What's the most elegant piece of optimization you've ever seen?

[faceroll]

For me, I'd have to say Saph's Horizon Tripper. It's all Core, non-caster, and does cool stuff before level 15. It doesn't require convoluted backstory, a mess of splatbooks, or questionable interpretation. Given the tools, it's a beautifully constructed build.

What builds or tricks do you find elegant? They don't have to be the best, or even your favorite, but should have some sense of making the impossible possible (in a meta-sense, not a caster-fap sense).

[absolmorph]

Given a few levels, Bubs can raise most creatures. You should be able to guarantee a success by level 15.
Meaning that you don't need to worry about rolling poorly, you're guaranteed to be able to raise those battle titans.
At level 15 (with one level of Exemplar), you can get a Handle Animal modifier of +105 at the cost of 160500 gp, with one custom item. Oh, and you can take ten, giving you a guaranteed check of 115. You can now train any magical beast with up to 75 HD. The Tarrasque has 48 HD. Oh, and at level 16 you'll be able to guarantee training 3 HD creatures in a minute.
(18 Ranks, +11 Charisma, +30 Custom Item, +11 Motivate Charisma, +18 Item Familiar, +2 affiliation, +2 Animal Affinity, +3 Skill Focus, +4 Skill Artistry, +3 Circlet of Persuasion, +1 Uncivilized, +1 Flexible Mind, +1 Ioun Stone)

Yes, this is ridiculous. Yes, I calculated this entirely for my amusement. No, I didn't use all the stuff that boosts Handle Animal.

[lord_khaine]

My personal favorit is the combination of psionoc powers that allows you to "save" your game at the start of the day, and then revert to that point in time if you die or something equaly nasty happens to you.

[Book Wyrm]

The Scout 3/Ranger 17 Swift Ambusher build. Only two classes, both of which mix very well thematically and mechanically. Really only needs Dex and some Wisdom. Can become effective two weapon fighter or ranged combatant. The feat and properly chosen Favored Enemies eliminates the one weakness of Skirmish damage. The Dungeonscape ACF for the Ranger allows for continuation of the Scout's main skill monkey ability. Can be augmented and boosted by small changes like Dervish levels for a two weapon fighter, a level of Cleric and Travel Devotion, a level of Lion Totem Barbarian, or two levels of Swordsage; all of which still fit the character concept of the build.

[faceroll]

My personal favorit is the combination of psionoc powers that allows you to "save" your game at the start of the day, and then revert to that point in time if you die or something equaly nasty happens to you.

That one is really neat. It's like one of those FF7 save crystals.

The Scout 3/Ranger 17 Swift Ambusher build. Only two classes, both of which mix very well thematically and mechanically. Really only needs Dex and some Wisdom. Can become effective two weapon fighter or ranged combatant. The feat and properly chosen Favored Enemies eliminates the one weakness of Skirmish damage. The Dungeonscape ACF for the Ranger allows for continuation of the Scout's main skill monkey ability. Can be augmented and boosted by small changes like Dervish levels for a two weapon fighter, a level of Cleric and Travel Devotion, a level of Lion Totem Barbarian, or two levels of Swordsage; all of which still fit the character concept of the build.

I've always wanted to make one of those, except using the 6th level casting variant ranger from DR, and the feat that gets you wizard spells. Definitely a very solid build, despite the poor "patch" nature that WotC implemented it with, imo. Circumvents most weaknesses without taking the campaign off the rails.

[weenie]

If your DM lets you qualify for Daring Outlaw with the assasin's stance, then Swordsage/Swashbuckler is a pretty nice combo. With Shadow blade you get both Int and Dex to damage, and besides Con, those two are the only good stats you need. You also get lots of sneak attack, not as much as a straight rogue, but still quite a bit, so it is a great build for flanking. Quite a few skill points too!

[sonofzeal]

The Mailman, the Omniscificer, and the guy who worked out how to build a fully functional Star Destroyer in D&D.

[Tavar]

When you get down to it, the original pun-pun builds(the straight psion or wizard ones) are pretty elegant.

I'll have to agree on the Horizon Tripper, though. It's the best usable cheese I've seen in a long time. Though the sandwich or star destroyer builds would also be fun.


I'm actually going to disagree on the normal swift hunter. I've played it, and it gets old fast.

Edit; What is the mailman? I've heard it referenced, but never actually scene it.

[Book Wyrm]

Two other builds I really like both use the bard class, which is almost unheard of.

First, Combining bard and either crusader or warblade with Song of the White Raven, especially if you put ranks in perform(oratory). Classic warlord/marshal character that is way more effective than the marshal class. Simplest is Bard 4 (or Bard 3/Marshal 1)/ Warblade or Crusader X.

Second, the Dragonfire Inspiration Bard. Straight up bard works, but if you combine in 2 levels of Seeker of the Song and as many levels of Sublime Chord you end up with 9 level casting and the ability to use Inspire Courage and DFI at the same time. Can cheese it out with BoED Words of Creation taking 3d4 non-lethal and doubling your Inspire Courage bonus or taking some Draconic feats and getting sonic DFI damage.

You can even combine the two: Silverbrow Human with Able Learner feat Bard 2/Crusader 8/Seeker of the Song 2/Crusader 8. Initiator level of 19, 4 uses of bardic music per day, cold damage DFI, and with some good feat and equipment selection good DFI and Inspire Courage bonuses that will last all fight.

[Jayngfet]

I've always loved my Monk/Duskblade build personally. In both places you're spending all day training, concentrating, and contemplating on metaphysical things in order to channel the power of the universe through your hands. The monks Extra attack and the Duskblades Swift 1/day give you two extra attacks, and neither relies too heavily on armor at least initially. You really don't need any fancy weapons or armor or amazing materials to shine. You can add levels of cleric, paladin, fighter, or just about anything that requires training. It fits thematically in any group that isn't centered around outright chaos.

[a typical hero]

...the Omniscificer, and the guy who worked out how to build a fully functional Star Destroyer in D&D.

Would you mind to elaborate, please?

[mikej]

Hmm soo many gems

I second the Bard thingy. Even though I dislike Bards, the Bard/Warblade is one of my fav. Bard3/Warblade17, using Dragonfire Inspiration, Song of White Raven, and other IC boosting stuff.

Swift Hunter builds with the Travel Devotion + 1st lv dip into Cleric ( possible Nightsticks ) are nice too. Mystic Ranger is awesome. WS Ranger/MoMF is pretty good as well.

My absolute favourite is Fleshraker Dinosaur + Natural Bond shenanigans. It's soo good and I've done it.

[Cyclocone]

The Archon of Nine.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

A Wizard-based Shadowcraft Mage build would be my favorite. Between ACFs, substitution levels, Master Specialist 4, Residual Magic, and Signature Spell, it's able to achieve an extreme level of both versatility and offensive power without really sacrificing anything at all. You can convert prepared spells to spontaneously cast most of two schools from the entire sorcerer/wizard spell list, at an inflated caster level and DC and from lower level slots than the spells themselves, and then from 0-level slots on every second cast. This allows you to prepare extremely situational spells for just in case you need that trump card, because it can be converted to any spell of those schools on the fly if you didn't need it after all. You can also make the bulk of your prepared spells focused on utility, buffs, and solving problems, then convert them to offensive spells as needed. Without even considering supercheese tricks like shadow miracles this is among the top three most powerful playable wizard builds at any given level, and in the hands of a skilled/creative player with an encyclopedic knowledge of spells it ends up being the most powerful during actual play.

[Optimystik]

Edit; What is the mailman? I've heard it referenced, but never actually scene it.

It's a sorcerer build whose only job is to deliver the mail. (Specifically, heaping piles of direct damage.)

Here you go.

My personal favorit is the combination of psionoc powers that allows you to "save" your game at the start of the day, and then revert to that point in time if you die or something equaly nasty happens to you.

That one I've heard of, but never actually seen myself. Do you have a link? I wonder if Hyperconscious could make it better.

My favorites are the Mystic Disciple (the Eldritch Disciple/Mystic Theurge build that gets 9ths and Dark Invocations without using Ur-Priest) and the Uncardent (Ardent/Psion Uncarnate that still gets 9th-level powers.)

[Amphetryon]

I like this build by Nanshork on WotC. I like it even more because it's an example of convergent evolution...

Frostblood Half-Orc
Monk 1/ Half-Orc Paragon 3/ Stoneblessed 3/ Fist of the Forest 3/ Deepwarden 5/ Frostrager 5
Alignment: Any Lawful
Variants: Overwhelming Attack school

1 Monk - Great Fortitude, Improved Unarmed Strike(b), Power Attack(b), Endurance(b)
2 Half-Orc Paragon
3 Half-Orc Paragon - Extra Rage
4 Stoneblessed (Dwarf)
5 Stoneblessed (Dwarf)
6 Stoneblessed (Dwarf) - Superior Unarmed Strike
7 Fist of the Forest
8 Fist of the Forest
9 Fist of the Forest - Frozen Berserker
10 Frostrager - Track(b)
11 Deepwarden
12 Deepwarden - Hammer Fist
13 Frostrager
14 Frostrager
15 Frostrager - Improved Natural Attack (Unarmed Strike)
16 Frostrager
17 Half-Orc Paragon
18 Deepwarden - Extra Rage
19 Deepwarden
20 Deepwarden

Other feats of interest: Steadfast Determination, Reckless Rage

[Cyclocone]

That one I've heard of, but never actually seen myself. Do you have a link? I wonder if Hyperconscious could make it better.

Here you go.

[Sinfire Titan]

Pally of Tyranny 4/Hexblade 2/Crusader 2/Ur-Priest 2/RKV 10 using Elder Evils for bonus feats.

[Mushroom Ninja]

I've always liked the save game trick.

I'm also quite fond of "Focused Specialist Conjuror 1/Binder 1/ Master Specialist 3/Ur-Priest 2/Mystic Theurge 8/Anima Mage 5" for BBEGs -- Not only is it fairly strong, it's also quite flavorful: A dark mage steals power from Cthuhlu (vestiges) and the gods themselves.

[FishAreWet]

I know this is a lame answer but... Pun Pun. Not the original Manipulate From trick, but the expansion of it. Like how he gains infinite reach.

Ranger 2/Barbarian 2/Fighter 1/Renevant Blade 5/ Frenzied Bezerker 10 is also a favorite.

[Telonius]

Would you mind to elaborate, please?

Google-fu is failing me, but as I remember it somebody had abused Leadership and/or the "assist another" rules on crafting to bump up the bonus to absurd levels. They somehow were able to wave away the 1/3 initial cost of the materials. End result was the ability to build a Super Star Destroyer within a week.

[Sinfire Titan]

Google-fu is failing me, but as I remember it somebody had abused Leadership and/or the "assist another" rules on crafting to bump up the bonus to absurd levels. They somehow were able to wave away the 1/3 initial cost of the materials. End result was the ability to build a Super Star Destroyer within a week.

Yeah, search Living In a Flying Box for a living fortress build. Not exactly a star-destroyer, but close enough. The same concept can be applied to any large object, actually.

[Doc Roc]

There's the good old The Big Guy Is With Me build...

[9mm]

I... am a total sucker of true blue Fighter 20 optimiization, gattling tripper, Jack b. Quick, Mage lockdown.

Death Metal Bard is fun as well, as is some swift hunter tricks, and horizen tripper.

also Bubz the monster rancher.

[Indon]

I haven't seen that many, but I'm a big fan of nothin-but-dip builds that manage to turn around and unite disparate 1-4 levels in various classes into a single theme.

[Curmudgeon]

I like the high AC Cloistered Cleric. There's a nice little wrinkle in the rules that helps here.

1) Start with the right clothing.

Scholar’s Outfit

Perfect for a scholar, this outfit includes a robe, a belt, a cap, soft shoes, and possibly a cloak.

2) Next, enhance the robe with an armor bonus (up to +8), as per Magic Item Compendium page 234. This works exactly the same as Bracers of Armor; the "Adding/Improving Common Item Effects" table allows armor bonuses in both Arms (bracers) and Body (robe) slots.

3) Next, you can add an armor enhancement bonus on top of the armor bonus if you cast Magic Vestment:

You imbue a suit of armor or a shield with an enhancement bonus of +1 per four caster levels (maximum +5 at 20th level).

An outfit of regular clothing counts as armor that grants no AC bonus for the purpose of this spell.

4) Finally, realize that your armor boost (up to +13 already) isn't from actual armor at all, and thus you can still wear a Monk's Belt to get (1 + WIS bonus) more AC!

[Longcat]

Druid 20.

It's all there, all core, no fancy tricks. It does not require high ability scores, you're free to choose your feats (other than Natural Spell), and you can fluff it all you like.

[Starscream]

If gestalt combinations are allowed, than gestalting with Monk is a surprisingly simple and elegant way to improve almost any class.

Anyone can benefit from three good saves, an AC bonus, enhanced speed, extra attacks per round, self-healing, and so forth.

It helps casters even more (as if they need it). The eventual lack of aging means you can acquire bonuses to your casting stats with no penalty, becoming an outsider opens up lots of new options for alter self and polymorph, and divine casters who use wisdom as their casting stat can have massive AC bonuses without even needing armor. Monk//Druid is especially potent, as you keep your Wis-To-AC even while Wild Shaped.

Basically the worst core class in the game is also one of the most complimentary. And while all of the goodies outlined above are nice, none are particularly broken or cheesy. It's a nice, flavorful power boost without breaking the game.

[lsfreak]

Eldariel's bard-based arcane archer build.

Sinfire's already-posted debuffer build.

Bard3/Warblade 17 with standard melee/DFI combinations.

Jack B. Quick, even though it doesn't work as well if you follow FAQ.

[LichPrinceAlim]

My favorites are the least obvious combinations.

I liked a build that used fighter and crusader with help from LoM and BoVD to literally trip anything within 70+ feet and get unreal AoOs against basically anything that exists within his reach. (It also has a Ghost Touch Spiked Chain that has one homebrew effect called Planetouch, which allows its wielder to hit targets in other planes)

My other was a build that gave Warforged the ability to become Souleaters. I even played a variant using Warblade over Fighter.