It's Morphin' Time [3.5]

[Pluto]

I've played 3rd edition for around 7 years and not once have I used Polymorph as a player. (As a DM, it's just not the same.)
But right now, my Transformation Domain Cleric is a sneeze away from level 9 and I'm looking at just what the spell does.

The size limits look like they're going to be a huge thorn in my side.

My character is a Tiefling, and thus medium-sized, and probably stuck that way. While this gives me all sorts of clever things to do with outsider forms, it means that Huge shapes are out of my reach.

Now, the Polymorph forms I see most celebrated are the Treeant, Hydra, Firbolg, Behir and Remorhaz. As far as I can tell, none of those are viable options for me. (This is especially a drag with the latter two, given my character's recurring threats to eat various public figures.)



So do you know any ways for a Tiefling Cleric to Polymorph into a Huge creature?
This can include feats, items, ways of changing my character's "normal size," anything.


All that occurs to me is Proteus Skin, which sidesteps the Polymorph spell entirely.



Also, I'd like to know if anyone knows of any Medium or Large monsters - other than the Gibbering Mouther - with the Swallow Whole ability. (Eating people is kind of important here.)

Thanks!

[edit:]

Or is there an errata somewhere that lets Polymorph do this without outside support?

[GreyVulpine]

Tiny Von BigMcLargeHuge

Not exactly what you're looking for, but fun nonetheless.

[Pluto]

Tiny Von BigMcLargeHuge

Not exactly what you're looking for, but fun nonetheless.

Nice!

Touchstone (Sunken City) may let this work (under certain readings, anyway...)

[Greenish]

Now, the Polymorph forms I see most celebrated are the Treeant, Hydra, Firbolg, Behir and Remorhaz. As far as I can tell, none of those are viable options for me.

Why not?

Anyhow, huge forms aside from those, there's Sun Giant (MM2).

[Jack_Simth]

Let's see...

Option 1:
You don't need Swallow Whole to eat someone - you only need Swallow Whole if you want to eat them alive. After someone's dead, they can be eaten, no problem (although it may take some time)

Option 2:
An Ooze is viable form for Polymorph - a Gelatinous Cube is Large, and should thus be within range. And lets you eat things. As the abilities you're interested in are Ex special attacks, you get them with Polymorph.

Option 3:
A Rast gets Blood Drain - which is eating a significant chunk of them, if not quite what you're after.

Option 4:
Supernatural Transformation (Barghest(Feed)) will do the job, although you will need to kill them first.

Option 5:
Cloakers get Engulf, which is similar.

[Pluto]

Good ideas!

I think I can make this work then.

Let's see...

Option 1:
You don't need Swallow Whole to eat someone - you only need Swallow Whole if you want to eat them alive. After someone's dead, they can be eaten, no problem (although it may take some time)

But that's just icky

[deuxhero]

Why are you polymorphing your squishy self into a big huge squishy target.


You use polymorph on the stupid fighter.

[Pluto]

You use polymorph on the stupid fighter.

I am the party's stupid fighter.

It's been... interesting.

[imperialspectre]

Um, hold it right there. You're a Tiefling, which means you have the Outsider type. You can polymorph into any creature of your type. Are you seriously saying you don't have enough polymorph options as an outsider?

Look, if you want to eat, polymorph into a Greater Barghest. Sure, you can't actually feed, because it's a (Su) ability, but your ability mods are nice and you get a couple natural weapons.

Or, get Assume Supernatural Ability (Savage Species), and feed to your heart's content.

[Pluto]

Um, hold it right there. You're a Tiefling, which means you have the Outsider type. You can polymorph into any creature of your type. Are you seriously saying you don't have enough polymorph options as an outsider?

I thought I was missing something obvious, given the references to Hydra-shaped Rogues and Treeant-shaped Monks that used to pop up in every third thread 'round these parts.

[Jack_Simth]

I thought I was missing something obvious, given the references to Hydra-shaped Rogues and Treeant-shaped Monks that used to pop up in every third thread 'round these parts.

Well, it's basically a question of inheritance.

Alter Self permits no more than 1 size category in either direction.

The question, ultimately, is "does Polymorph's mention of size limits remove the size limits inherited from Alter Self?"

At most tables, that's pretty much "Yes, it does" - so you see people talking about Huge forms - but not at all tables.

[PinkysBrain]

Metamorphosis might not be limited by subject HD unlike polymorph but it is ML limited ... and the skin of proteus is ML7. It's still a great item, because Annis Hag represents a big boost in your physical stats for most people. If you can cast polymorph at CL9 you have got it beat though.

If you can afford it your DM is being a bit monte haul BTW :)

[PinkysBrain]

BTW, if your DM does limit you to within one size category there are ways around that too ... since you can buy psionic items simply get a mirror of mind switching.

Create some huge skeleton with animate dead, polymorph him and then mind switch.

[Starbuck_II]

Just cast Enlarge person (they are cheap potions/scrolls if you use caster 1 ones). Then you are large Meaning you can be huge with polymorph.

[PinkysBrain]

It says "normal size" though ... so that's unlikely to work.

[Starbuck_II]

It says "normal size" though ... so that's unlikely to work.

When you are enlarged that is your normal size.

[Pluto]

The question, ultimately, is "does Polymorph's mention of size limits remove the size limits inherited from Alter Self?"

That's an interesting point, and it seems to render the whole problem mute.

When you are enlarged that is your normal size.

Under that interpretation, Righteous Might could do the trick.
But "as temporarily modified by magic" seems to be an odd interpretation of "normal."

Good idea, though.

[ScionoftheVoid]

That's an interesting point, and it seems to render the whole problem mute.

Under that interpretation, Righteous Might could do the trick.
But "as temporarily modified by magic" seems to be an odd interpretation of "normal."

Fairly sure the correct spelling is "moot", though your spelling may well be correct.

Spells usually only check if you qualify when you cast them. If you are later disqualified before the end of the spells duration the effect continues as normal. Similarly if you only temporarily qualify the effect still takes place, in general.

[Pluto]

Spells usually only check if you qualify when you cast them. If you are later disqualified before the end of the spells duration the effect continues as normal. Similarly if you only temporarily qualify the effect still takes place, in general.

Alright. I'm sold.

Fairly sure the correct spelling is "moot", though your spelling may well be correct.

Huh. I thought moot meant the opposite.
But checking my dictionary, it both means "debatable" and "no longer in need of debate."
Language is weird.

[ScionoftheVoid]

Huh. I thought moot meant the opposite.
But checking my dictionary, it both means "debatable" and "no longer in need of debate."
Language is weird.

Something can be both dabatable and not worth debating. There are probably numerous such topics. For example people tend to assume that death is always a bad thing for general conversation, despite it being highly debatable. Just because it can be debated does not mean it should be.

[Iku Rex]

You want to have a look at the 3.5 FAQ answers on polymorph.

Alter self (PH 197), the base spell in the polymorph
chain, says that the new form must be within one size
category of your normal size. Is the same true of other
spells in the chain?
Not necessarily, although the rules aren’t as clear as they
could be. Polymorph, and any spell that refers back to it (such
as polymorph any object), allows the new form to be of any
size of Fine or greater. Shapechange specifically delineates its
size limitations (Fine to Colossal), which is a much clearer way
of saying the same thing.

Also note that: "The new form may be of the same type as the subject or any of the following types: aberration, animal, dragon, fey, giant, humanoid, magical beast, monstrous humanoid, ooze, plant, or vermin." -- polymorph

So being an outsider is not a restiction, it just gives you more options.