All-Psionic Party

[Beowulf DW]

While planning for a future campaign, my friends decided that we should be an all-psionic party starting off at 4th level.

One has decided to be a Soulknife, eventually taking the Soulbow PrC.
Another has decided to be a Psychic Warrior.

They've suggested that I be a divine mind, mostly because it is, in theory, a medieval Jedi, and also because I'm a bit wary of having psionic powers to keep track of (I'm still new at this). We even found a deity that grants mantles for Force and Light and Darkness, so yeah...Jedi.

I can't find any guide or handbook on Divine Minds, so I was hoping that some of you could offer some advice, i.e. race, minimum recommended ability scores, recommended feats...pretty please with sugar on top?

[Gnorman]

Go Ardent instead? They really don't get so many powers that you'd be overwhelmed.

Divine Mind is popularly considered to be absolute... um... trash. But if it's not a highly-optimized game, that might not be a worry for you. They're good at buffing, not really bad at fighting, but they're somewhat underwhelming.

Ardent handbook here.

Psywar handbook here.

You're a blend between the two, really, with less psychic potential. Toss on some full plate, swing a greatsword around, and hope for the best. Look for powers that increase your combat potential. If you're not deadset on the two mantles, here's a few others to look at: Justice, Guardian, and Pain and Suffering mantles would be best for combat, providing bonuses to attack, damage, and DR. Fate is great when bad rolls arise. Time is awesome for initiative. Freedom makes you faster and harder to grapple, which can help out immensely (plus its powers are nice).

Concentrate on Wisdom and Strength, with sidelines in Constitution and Charisma. Half-giant would be a good pick if you can stomach the LA. Non-psionic thri-kreen might be good too, though you won't really need their Dexterity bonus. I like synads too - with the Fate mantle and their oracle's insight bonus, that's a lot of floating modifiers for inevitable bad luck.

[sonofzeal]

Divine Mind is popularly considered to be absolute... um... trash. But if it's not a highly-optimized game, that might not be a worry for you. They're good at buffing, not really bad at fighting, but they're somewhat underwhelming.

I've played one. Actually, he ended up being the #1 most brokenly overpowered character I've ever played, though Bard+Marshal dips had something to do with that.

Passive buffs are small, but they add up and get multiplied by the size of the party. Don't underestimate that, just because you might be weaker in solo play.

[Beowulf DW]

Thanks, guys.

I really appreciate it.

[PinkysBrain]

Another advantage of the Ardent is that he can do the psionic healing trick (vigor+empathic transfer). For that you really need a class with full power point progression.

[Optimystik]

One has decided to be a Soulknife, eventually taking the Soulbow PrC.

Have that player take the Soulknife ACF that trades Wild Talent for Hidden Talent. Then he will have a psionic power to use his PP on instead of it just sitting there.

They've suggested that I be a divine mind, mostly because it is, in theory, a medieval Jedi, and also because I'm a bit wary of having psionic powers to keep track of (I'm still new at this). We even found a deity that grants mantles for Force and Light and Darkness, so yeah...Jedi.

Why so much melee? With a Soulknife (even one that goes into Soulbow) and a Psywar you already have plenty. Be an Ardent instead - a one-level dip in Psywar or Fighter will give you all the martial weapons you need, along with much better quantity and quality of powers, and far more PP.

Who are the other two? Psion, Wilder, Erudite? Wilder makes a great gish, and can actually be far superior to a Divine Mind with the right powers. Ardents definitely are. Though of course, Wilders are best at blasting, and your Psion could be a powerful Telepath or Shaper to round out the group.

[imperialspectre]

Also, Ardent calculates max power level off of manifester level instead of effective Ardent level. That means you can afford a dip or two, as well as a PrC that loses a level of manifesting. Just take Practiced Manifester and you're good to go.

[Beowulf DW]

Have that player take the Soulknife ACF that trades Wild Talent for Hidden Talent. Then he will have a psionic power to use his PP on instead of it just sitting there.



Why so much melee? With a Soulknife (even one that goes into Soulbow) and a Psywar you already have plenty. Be an Ardent instead - a one-level dip in Psywar or Fighter will give you all the martial weapons you need, along with much better quantity and quality of powers, and far more PP.

Who are the other two? Psion, Wilder, Erudite? Wilder makes a great gish, and can actually be far superior to a Divine Mind with the right powers. Ardents definitely are. Though of course, Wilders are best at blasting, and your Psion could be a powerful Telepath or Shaper to round out the group.

I have no idea what the other two will be. I've been looking at the ardent, and the more I see, the more I like, so maybe I'll go with that instead.

It's not a big leap thematically, and the dip into Fighter you mentioned would allow me to function in much the same way as a divine mind (at least, that's what it looks like to me).

[CTLC]

I have no idea what the other two will be. I've been looking at the ardent, and the more I see, the more I like, so maybe I'll go with that instead.

It's not a big leap thematically, and the dip into Fighter you mentioned would allow me to function in much the same way as a divine mind (at least, that's what it looks like to me).

substitute powers ACF, dont know if this has been mentioned [im in a bit if a hurry] but take it! You pick appropriate powers for mantles, so none of this "never get energy missile" nonsense. Ardents are good, substitute powers ardents are the best gishes ever!

[Samb]

Go Ardent instead? They really don't get so many powers that you'd be overwhelmed.

Divine Mind is popularly considered to be absolute... um... trash. But if it's not a highly-optimized game, that might not be a worry for you. They're good at buffing, not really bad at fighting, but they're somewhat underwhelming.

Ardent handbook here.

Wow 2 bumps for my handbook in two days, this is really making me feel guilty for not finishing the damn thing. I'll get on it now that you have shamed me in revealing my incomplete opus.

Divine minds suck as melee because they were not designed for full front line activities. Their auras make them more support than anything, which might be appropriate for your group. Even in that role they just aren't as good.

I do have a (completed) wilder handbook if you still want a decent gish. I personally love playing them as frontliner since no one expects them to be great at it. Surging euphoria really adds up in later levels, someone most people forget to factor in.

[Beowulf DW]

There's a good chance that one of the other players I didn't mention will use a barbarian who thinks he's psionic.

[Pluto]

There's a good chance that one of the other players I didn't mention will use a barbarian who thinks he's psionic.

Is there going to be physical space for another melee character in this group?

Now I'm curious to fiddle with an Ardent archer...

[deuxhero]

Have that player take the Soulknife ACF that trades Wild Talent for Hidden Talent. Then he will have a psionic power to use his PP on instead of it just sitting there.

And the worthless psychic strike (you aren't getting Knife to the Soul if you are sane an prc out) for feats.

How is the group going to deal with skill monkey needs? Anyone going to be a Psy Rogue

[Beowulf DW]

Is there going to be physical space for another melee character in this group?

Now I'm curious to fiddle with an Ardent archer...

We don't know anything for sure about the last few people. But it looks like I can potentially fill a lot of roles with an Ardent, so I think I'll stick with that for the time being.

[Asheram]

... I'm sorry... I can't help myself...

Now buy a submarine and make a lot of think-tank jokes.

[Beowulf DW]

... I'm sorry... I can't help myself...

Now buy a submarine and make a lot of think-tank jokes.

Sure. Why the hell not?

[Optimystik]

The best part is when you all take out the BBEG with Metaconcert.

"Let our powers combine!"

[Beowulf DW]

The best part is when you all take out the BBEG with Metaconcert.

"Let our powers combine!"

"By our powers combined, we're gonna beat the crap outta you!"

...The barbarian would finally have it revealed that he isn't really psionic, though...

[Optimystik]

"By our powers combined, we're gonna beat the crap outta you!"

...The barbarian would finally have it revealed that he isn't really psionic, though...

That's easy to fix. If he uses a psionic race then he is a psionic creature, whether or not he has levels in a manifesting class.

Have him be a half-giant - great bonuses to being a Barb (+2 Str and Con) and he counts as Large anytime it would help him while still being Medium, and he gets 2 PP he can put in the pool. Or be a Psiforged - Warforged are also a great melee race, and Psiforged count as Psionic. He can store his 1 power point in himself and accumulate points = half his level+1 that way, in preparation for a big Metaconcert finish.

Just be sure one of you yells "Go Planet!" when you do this.

[Human Paragon 3]

And use the metaconcert PP to manifest a super-powerful Atral Construct. GO PLANET!

[Fishy]

Oh geeze. And there's the Elemental Mantles to go with it, too...

An Ardent/Metamind, a Mantled Wilder, a Mantled Psionic Warrior...

Ma-Ti can be the Divine Mind with the Communication Mantle, because no one cares.

[Deth Muncher]

Sorry, you've lost say in the matter. You now HAVE to be the Planeteers.

[Optimystik]

Ma-Ti can be the Divine Mind with the Communication Mantle, because no one cares.

Actually, he'll probably be the conductor - Heart is the most likely of the five to be a Telepath.

Though the Psywar (Earth?) and Ardent could perform this function too, of course.

In fact, if you have an Ardent, you don't need the Communication mantle for Metaconcert either - using the "power swap" ACF, you could make a case for it being under Fate, Law, Knowledge, Mental Power, and even Elements if everyone else has an elemental mantle.

[Beowulf DW]

Actually, he'll probably be the conductor - Heart is the most likely of the five to be a Telepath.

Though the Psywar (Earth?) and Ardent could perform this function too, of course.

In fact, if you have an Ardent, you don't need the Communication mantle for Metaconcert either - using the "power swap" ACF, you could make a case for it being under Fate, Law, Knowledge, Mental Power, and even Elements if everyone else has an elemental mantle.

I really like the ACFs that everyone's mentioned, but I should point out that I won't be using them. I've been told that our DM has some experience, but he's DMing so that a more accomplished DM can have one last campaign as a PC before graduating college. Out of respect and friendship, we're avoiding homebrew and other such material so that he'll have an easier time of it.

P.S. I'll run the Planeteer idea by my friends. They'll probably love idea.

[Optimystik]

Well, the ACF isn't homebrew (it's published by WotC themselves here) but as you wish.

Keep in mind that the Elemental Mantles bit is in the same article, if that's what you were going to use for the Planeteers idea.

You can still have a Telepath or Psywar in the party manifest Metaconcert, or take the Communication mantle yourself if you really want it.

[Beowulf DW]

Well, the ACF isn't homebrew (it's published by WotC themselves here) but as you wish.

Oh...well...hmmm...

I'll think about it.

[Deth Muncher]

Oh...well...hmmm...
Guess I'll just go ahead and do this then, because it's the best idea known to man.

I'm pretty sure that's what you meant to say.

[Kira_the_5th]

P.S. I'll run the Planeteer idea by my friends. They'll probably love idea.

Probably? That idea is more along the lines of "Make sure we grap ourselves a psion so we can use that ability as soon as possible!" in our group.

Hi, I'm the aforementioned soulknife, and our group is still as a whole trying to figure out psionics since since this upcoming game's the first time we've ever really used them. Thanks for all the help with ideas, everyone.

[Beowulf DW]

Probably? That idea is more along the lines of "Make sure we grap ourselves a psion so we can use that ability as soon as possible!" in our group.

Hi, I'm the aforementioned soulknife, and our group is still as a whole trying to figure out psionics since since this upcoming game's the first time we've ever really used them. Thanks for all the help with ideas, everyone.

I was wondering when one of you was going to find this.

[Optimystik]

You guys should get a telepath anyway - the meat shield (Ardent), melee damage (Psywar) and ranged damage (Soulbow) roles are more than covered.

And again, your Psywar or Ardent can manifest Metaconcert even if you go without one.

Further, Telepaths are easy for your DM to rein in - most of their signature powers are mind-affecting, so he can start mixing in monsters that aren't susceptible. That should ease his mind about psionics.

Then next game, one of you can run a Wilder and nuke everything.