animals

[Steelblood]

Is there a rule for buying animals in general, somthing along the lines of X amount of gold per HD? Also is there a spell that is akin to enlarge person that is usable on animals? Did't see that i could delete posts

[Assassin89]

The spell that increases the size of an animal is animal growth.

[Thajocoth]

There's also a spell... Err, button... that edits your first post in the corner of that post. It's just to the left of the "Quote" button.

[Steelblood]

I'm trying to see if it's possible to buy a Dire eagle, have a wizard give it animal growth(permanancey) and then a druid to give it awaken. If i did my math right that should come out to around 3,000gp, for a nice big friend.

[Voice of Reason]

No, there is no generally accepted market for animals based on hit die. If you want a specific animal priced up, you have to look either to the PHB under the goods section or the MM under the appropriate animal/magical beast/etc. Rarer mounts with price guidelines can be found in other sourcebooks, I'm sure.

Generally though, just ask your DM. If you think he/she is making things too expensive for their net worth, you can try to reason with him/her using some of the standard purchasable animals (I.E. warhorse or riding dog), but its their call in the end.

Edit: To your latest post, a Giant Eagle from the Monster Manual will run you 4,000g to buy young, but only 2,500 if you're willing to wait for the egg to hatch. It's another 1,000g to get them trained properly if you don't have the Handle Animal necessary to get it done right.

Unfortunately, you can't get an animal growth to work on a Giant Eagle because it is a Magical Beast, not an animal, so the spell would fail.

[Steelblood]

Well a dire eagle would only be medium sized, and still not a magical beast correct? Add +2500g for permanency animal growth, and then tack on 450g for Awaken.

[Voice of Reason]

It depends on your version of a "Dire Eagle." There is no Dire Eagle direct from the MM to us (that I know of) but you can advance the Eagle up 2-3 hit dice so that it is 3-4 hit dice and have medium size, yes; just follow the table for advancing monsters. At that point, it would still be an animal yes.

Animal Growth would then work, as would awaken. You'd have to negotiate a price on a medium-sized eagle with your DM, but it would work and probably not be too expensive. Just keep in mind that, by the book, you can't permanency Animal Growth. Try to get your DM to houserule it.

Optional: If the DM insists on not allowing it, get your druid to grab it as an animal companion. The Share Spells class feature allows any spell you could cast on yourself to be cast on your animal companion instead, regardless of its type. Throw an Enlarge Person spell on it via potion or ring of spell storing and have an NPC permanency it.

[Steelblood]

Nifty!

[Sinfire Titan]

It depends on your version of a "Dire Eagle." There is no Dire Eagle direct from the MM to us (that I know of) but you can advance the Eagle up 2-3 hit dice so that it is 3-4 hit dice and have medium size, yes; just follow the table for advancing monsters. At that point, it would still be an animal yes.

Animal Growth would then work, as would awaken. You'd have to negotiate a price on a medium-sized eagle with your DM, but it would work and probably not be too expensive. Just keep in mind that, by the book, you can't permanency Animal Growth. Try to get your DM to houserule it.

Optional: If the DM insists on not allowing it, get your druid to grab it as an animal companion. The Share Spells class feature allows any spell you could cast on yourself to be cast on your animal companion instead, regardless of its type. Throw an Enlarge Person spell on it via potion or ring of spell storing and have an NPC permanency it.

The Dire Eagle is in MM2. It's 3.0 material though, so grab the update from WotC's mainsite.

[Devils_Advocate]

The awaken spell changes the target's creature type to Magical Beast. So, to get Permanent animal growth to work, you need to get your DM to not only house-rule that animal growth can be made Permanent, but rule that changing the subject of an ongoing magical effect into an invalid target doesn't end the effect. Even then, it can be dispelled, and at that point it can't be reinstated, because the eagle is now an invalid target for the animal growth spell. All of this is also true for Awakening an animal companion enlarged through enlarge person, since once it's Awakened it's not an animal companion any longer.

What you're suggesting seems needlessly convoluted next to just getting a giant eagle, which is a Large, intelligent eagle to start with. They're available as cohorts and paladin mounts.

[Harperfan7]

The MM2 gives rules for buying warbeast animals, and why wouldn't you want one of those instead?

[Runeclaw]

Dire Eagle is also in Races of Stone, and they are already large animals there.

[Runeclaw]

Be aware that unless you cast the Awaken yourself, your awakend eagle is probably not going to be loyal to you unless you spend a feat on Leadership or something. Otherwise its an intelligent sentient being who is not going to follow you around just because you shelled out some gold for it.

[Steelblood]

Awaken gives the creature no bearing to the caster only that its non-hostile. The reason i was asking these question is because i only had the pathfinder PHB on hand. Also thanks for the Dire Eagle in RoS

[Ashiel]

A fair rule, I believe, for purchasing more exotic animals would be to price them similar to magic items. They are of course going to make you much stronger on average as you can literally buy new cohorts; and (if you're a dirty bastard) they're even expendable.

Maybe something like 200 * CR^ to determine the cost of a tamed animal of the sort, and 400 * CR^ for a trained animal. Using this method, buying a Heavy warhorse would be 400gp. Purchasing a Rhino would be 3,200gp, or twice that for a war-trained rhino (y'know it'd be scary). It'd make Handle Animal even cooler if you could buy the animal and train it yourself.

For another comparison, a Tyranosaur would cost 12,800 gold untrained, or 25,600 gold trained. That seems like a solid investment to me, and yet enough cost that not everyone will want one.

You could ask your DM if the following would be acceptable to him:

Dire Eagle
Size/Type: Large Animal
Hit Dice: 6d8+24 (51 hp)
Initiative: +1
Speed: 20 ft. (4 squares), fly 80 ft. (average)
Armor Class: 13 (-1 size, +1 Dex, +3 natural), touch 10, flat-footed 12
Base Attack/Grapple: +4/+14
Attack: Talons +10 melee (1d8+6)
Full Attack: 2 talons +5 melee (1d8+6), unarmed strike +5 (1d6+3), and bite +5 melee (1d8+3)
Space/Reach: 10 ft./5 ft.
Special Attacks: —
Special Qualities: Low-light vision
Saves: Fort +9, Ref +6, Will +4
Abilities: Str 22, Dex 12, Con 18, Int 2, Wis 14, Cha 6
Skills: Listen +4, Spot +21
Feats: Alertness, Weapon FinesseB, Improved Unarmed Strike, Improved Grapple
Environment: Temperate mountains
Organization: Solitary or pair
Challenge Rating: 3
Advancement: 7-11 HD (Large), 12-22 HD (Huge)
Level Adjustment: —

Dire Eagles are large and powerful birds that swoop down and grab their foes with their talons before they expect it. They typically fly high above their prey, using their keen eyes to spot them and then diving towards them hoping to catch them flat footed with a talon attack (dealing double damage on a dive attack). On the following round, a Dire Eagle will attempt to either full-attack the creature or pin it in a grapple if it is smaller than itself. If it grapples the opponent, it will continue on the following round. It will attempt an opposed grapple check to fly back into the air at half speed; gaining a +4 bonus on this check if it has already pinned its opponent with the initial grapple attempt.

Once in the air, the Dire Eagle will continue to drag their prey away. Against prey that fights back, it is not uncommon for a Dire Eagle to drop their prey against jagged rocks and other hazards from the air, only to swoop down and grapple their prey again.

Skills
Dire Eagles have a +8 racial bonus on Spot checks.

Dire Eagles as Mounts
A dire eagle costs 1,800gp or 3,200gp for one trained to accept a rider for warfare. Dire eagle eggs for rearing generally can be purchased for 900 gold gold pieces, and require three months to hatch, and another six months before they grow large enough to accept riders.

A Dire Eagle's light load is 346lbs, medium 692lbs, and heavy 1040lbs.

Creator's Notes
The dire eagle uses a basic eagle advanced to 6HD and increased in size twice. Its land speed was increased to 20ft for logical purposes. It was given improved unarmed strike and improved grapple to simulate the ability to snatch up their prey.

Thoughts?

[Irreverent Fool]

The MM2 gives rules for buying warbeast animals, and why wouldn't you want one of those instead?

This, and they are stupid cheap.

obnoxious
sig

[Steelblood]

The warbeast template is pretty cheap a Rhino as such would only be 775g. The real reason i wanted a large sized eagle with a high Int. would be more of a traveling companion. Not to use it as a mount or just another weapon, but as a link to my tribe and a sort of guide. As a wind oracle i figured it would be some nice character fluff(and a nice link for GM nudges). I'll talk to the GM to see if he can make it happen, if not it's no great loss.

[Rising Phoenix]

MM II has the Dire Hawk. Races of Stone has the Dire Eagle, their different.

R.P.

[hamishspence]

Races of the Wild also redoes the Dire Hawk for 3.5.

Dire hawks advanced to Large size might also do.

[Runeclaw]

Awaken gives the creature no bearing to the caster only that its non-hostile.

From the SRD: "it serves you in specific tasks or endeavors if you communicate your desires to it."

So an awakened animal will serve the person who awoke it - but to anyone else its basically just another sentient NPC with its own agenda. The fact that you paid a few gold for it when it was a hatchling isn't likely to impress it, and it can no longer be controlled by Handle Animal. Whether it would choose to travel with you or not is obviously up to your DM (and probably affected by how well you've treated it). If it was my game, I'd treat it as a cohort like any other (although this would require determining the LA, if any, for the animal).

I have an awakened warhorse as a cohort in a game currently.