advancing PrCs and doubling up on casting. I have most books other than Heroes of Horror and Player's Guide to Faerun. My current build is a fire elf Elf Paragon-Generalist (the elf racial substitution level)Domain Wizard[transmutation] 3, planning on eventually doing WizElfparagon3/WizRuathar 2/WizUltimatemagus 10/WizArchmage5. Is there a better build?
Last edited by Tao the Ninja; 2010-02-18 at 07:05 PM.
Dimir member ingoodevil standing.
Member of the Evil League of Evil.
Browncoat. Because no power in the 'verse can stop us.
Member ingoodcontested standing of the Mammal Club.
Honorary turtle. See above.
-
2010-02-18, 07:10 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2008
- Location
- Midwest, not Middle East
- Gender
Re: Arcane Gestalt [3.5]
Wizard//Wu Jen? You're SAD on Int, and the spell lists aren't exactly the same. You're probably better off with Wizard//Warblade or Wizard//Factotum though, because you only have so many actions per combat so passive boosts are nicer than usual. Possibly splash Monk and take Kung-Fu Genius to get Int to AC.
-
2010-02-18, 07:13 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Apr 2009
Re: Arcane Gestalt [3.5]
If your DM allows you to have both sides of gestalt to stack for the same base class, then by all means do so. My DM's interpretation (and my interpretation too) is that the two sides of gestalt should be built as if it were two separate characters (save feats and skills) then combine them together.
-
2010-02-18, 07:20 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Apr 2007
- Location
- Boston, MA
Re: Arcane Gestalt [3.5]
Your best bet may be to do a specialist wizard on one side who goes for Rainbow Servant and Archmage. The other side should be warmage 20. The reason this works nicely is that the capstone of Rainbow Servant is that cleric spells enter your arcane class lists. The warmage knows all spells on its class list and casts them spontaneously. So this build gives you the ability to cast any cleric spell spontaneously. There are probably cheesier things to do but this is a fairly simple build with some very interesting abilities. Depending on the sort of character you want, you could also substitute dread necromancer for warmage. This actually works thematically very well since you then get a lot of nice necromancy spells off the cleric list.
-
2010-02-18, 07:22 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2009
Re: Arcane Gestalt [3.5]
Last edited by Tao the Ninja; 2010-02-18 at 07:22 PM.
Dimir member ingoodevil standing.
Member of the Evil League of Evil.
Browncoat. Because no power in the 'verse can stop us.
Member ingoodcontested standing of the Mammal Club.
Honorary turtle. See above.
-
2010-02-18, 07:37 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2009
- Gender
Re: Arcane Gestalt [3.5]
Side 1: Beguiler 10/X
Side 2: Ardent 4/Subverted Psion 1/Tainted Sorcerer 1/Ur-Priest 2/Prestige Paladin of Tyranny 4/Incantatrix 8 (For bonus meta magics mostly)/
Deity: Mystra (Ur-Priest does not actually ban worship)
Feats Worth Noting:
-Initiate of Mystra (Unless it has an alignment restriction and I've forgotten)
-Sword of the Arcane Order (Gives you access to wizard spells)Last edited by Wings of Peace; 2010-02-18 at 07:44 PM.
Doc Roc: We're going to eat ourselves.
-
2010-02-18, 07:40 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Apr 2007
- Location
- Boston, MA
Re: Arcane Gestalt [3.5]
Specialization is not necessary. It simply gives you more spells per a day and since you have so many evocation spells on the warmage side you don't lose anything by banning evocation and potentially one other school as a wizard. But nothing in the build requires it. I don't know enough about how Domain Wizard's work so I can't comment on how it would alter things. I suspect it would not substantially impact it.
-
2010-02-21, 09:18 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2009
Re: Arcane Gestalt [3.5]
Okay, how about a 20-level build with Wiz, Wmg, UM, and RS?
Dimir member ingoodevil standing.
Member of the Evil League of Evil.
Browncoat. Because no power in the 'verse can stop us.
Member ingoodcontested standing of the Mammal Club.
Honorary turtle. See above.
-
2010-02-21, 09:23 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Sep 2008
- Gender
-
2010-02-21, 09:33 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Sep 2009
-
2010-02-21, 09:35 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2006
- Location
- Utah
- Gender
Re: Arcane Gestalt [3.5]
Gestalt with dual-progression PrCs allowed?!? Oooooh.
Beguiler is a better spontaneous class for this than Warmage. Among other advantages, it's INT-based.
And yes, I was going to suggest a Wizard/Beguiler/Rainbow Servant/Ultimate Magus combo ... hopefully with at least 8 levels of Factotum wedged in there somewhere.
However, I can't figure out a way to fit in 20 levels of Wizard casting, 10 levels of Rainbow Servant, and 8 levels of Factotum without using further cheese (like early-entry tricks).
EDIT: I guess it's not all that hard if you don't rush to get the Factotum levels early on, and if you don't try to keep Beguiler at full caster level.
1) Wizard//Beguiler
2) Wizard//Factotum
3) Wizard//Factotum
4) Wizard//UMagus
5) Factotum//UMagus
6) Beguiler//Rainbow Servant (W)
7) Beguiler//Rainbow Servant (W)
8) Beguiler//Rainbow Servant (W)
9) Factotum//Rainbow Servant (B)
10) Factotum//Rainbow Servant (B)
11) Wizard//Rainbow Servant (B)
12) Wizard//Rainbow Servant (B)
13) Wizard//Rainbow Servant (B)
14) Wizard//Rainbow Servant (B)
15) Wizard//Rainbow Servant (B)
16) Factotum // UMagus
17) Wizard // UMagus
18) Factotum // UMagus
19) Factotum // UMagus
20) Wizard // Mindbender
Ends up as Wizard 18, Beguiler (with Cleric spells) 18, with Cunning Surge and Telepathy thrown in. I could have kept Wizard casting at full, but I really wanted to end up with enough Beguiler levels to access Miracle.Last edited by Draz74; 2010-02-21 at 09:46 PM.
You can call me Draz.
Trophies:
Spoiler
Also of note:
- Winning Entry of Gestalt Build Challenge IV
- 3rd Place in Iron Chef XI (Blade Bravo)
- Judge of Iron Chef XXIII (Divine Champion)
I have a number of ongoing projects that I manically jump between to spend my free time ... so don't be surprised when I post a lot about something for a few days, then burn out and abandon it.
... yes, I need to be tested for ADHD.
-
2010-02-21, 09:39 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2008
Re: Arcane Gestalt [3.5]
I'd go some combination of Druid/Wizard that got early entry into Arcane Hierophant due to Gestalt's inherent ease of access to dual-progression classes.
Something like:
Druid 1//Wizard 1
Druid 2//Wizard 2
Druid 3//Wizard 3
Druid 4//Master Specialist 1
Druid 5//Master Specialist 2
Arcane Hierophant 1//Swordsage 1
Druid 6//Master Specialist 3
Druid 7//Master Specialist 4
Druid 8//Master Specialist 5
Druid 9//Master Specialist 6
Druid 10//Master Specialist 7
Arcane Hierophant 2//Swordsage 2
Arcane Hierophant 3//Swordsage 3
Arcane Hierophant 4//Swordsage 4
Arcane Hierophant 5//Swordsage 5
Arcane Hierophant 6//Swordsage 6
Arcane Hierophant 7//Swordsage 7
Arcane Hierophant 8//Swordsage 8
Arcane Hierophant 9//Swordsage 9
Arcane Hierophant 10//Swordsage 10
1.Make sure you dump your familiar to an ACF and get a new one by way of Obtain familiar. Otherwise, your familiar will lag a little.
2.You can probably afford a few less levels of Druid and PrC X in the later parts of the build, front load the AH levels and pick up something nice for the last 5 levels.Avatar by Assassin89
I started my first campaign around a campfire, having pancakes. They were blueberry.
My homebrew(updated 6/17):
SpoilerIn progress:
Prolonged Spell(Fix for Persistent spell)
Weapon Training(replaces Weapon Focus chain)
Shelved:
Ascendant Feats.[New content!]
Finished:
Belts of potionade
-
2010-02-21, 09:49 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Nov 2009
- Location
- A place with no pants
Re: Arcane Gestalt [3.5]
Wizard 10/Loremaster 3/Archmage 5/ X 2//Archivist 3/Mystic Theurge 10/Thaumaturgist 5/ X 2
Feats of note:
Spell Focus (Conjuration)
Spell Focus (Other)
Scribe Scroll
2 Metamagic or item creation feats; Heighten Spell and Quicken Spell would be nice. Get 'em as Wizard bonus feats.
Skill Focus (Knowledge (X))
Skill Focus (Spellcraft)
End result:
Wizard casting as a level 28 (at least) wizard. I'm not certain that this works, but it seems like it would.
Archivist casting as a level 18 (at least) archivist
SAD; Spell/day and spell DCs are determined off Int.
-
2010-02-21, 09:49 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2009
Re: Arcane Gestalt [3.5]
This may be a bit weaker than the average cheese output, but it might be nice:
wizard/cleric 1-3 or so
mystic thruge/druid 4-14 or so
wizard/cleric 14-20
all core and fairly simple."Now if you don't mind, I am somewhat preoccupied telling the laws of physics to shut up and sit down."
You know you're an epic wizard when you use a stilled silent extended quickened Gust of Wind spell to blow out the candles of your candle covered birthday cake.
Adventurers steal everything thats not nailed down. And what is. And the nails. After all, a bag full of nails can fetch a pretty penny. No doubt they'll weaponize it, too.
-
2010-02-21, 09:57 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Nov 2009
- Location
- A place with no pants
Re: Arcane Gestalt [3.5]
-
2010-02-21, 09:58 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Sep 2009
- Location
- Runite
- Gender
-
2010-02-21, 10:02 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2009
Re: Arcane Gestalt [3.5]
Just a note about gestalt. Wizard gives you all the power you need. Psionics is nice to gestalt, because you can get a hilarious amount of action economy abuse with it. Same for Factotum.
Basically, Wizard/Wizard isn't massively more powerful than Wizard. Basically all you get is more spell slots. No expanded list, no metamagic tricks, none of that. All it really does is let you Incantatrix, Halruuan and Tainted Scholar all at once.
-
2010-02-21, 10:13 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Nov 2009
- Location
- A place with no pants
Re: Arcane Gestalt [3.5]
-
2010-02-21, 10:19 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2005
- Gender
Re: Arcane Gestalt [3.5]
You really want Factotum in there. You've already got plenty of spells as a Wizard or Archivist, so that's not the issue... you need actions. Factotum gives you exactly that, plus a host of other benefits. I'd probably do Binder 1/Archivist 3/Anima Mage 10/Tenebrous Apostate 5/Tainted Sorcerer 1//Archivist 1/Factotum 19 if I wanted serious power. Technically not arcane, but it does the same job, and you've got 20th level Archivist casting with 16th level Binding (and max level vestiges) combined with extra actions, any skill you need, Int to all sorts of fun stuff (including saves and AC when you need it), and tons of other tricks.
JaronK
-
2010-02-21, 10:23 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2006
- Location
- Utah
- Gender
Re: Arcane Gestalt [3.5]
Wizard 3/Cerebremancer 10/IotSfV 7//Psion 3/Factotum 11/Psion +6?
You can call me Draz.
Trophies:
Spoiler
Also of note:
- Winning Entry of Gestalt Build Challenge IV
- 3rd Place in Iron Chef XI (Blade Bravo)
- Judge of Iron Chef XXIII (Divine Champion)
I have a number of ongoing projects that I manically jump between to spend my free time ... so don't be surprised when I post a lot about something for a few days, then burn out and abandon it.
... yes, I need to be tested for ADHD.
-
2010-02-21, 10:50 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2008
- Location
- Under a rock
Re: Arcane Gestalt [3.5]
_______________________________________________
"When Boba Fett told Darth Vader, "As you wish," what he meant was, "I love you.""
Phil the Piratical Platypus avatar by Serpentine
-
2010-02-21, 11:00 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2004
- Location
- I wish I knew...
- Gender
Re: Arcane Gestalt [3.5]
Wasn't there a build floating around with Wiz/Beholder Mage/UrPriest/MT/Dewomerkeeper somewhere? Throw Factorum onto the other side for more actions.
Have a nice day.SpoilerQuite possibly, the best rebuttal I have ever witnessed.
Joker Bard - the DM's solution to the Batman Wizard.
Takahashi no Onisan - The scariest Samurai alive
Incarnum and YOU: a reference guide
Soulmelds, by class and slot: Another Incarnum reference
Multiclassing for Newbies: A reference guide for the rest of us
My homebrew world in progress: Falcora
-
2010-02-21, 11:05 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Sep 2009
- Location
- Runite
- Gender
-
2010-02-22, 06:52 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2009
Re: Arcane Gestalt [3.5]
Actually, I'm going to keep it simple.
Wizard 15/Warmage 5//Warmage 5/Rainbow Servant 10/Ultimate Magus 5
Wizard casting 20, Warmage casting 19 w/ spontaneous cleric. Thanks for all of your advice.Dimir member ingoodevil standing.
Member of the Evil League of Evil.
Browncoat. Because no power in the 'verse can stop us.
Member ingoodcontested standing of the Mammal Club.
Honorary turtle. See above.
-
2010-02-22, 06:58 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2009
- Location
- Maryland
- Gender
Re: Arcane Gestalt [3.5]
I suggest Lil' Timmy. Is legal by the critera you specify, I believe.
I do need to tweak him some, though. I've unaccountably left out loredrake AND the draconic rituals. And I believe I forgot about the monk/other class with good saves to qualify for ur-priest at 6. Fortunately, the one should more than balance out the other.
-
2010-02-22, 07:10 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2009
- Location
- Michigan
- Gender
Re: Arcane Gestalt [3.5]
OMNICASTER!
EDIT: As for use of UM in gestalt, I'd do something like Wizard 3//Beguiler 3 (with Practiced Spellcaster on Beguiler)) going into UM10//Factotum 9/Monk 1 with Kung-Fu Genius or its FR-specific version, leaving the remaining 7 levels for moar Beguiler and Wizard, either straight or PrCs.
If you stack the levels right, you could probably get away with double 9s, both based on Int. Use Factotum to surge spells, along with Rods of Quicken. You could also try to fit in a level of Spellthief for the joy that is Master Spellthief and giggle. As for what do on the wizard side? I'd specialize in something not evocation, go Focused Specialist, banning Illusion, Enchantment, and Evocation, letting Beguiler pick up the slack.
tl;dr: Warmage is what Ackbar is talking about.Last edited by Thrice Dead Cat; 2010-02-22 at 07:14 PM.
-
2010-02-22, 07:27 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2009
- Location
- Maryland
- Gender
Re: Arcane Gestalt [3.5]
Omnicaster fails his criteria of PrCs on both sides(it's also a standard gestalt rule, so this isn't uncommon). Hence lil' Timmy, for a similar effect at the price of a rather complicated build.
-
2010-02-22, 08:57 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2009
- Location
- Lara, Australia
Re: Arcane Gestalt [3.5]
Best way to do things is get one of those prestige classes that look good, but only give you an advance in a spellcasting class every two levels. Take that, and take levels in wizard every level that your prestige class doesn't give you spellcasting. A great way to supplement that is to spend your first 5 levels on a caster and the other half of those 5 levels on some kind of intelligent undead template and then take evolved undead on every level that your prestige class gives you a spellcasting increase.
Currently moving houses, posting will be sporadic for the next little while.
-
2010-02-22, 09:15 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2009
- Location
- Fl
Re: Arcane Gestalt [3.5]
Wizard/wizard prcs 20//Factotum 8/warblade 12
Win D&D.
-
2010-02-22, 09:23 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2009
- Location
- Lara, Australia
Re: Arcane Gestalt [3.5]
Screw warblade, take duelist for 10 free AC
Currently moving houses, posting will be sporadic for the next little while.