Results 1 to 30 of 52
Thread: Plane Shift's Focus
-
2010-03-02, 10:23 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2005
- Location
Plane Shift's Focus
I've never noticed this before:
Focus
A small, forked metal rod. The size and metal type dictates to which plane of existence or alternate dimension the spell sends the affected creatures.
-
2010-03-02, 10:27 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Apr 2007
- Location
- Tampa, FL
- Gender
Re: Plane Shift's Focus
It can't be that rare, there's no GP cost.
The DM gets to assign anything they want.
-
2010-03-02, 10:31 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2005
- Location
- Mountain View, CA
- Gender
Re: Plane Shift's Focus
By technical RAW, there is no listed cost or even suggestion that it might have a significant cost, so all casters are assumed to have whatever foci they need as long as they have a spell component pouch.
Like 4X (aka Civilization-like) gaming? Know programming? Interested in game development? Take a look.
Avatar by Ceika.
Archives:
SpoilerSaberhagen's Twelve Swords, some homebrew artifacts for 3.5 (please comment)
Isstinen Tonche for ECL 74 playtesting.
Team Solars: Powergaming beyond your wildest imagining, without infinite loops or epic. Yes, the DM asked for it.
Arcane Swordsage: Making it actually work (homebrew)
-
2010-03-02, 10:32 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2005
- Location
Re: Plane Shift's Focus
That doesn't necessarily mean cheap, just unspecified. And it might be less a matter of price than accessibility. A tiny stick of Abyssal Bloodiron might not cost that much, but finding a place to buy it on the material plane could be difficult.
-
2010-03-02, 10:34 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2007
- Location
- Southampton, UK
- Gender
Re: Plane Shift's Focus
This list of alchemical metals may provide some inspiration, if that's your thing.
Sun - Positive energy - Gold
Moon - Negative energy - Silver
Venus - Earth? -Copper
Mars - Fire? - Iron
Jupiter - Air? - Tin
Mercury - Water? - Quicksilver (good luck making a fork)
Saturn - Outer planes, maybe? - Lead
YMMVTrust me. I'm a geologist.
My/Friends' Homebrew.
Home on the Range? Bright light city gonna set your soul on fire? Or were you born to be wild? Americana-Punk wants YOU to contribute your homebrew!
-
2010-03-02, 10:34 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2005
- Location
- Mountain View, CA
- Gender
Re: Plane Shift's Focus
Like 4X (aka Civilization-like) gaming? Know programming? Interested in game development? Take a look.
Avatar by Ceika.
Archives:
SpoilerSaberhagen's Twelve Swords, some homebrew artifacts for 3.5 (please comment)
Isstinen Tonche for ECL 74 playtesting.
Team Solars: Powergaming beyond your wildest imagining, without infinite loops or epic. Yes, the DM asked for it.
Arcane Swordsage: Making it actually work (homebrew)
-
2010-03-02, 10:38 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2005
- Location
Re: Plane Shift's Focus
Ok, so by RAW you should have tiny sticks of metal for all the standard planes in your component pouch. But that means that to travel to any less known plane, like a deity or wizard's private universe or any other demiplane, you'd probably need to discover what metal to use and how long to make the fork.
It also means that a magician exiled to a plane without a component pouch is completely stranded, even if they have plane shift prepared, unless they can cast wish, gate, or miracle to escape. Maybe on some planes they could find the appropriate metal and create a new stick, but in others the metal might simply not exist.Last edited by Lysander; 2010-03-02 at 10:43 AM.
-
2010-03-02, 10:47 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2007
- Location
- Switzerland
- Gender
Re: Plane Shift's Focus
I think the people over on Planewalker started making a list once, but never got it finished. I remember that I liked the recommendation of Lead for the grey wastes, though. It felt fitting. I think there was also Silver (Purity) for Elysium, Greensteel for Baator and... hmm. I forgot the others. Iron makes sense for Acheron, though.
Last edited by Eldan; 2010-03-02 at 10:49 AM.
Resident Vancian Apologist
-
2010-03-02, 10:51 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2005
- Location
Re: Plane Shift's Focus
I wonder what the material plane's metal is....
-
2010-03-02, 10:54 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2005
- Location
- Mountain View, CA
- Gender
Re: Plane Shift's Focus
By logic, rules as makes sense, and so on, that is correct. By technical RAW, it's all covered by the spell component pouch. Private demiplane of obscure ancient wizard #342? If you've got your spell component pouch, you've got the focus to go there.
I would not advocate actually playing it that way, and I'd rule in my own games that the pouch only covers standard planes, but that's RAW for you.
The magician could also just have the right focus outside of a spell component pouch, but yes, a magician without a pouch or separate focus is probably stuck in his current plane. He would presumably know the required composition and shape for each of the standard planes, though, and being completely stranded would require that ALL of them be impossible to acquire.Like 4X (aka Civilization-like) gaming? Know programming? Interested in game development? Take a look.
Avatar by Ceika.
Archives:
SpoilerSaberhagen's Twelve Swords, some homebrew artifacts for 3.5 (please comment)
Isstinen Tonche for ECL 74 playtesting.
Team Solars: Powergaming beyond your wildest imagining, without infinite loops or epic. Yes, the DM asked for it.
Arcane Swordsage: Making it actually work (homebrew)
-
2010-03-02, 01:07 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2007
Re: Plane Shift's Focus
On DMPCs: "Remember, nothing will spice up your campaign quicker than long descriptions of NPC’s doing spectacular stuff while the players sit around and watch." -Shamus Young, DM of the Rings
Divide By Zero: Irreverent Fool, you are my hero.
-
2010-03-02, 01:09 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2005
- Location
Re: Plane Shift's Focus
Except the rod is a focus, rather than a spell component, and eschew materials doesn't apply to it.
I had an idea how a DM (if they wanted) could say that by RAW a spell component pouch won't hold the metal rods for plane shift:
Spell Component Pouch
A spellcaster with a spell component pouch is assumed to have all the material components and focuses needed for spellcasting, except for those components that have a specific cost, divine focuses, and focuses that wouldn’t fit in a pouch.Last edited by Lysander; 2010-03-02 at 01:14 PM.
-
2010-03-02, 01:14 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Apr 2009
- Gender
Re: Plane Shift's Focus
I'm just going to make my usual comment in these threads: making players keep track of negligible material/focus components is not an effective nerf, it just makes the class unfun. This is a terrible solution to the problem of wizards being overpowered, and you should come up with almost anything else. Spell components are a joke (literally), and trying to make them anything more than that just makes playing such a character a headache (or implements a feat tax). It's being anal and it's unnecessary.
-
2010-03-02, 01:21 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2005
- Location
Re: Plane Shift's Focus
For most spells yes, but if you want planar travel to be a bigger deal, it could make sense to limit access to Plane Shift's focuses.
Heck, it could even be the focus of the campaign, the good guys trying to outrace the BBEG in an attempt to get a rare metal rod that is the only way to access some obscure plane that contains an artifact.
-
2010-03-02, 01:23 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Apr 2009
- Gender
Re: Plane Shift's Focus
OK, that I'll buy, I didn't really think of it like that. I was thinking in terms of attempting to balance Plane Shift, as opposed to a plot device.
-
2010-03-02, 02:14 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2007
- Gender
Re: Plane Shift's Focus
IIRC there are spells listed with components that are obviously difficult to obtain, so not having a cost doesn't mean it's 0 gp. It could just as easily be priceless.
I haven't seen another ruling on the matter so who knows whether it takes a lot of research to make the forked metal rod the right length, or if all spell-casters know how. I always thought it would be a cool plotwise to force the PCs to hunt down the right forked metal rod before going to a particular plane. Or you could say, "Screw the book-keeping, it's already in your spell component pouch."So you never have to interrupt a game to look up a rule again:
My 3.5e Rules Cheat Sheets: Normal, With Consolidated Skill System
TOGC's 3.5e Spell/etc Cards: rpgnow / drivethru rpg
Utilities: Magic Item Shop Generator (Req. MS Excel), Balanced Low Magic Item System
Printable Cardstock Dungeon Tiles and other terrain stuff (100 MB)
-
2010-03-02, 06:29 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2006
Re: Plane Shift's Focus
Such as, say, (Tensor's) Transformation? They don't list the price of a Potion of Bull's Strength in the spell description... that means you've got an infinite number of them in your spell component pouch, right?
Ditto for the Detect Thoughts focus.
As a DM, I treat it thusly:
Certain commonly-visited planes are included in your spell components pouch (the elemental, positive, negative, ethereal, astral, shadow, plus your native material plane, and any others that seem appropriate or likely commonly visited, based on DM fiat and the needs of the plot at the time the caster wants to go there).
For others (Demiplanes, alternate material planes, uncivilized planes, planes with exceedingly useful non-normal properties, layers of the abyss, or whatever), you need to either find the matching fork, or find/research the instructions for making the matching fork (which is handled by way of "arcane formula" - possibly needing a spellcraft check, knowledge(the planes) check, Decipher Script check, or whatever based on DM fiat and the needs of the plot at the time). As it's a focus, you only need to do this once per rarer plane.
So if someone makes a demiplane, and you need to get to it with Plane Shift, you first need to make a fork for it - the person who made the demiplane knows how to do so by default, but you don't necessarily know how to do so. If you just need to send an opponent somewhere inconvenient, or just want to use the spell to escape combat, it's no problem.Last edited by Jack_Simth; 2010-03-02 at 06:32 PM.
Of course, by the time I finish this post, it will already be obsolete. C'est la vie.
-
2010-03-02, 06:58 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Apr 2007
- Location
- Tampa, FL
- Gender
Re: Plane Shift's Focus
That's what I call a bad analogy - a Potion of Bull's Strength does have a listed cost. It just isn't listed in the spell description. It is listed elsewhere.
As for the plane shift, the outer planes represent the extremes of what is possible. Why shouldn't combining metals - say to an alloy, or holding more than one at once - lead to a composite plane or demiplane?
-
2010-03-02, 07:49 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2007
Re: Plane Shift's Focus
On DMPCs: "Remember, nothing will spice up your campaign quicker than long descriptions of NPC’s doing spectacular stuff while the players sit around and watch." -Shamus Young, DM of the Rings
Divide By Zero: Irreverent Fool, you are my hero.
-
2010-03-02, 07:57 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2008
- Location
- England
- Gender
Re: Plane Shift's Focus
Fire should obviously be Brass.
Piratebold-Bard by Elder Tsofu | Backer #121 of the Giantitp Kickstarter | My homebrew
-
2010-03-02, 07:58 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2006
Re: Plane Shift's Focus
So you prefer using the portion of the target needed for Simulacrum or Clone as an example, then? Or possibly the optional focus for Banishment? Or... ah, I've got it; the natural pool of water needed for a Druid to cast Scrying (try justifying carrying THAT around in a spell components pouch...).
It might... if you're lucky. Tell me: How many possible combinations of length and composition are theoretically possible in a world that doesn't have the limits of the atom's size defined? Is that infinity larger or smaller than the infinity represented by the planes? By what magnitude?
Basically, with questions like THAT, you're in complete and utter DM fiat territory, and the only person you can ask who'll have any noticeable chance of being correct is the DM that runs your table.Of course, by the time I finish this post, it will already be obsolete. C'est la vie.
-
2010-03-02, 08:07 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2008
- Location
- Portland, OR
- Gender
Re: Plane Shift's Focus
Last edited by DarknessLord; 2010-03-02 at 08:10 PM.
-
2010-03-02, 08:12 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2004
- Location
- The Land of Angles
Re: Plane Shift's Focus
It would be infinity multiplied by the number of metals squared*.
So, is the number of planes just infinity?
(*Actually not quite. This requires the order in which the metals are alloyed in actually matters. It's slightly less than that if Iron-Aluminium is the same as Aluminium-Iron.)
-
2010-03-02, 08:33 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2009
- Location
- Earth
- Gender
Re: Plane Shift's Focus
-
2010-03-02, 08:45 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2006
Re: Plane Shift's Focus
You've made a few assumptions in that statement.
Here's a few of them:
1) That only two metals can go into each tuning fork.
2) That relative proportions of said metals doesn't matter.
3) Order is important... oh, you mentioned that one; still, that only cuts down the number of combinations by rouhly half, given the first two assumptions I mentioned.
Here's an interestingly silly question for you: What's the minimum size of a natural pool of water? Where, exactly, do you draw the line between a drop of water and a pool? Surely there is one....
Also: Yes, there are a lot of silly things in RAW, when you look at them from a real-world standpoint.Last edited by Jack_Simth; 2010-03-02 at 08:48 PM.
Of course, by the time I finish this post, it will already be obsolete. C'est la vie.
-
2010-03-02, 08:47 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2004
- Location
- The Land of Angles
-
2010-03-02, 08:48 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2007
- Gender
Re: Plane Shift's Focus
I was thinking more like macguffins, something you must seek out, which plane shift forks might also fall under. For example major creation requires a tiny bit of whatever you want to create, with no listed value. Is it now assumed that you carry around every material in existence in your spell component pouch?
So you never have to interrupt a game to look up a rule again:
My 3.5e Rules Cheat Sheets: Normal, With Consolidated Skill System
TOGC's 3.5e Spell/etc Cards: rpgnow / drivethru rpg
Utilities: Magic Item Shop Generator (Req. MS Excel), Balanced Low Magic Item System
Printable Cardstock Dungeon Tiles and other terrain stuff (100 MB)
-
2010-03-02, 08:50 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2006
Re: Plane Shift's Focus
Apparently. And as you don't have to track them, you have an effective infinite number of a tiny piece of every material in existence in your spell component pouch.
What do you mean, I don't have enough gold? It's a component for Major Creation, there's no listed cost for the tiny amount I need for that, and I don't have to track it....Of course, by the time I finish this post, it will already be obsolete. C'est la vie.
-
2010-03-02, 09:06 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2009
- Location
- Here.
Re: Plane Shift's Focus
Plane shift's description text somewhat suggests that you'd be able to use the spell to travel to any plane that you know; since it doesn't list components specifically in the text and "unspecified rod" has no material cost, I'd imagine that it wouldn't matter (unless if your GM made you track spell components, etc.)
I'd assume that there's no reason that the metal rod (however infinitely many number of combination are possible) wouldn't be assumed to be in the spell component pouch, since the precise metals required and the precise size is not specified; hence, they're covered by the pouch. Major creation, I'd think, would work in the same way - even if you want to create gold, you can have so little gold that it's not even worth 1 chicken - which would then be righteously covered by a spell component pouch.
I mean, you can cast fireball for as long as you live with one pouch. Does that mean that it's filled to the brim with bat poop ?
Originally Posted by Yuki_AkumaLast edited by Felyndiira; 2010-03-02 at 09:07 PM.
-
2010-03-02, 09:39 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Apr 2006
- Location
- Ann Arbor, MI
Re: Plane Shift's Focus
Agreeing with the Planeshift Focus being an important plot point.
I once played a rather long campaign where we got banished from our home plane, (like really really far from the home plane) and had to travel through several coterminous planes, all the while carrying this damned compass that some random mage had given us way back around level 5 which had been attuned to our plane, which served as the focus for our interplanar journey. We almost made it back home around level 15.
Then we lost the compass while crawling through the Demonweb Pits and had to get it back from ****in' Carceri. We didn't make it back for another 4 levels...Of the Core classes, Bard is the best. It optimizes the most important resource of them all: play time.
Grieve not greatly if thou be touched a-light, for an after-stroke is better if thou dare him smite.
The Play with the Two-Hand Sword in Verse, circa 1430. British Museum manuscript #3542, ff 82-85.
Current avatar: Sascha Kincaid, a lost country girl in a big city. Aldhaven: Vicious Betrayals