ToB questions

[Tao the Ninja]

i have some questions on Tome of Battle:

1. Can a, say, Swordsage/Warblade have two stances active?
2. Has WotC published any epic matial adept rules?
3. Would a gestalt martial adept/ whatever 4 have Initiator level 6?

[The Dark Fiddler]

i have some questions on Tome of Battle:

1. Can a, say, Swordsage/Warblade have two stances active?
2. Has WotC published any epic matial adept rules?
3. Would a gestalt martial adept/ whatever 4 have Initiator level 6?

No, no, and no. One stance active at a time*, no ToB support outside of the book itself, and no, you get the better full IL from the Martial Adept level as opposed to the 1/2 IL. Like you get a Caster Level if gestalting a caster and non-caster.

*With the exception of the Dual Stance class feature.

[Apropos]

1. No and Yes. Warblade's capstone allows it to have two stances active.
2. No.
3. No.

[Greenish]

i have some questions on Tome of Battle:

1. Can a, say, Swordsage/Warblade have two stances active?

Having two stances active at the same time is Warblade's capstone ability.

2. Has WotC published any epic matial adept rules?

None that I know of.

3. Would a gestalt martial adept/ whatever 4 have Initiator level 6?

I don't remember if there were gestalt rules in ToB, but I doubt most DMs would let it work like that.

[Tao the Ninja]

3. I just ask because a multiclass martial adept 4/ whatever 4 has IL 6.

[DragoonWraith]

Yes, and a multiclass Fighter 4/Wizard 4 has BAB 6, even though a gestalt Fighter 4//Wizard 4 has BAB 4. It's the same thing.

[JoshuaZ]

i have some questions on Tome of Battle:

1. Can a, say, Swordsage/Warblade have two stances active?

If you mean simply by virtue of having multiple initiating classes then no. However, there are some class features that allow multiple stances

2. Has WotC published any epic matial adept rules?

No. There's been close to zero support for ToB

3. Would a gestalt martial adept/ whatever 4 have Initiator level 6?

There's no ruling but sanity says no. You don't want say a swordsage 10/fighter 10 to be able to take 9th level maneuvers. I'd just count each gestalt side separately for initiator level (or take the highest level calculated by either side).

[PinkysBrain]

In gestalt you take the best of two sides, you don't stack them. So if one side gives +1 IL for a given class and the other +1/2 ... you take the 1.

If you had say swordsage 1/warblade 2//warblade 1/fighter 2 as a progression you could use the IL boosts from fighter to progress your swordsage IL though (giving you IL 3 for warblade and IL 2 for swordsage).

[Tao the Ninja]

oh, and can you ready the same maneuver more than once?

[The Demented One]

oh, and can you ready the same maneuver more than once?

Nope. Only once.

[HunterOfJello]

oh, and can you ready the same maneuver more than once?

No you cannot. Only one of each maneuver can be readied at a time.




That is, unless you ready them as different classes like a Swordsage/Warblade might do.

[JoshuaZ]

No you cannot. Only one of each maneuver can be readied at a time.




That is, unless you ready them as different classes like a Swordsage/Warblade might do.

I don't think that's correct. You can still only read a single copy. Can someone confirm that?

[Greenish]

I don't think that's correct. You can still only read a single copy. Can someone confirm that?

You'd have separate lists of maneuvers know with separate recovery mechanics* and such, so if you had the same maneuver from both classes, why not?

*Of course you'd actually recover them all at the same time with the feat.

[HunterOfJello]

I generally houserule that the martial adept classes are mutually exclusive for that reason and to reduce weird complexities.

[JoshuaZ]

You'd have separate lists of maneuvers know with separate recovery mechanics* and such, so if you had the same maneuver from both classes, why not?

*Of course you'd actually recover them all at the same time with the feat.

Can you actually learn the same maneuver multiple times if you are using different classes? This seems potentially broken. Consider for example a swordsage 17/warblade 1 who now gets to take some 9th level maneuver twice.

[Greenish]

Can you actually learn the same maneuver multiple times if you are using different classes? This seems potentially broken. Consider for example a swordsage 17/warblade 1 who now gets to take some 9th level maneuver twice.

How does IL 9 warblade get 9th level maneuvers?

[Yuki Akuma]

Martial adept classes add their full levels to IL.

A Swordsage 17/Warblade 1 initiates Warblade maneuvers as a level 18 Warblade.

[tyckspoon]

Martial adept classes add their full levels to IL.

A Swordsage 17/Warblade 1 initiates Warblade maneuvers as a level 18 Warblade.

No, he doesn't. Martial classes multiclass to each other just like normal classes.

[Master_Rahl22]

ToB was one of or possibly the last 3.5 book printed, and as such there is 0 support for it in other books. Even the errata is mostly the errata from some other book, and has never been fixed. Yes it sucks, and no it will never be fixed now that 4E is around.

Also, just to reiterate, martial adept classes only count as half IL when counting toward other martial adept classes. A Crusader 16 / Warblade 4 has ILs of 18 (16+2) and 12 (8+4).

[JoshuaZ]

ToB was one of or possibly the last 3.5 book printed, and as such there is 0 support for it in other books. Even the errata is mostly the errata from some other book, and has never been fixed. Yes it sucks, and no it will never be fixed now that 4E is around.

Also, just to reiterate, martial adept classes only count as half IL when counting toward other martial adept classes. A Crusader 16 / Warblade 4 has ILs of 18 (16+2) and 12 (8+4).

Yeah, I'm pretty sure though that if they errated then that would be fixed. The whole PrCs counting for full to both is just weird.

Incidentally, even so my trick still works if you PrC a lot. You'll get multiple uses of high level maneuvers if you can take the same maneuver multiple times in different classes. Consider for example swordsage 5/ PrC 10/ another PrC 3/ Warblade 1. You can now get two copies of an 8th level maneuver at 19, and if you then take a level in crusader at 20th level you can then get a 9th level maneuver an 8th level 3 times. Or for real fun switch the order around and do crusader 5/PrC 10/ another prc 3/ warblade 1 /swordsage 1.

And similar tricks would apply if one stepped off the PrC train earlier to go back to the base classes. And there are more variants of this trick (something like swordsage 3/crusader 1 /warblade 1 and then going into PrCs and allocating the maneuvers to the different classes as convenient).

Allowing multiple copies of the same maneuver leads to cheese even if you insist that they be associated with different initiating classes.

[Greenish]

Allowing multiple copies of the same maneuver leads to cheese even if you insist that they be associated with different initiating classes.

If you allow multi-PrC advancement, the problem will be having too many high level maneuvers even if you disallow preparing the same ones.