Helpful spells used offensively

[Draz74]

Today's debate over whether you can benefit from more than one Resist Energy spell (of different types) simultaneously got me thinking. Suppose you cannot.

Would it not be hilarious if you have, say, a fire-themed Sorcerer, and the BBEG (using plenty of anti-Dispel Caster Level buffing) casts Resist Fire on himself at the beginning of the big fight ...

So the party Cleric just casts Resist Energy (sonic) on the BBEG, and the Sorcerer starts blasting away with fire with impunity?

Of course this is a pale shadow of the classic example of this tactic, casting Resurrection on the BBEG's Dragonhide Armor.

Any other examples of when "buffs" or "friendly" utility spells can be used as nasty attacks?

Bonus points if they're actually good tactics in practice, which my examples generally are not. (Resist Energy allows a Fortitude save and is Touch range; Resurrection takes 10 minutes to cast.)

[Eurus]

Shrink Item for boulder-dropping is one of the major examples. You might be able to use a Mass Unseen Servant spell to encumber an enemy, with each servant exerting 20 pounds of force to weigh someone down.

[unre9istered]

Enlarge person on the stealthy ninja type. (-5 effectively) Hide and -1 (-2 effectively) AC with -2 Dex.

[lsfreak]

Of course this is a pale shadow of the classic example of this tactic, casting Resurrection on the BBEG's Dragonhide Armor.

Too bad it's a 10-minute casting time. I don't know anywho who'd let the BBEG ramble on that long without just shooting him in the face.

Enlarge Person -> retreat through the door.

Enlarge Person -> thanks to wonky rules the fighter can no longer carry his gear and collapses under the weight.

Reduce Person on the halfling rogue -> can no longer reach vital organs and therefore can't sneak attack. And has to enter enemy squares (therefore provoking) in order to attack.

[Lysander]

Cast Light on an enemy's gear. Now they can't turn invisible without you knowing more or less where they are.

Have the horse summoned with Mount attack a creature rather than you riding it.

Cast Expeditious Retreat on a fighter to let them charge a distant foe.

Hide in a Tiny Hut while casting damaging weather spells.

[Glimbur]

Helping Hand unerringly directs a person towards you with a ghostly but visible hand. Cast it to lead the rogue/shadowdancer you know is hiding in plain sight nearby, and drop a glitterdust on the hand to catch the sneak.

[lsfreak]

Unseen Servant can be all kinds of fun if you're creative. They can drop marbles or caltrops, close doors, reload crossbows, assist with skill checks (including, if I'm not mistaken, taking actions to aid another on their AC). It never says whether they could fly or not, so potentially they could lift up a sheet across a section of battlefield and block LoS/LoE to the other side. Likewise, it doesn't say their size, but could possibly provide soft cover (it says they take no damage, but is silent on whether they actually take up space or block projectiles or movement - it would seem they do). They could ruin charges by blocking the charger's path, and take up spaces in a small hallway to keep people from easily passing (though they would, of course, eventually get through with bull rushes or just jumping over). They could (assisting each other) possibly drag helpless/paralyzed people over cliffs, into water, or into lava, depending on if the DM decides 'grappling' is still relevant to a helpless person.

[FishAreWet]

Spellguard of Silverymoon turns Personal spells into touch.

Now go around and touch people with all sorts of things. Like Tenser's Transformation on the Wizard. Or Transcend Mortality on anything.

[Curmudgeon]

Today's debate over whether you can benefit from more than one Resist Energy spell (of different types) simultaneously got me thinking. Suppose you cannot.

Then you're putting the lie to the spell description:

Saving Throw: Fortitude negates (harmless)
Spell Resistance: Yes (harmless)

Anyway, staying on topic: how about Brilliant Blade when someone is trying to use their adamantine weapon to cut through a door or wall?

[ericgrau]

Cure spells have the same descriptor, yet undead don't like them.

Most of these tricks are surprisingly legal .

Arguably you might have to be touching the target for the entire casting time of ressurection, making it impractical. Shrink item to drop boulders was disallowed in some FAQ or sage answer, in that you could drop it or speak the command word but not both simultaneously. The type of horse created by the mount spell is afraid of combat.

[Sanguine]

Cure spells have the same descriptor, yet undead don't like them.

Most of these tricks are surprisingly legal .

Arguably you might have to be touching the target for the entire casting time of ressurection, making it impractical. Shrink item to drop boulders was disallowed in some FAQ or sage answer, in that you could drop it or speak the command word but not both simultaneously. The type of horse created by the mount spell is afraid of combat.

Then obviously you have the Fighter/Summoned Creature/Cohort drop it and ready an action to speak the command word when it does this.

[ericgrau]

Now you're going to make me look up the exact reason why you couldn't do it >_<. How about because the DM says no? EDIT: Nevermind, I can't find the ruling anymore.

[Swooper]

Dropping things is usually a free action, so that ruling wouldn't make sense anyway.

[Jack_Simth]

Arguably you might have to be touching the target for the entire casting time of ressurection, making it impractical

Touch Spells and Holding the Charge

In most cases, if you don’t discharge a touch spell on the round you cast it, you can hold the charge (postpone the discharge of the spell) indefinitely. You can make touch attacks round after round. If you cast another spell, the touch spell dissipates.

(Emphasis added, specific text from Here). Takes a bit of prep-work, and really careful spell management, but can totally be done.

[elonin]

Now you're going to make me look up the exact reason why you couldn't do it >_<. How about because the DM says no? EDIT: Nevermind, I can't find the ruling anymore.

So we retreat to rule 0 which is a part of the game even though it isn't RAW. The reason behind wotc ruling this way is that they didn't realize how broken the spell is until people asked questions about it.

I like casting stone to flesh under my enemies.

[Curmudgeon]

Shrink Item on boulders is fine. The important thing to remember is that dropping does not necessarily imply hitting. D&D requires either of two things:

• a successful attack roll to hit the target, with penalties for nonproficiency, range, and so on; or
• a successful attack to hit the square (DC 5), and for the target to fail a DC 15 Reflex save (rules in Heroes of Battle, page 68) to avoid the dropped object

[Fiery Diamond]

How is the shrink item trick broken? That's practically what shrink item is for!

[Draz74]

Most of these tricks are surprisingly legal .

Fortunately, yes. I am easily bored by "clever" tricks that are really just rules abuses.

Shrink Item ... I knew that would get mentioned. That spell was just written in a way that totally invites cheese like this. I don't even consider it a utility spell anymore.

Helping Hand ... yes, that is another classic.

EDIT: Personally, as a DM or a player, I would be willing to do a bit of cheese/unusual setup in order to get the Resurrect the Dragonhide Armor trick to work, just because ... Rule of Cool. Perhaps a Spectral Hand and a good Sleight of Hand check could let you touch the BBEG for 10 minutes without his noticing?

[Talon Sky]

One of my players used Create Water once to fill an enemy's lungs with water. I was a little ticked ;p

[lsfreak]

One of my players used Create Water once to fill an enemy's lungs with water. I was a little ticked ;p

Technically not legal, though I'd allow it once as a rule-of-cool thing, with the target then spending several rounds coughing it up.

EDIT: Over-deleted myself. They don't have LoS or LoE to their target, which makes it illegal. Plus, zero-level spell for a no-save nausea effect is really powerful.

[Talon Sky]

Technically not legal, though I'd allow it once as a rule-of-cool thing, with the target then spending several rounds coughing it up.

Yeah, it was a one-time thing and I allowed it because they weren't going to win anyways. And every round the BBEG made a Fort save; when he failed, he drowned. ;p

[deuxhero]

Arguably you might have to be touching the target for the entire casting time of ressurection, making it impractical. .

Scrolls are always a standard action.

[Jack_Simth]

Scrolls are always a standard action.

Sorry....

To use a magic item, it must be activated, although sometimes activation simply means putting a ring on your finger. Some items, once donned, function constantly. In most cases, using an item requires a standard action that does not provoke attacks of opportunity. By contrast, spell completion items are treated like spells in combat and do provoke attacks of opportunity.

Activating a magic item is a standard action unless the item description indicates otherwise. However, the casting time of a spell is the time required to activate the same power in an item, regardless of the type of magic item, unless the item description specifically states otherwise.

The four ways to activate magic items are described below.

(Emphasis added, specific text from Here)

Scrolls of spells that take ten minutes to cast take ten minutes to activate (there's an alternate interpertation, namely that spells take the casting time that it would take to activate the item that contains it, so that all spells have a standard action casting time, but that's an interpretation that'll get you hit over the head with the largest handy blunt object at the gaming table)

[Nerocite]

One of my players used Create Water once to fill an enemy's lungs with water. I was a little ticked ;p

There's actually a spell that does that, called Drown.

[deuxhero]

Isn't scroll=standard action how the OotS could use a scroll of message to ask v's mentor to kill the black dragon?

edit: Yup

This is the activation method for scrolls. A scroll is a spell that is mostly finished. The preparation is done for the caster, so no preparation time is needed beforehand as with normal spellcasting. All that’s left to do is perform the finishing parts of the spellcasting (the final gestures, words, and so on). To use a spell completion item safely, a character must be of high enough level in the right class to cast the spell already. If he can’t already cast the spell, there’s a chance he’ll make a mistake. Activating a spell completion item is a standard action and provokes attacks of opportunity exactly as casting a spell does.

Trumps general.

[Douglas]

Too bad it's a 10-minute casting time. I don't know anywho who'd let the BBEG ramble on that long without just shooting him in the face.

It's a touch spell, though, and there's theoretically no limit to how long you can hold the charge. All you have to do is know that the battle's coming up soon, cast it beforehand, and discharge it as your first action in combat.

[elonin]

Quicken spell+arcane reach=fun with resurrection.

[Starscream]

Avoid Planar Effects on creatures that would otherwise benefit from them (undead in the negative energy plane for example). No save either.

Fuse Arms on a creature that fights with two weapons.

Invisibility on a creature with some power that needs to be seen to have an effect (like a gaze attack or frightful presence). Greater invisibility would probably work better, you don't want them to dispel it just by attacking.

Tortoise Shell grants a nice bonus to Natural Armor, but decreases its speed. Might be good to prevent a retreat.

[unre9istered]

Quicken spell+arcane reach=fun with resurrection.

Quicken doesn't work on anything with a casting time that long. I don't know of anything that does.

[Quietus]

Quicken doesn't work on anything with a casting time that long. I don't know of anything that does.

Automatic quicken spell (Epic)?