[3.5]Any sort of way to imitate a Dragon Shaman's auras?

[balistafreak]

So I want to make an NPC who is a "saint", who turns up in the middle of a battlefield, curing the dying and then sending them back into battle with a mere touch in a way that no "normal" cleric understands, using the Touch of Healing reserve feat, in addition to being a relatively potent healer with actual spells. (No one else currently has any reserve feats, so in a sense this Reserve feat is unique.) It's up to the PCs to protect this person for the sake of their side's morale - and wounded - as an adventure hook.

Thinking upon it, I'd also like to confer an ability to basically emulate the Dragon Shaman's fast healing aura... without actually dipping a level of Dragon Shaman, because losing a level of spellcasting progression is horribad. Is there any sort of feat or long-duration spell that can work?

[Sinfire Titan]

Dragonic Aura, a feat in Dragon Magic.

[Yuki Akuma]

Losing a single level of spellcasting progression is fine, anyway.

[sonofzeal]

There's a 4th level Cleric spell, "Positive Energy Aura". Persisting this can help.


Also of use - "Vow of Peace" gives a calming aura, and the "Saint" template gives a protection aura.

[balistafreak]

Losing a single level of spellcasting progression is fine, anyway.

For three Dragon Shaman auras? I'm not sure I agree.

Fast Healing 1, DR 1/magic, and Senses 1 are not something I'd give up a level of progression for.

As for Dragon Magic, I just took a look through it. Vigor, the Fast Healing aura, is suspiciously missing from there.

[Starbuck_II]

So I want to make an NPC who is a "saint", who turns up in the middle of a battlefield, curing the dying and then sending them back into battle with a mere touch in a way that no "normal" cleric understands, using the Touch of Healing reserve feat, in addition to being a relatively potent healer with actual spells. (No one else currently has any reserve feats, so in a sense this Reserve feat is unique.) It's up to the PCs to protect this person for the sake of their side's morale - and wounded - as an adventure hook.

Thinking upon it, I'd also like to confer an ability to basically emulate the Dragon Shaman's fast healing aura... without actually dipping a level of Dragon Shaman, because losing a level of spellcasting progression is horribad. Is there any sort of feat or long-duration spell that can work?

Healing Devotion? Grants Fast heal to you (you an transfer with touch after with remaining rounds).

Lesser Vigor, Mass. Persistent (normal Vigor can't be persisted but mass can)?

[Jack_Simth]

Dragonic Aura, a feat in Dragon Magic.

Which... would do very, very well for what balistafreak wants. Everyone within 30 feet who's below 1/2 gets fast healing 1 until they're at 1/2, no action required. Really handy around an army.... and you can qualify for it at the same level you could for Touch of Healing. Nifty. I'm thinking I'll probably start putting that into my "healer" builds (well, for the Healer builds where I don't go the Divine Metamagic (Persistent Spell) route for something in the Mass Vigor line, anyway), rather than Touch of Healing (or perhaps all three, for the ultimate healer...).

As an NPC that's not expected to be a PC opponent, losing a caster level is perfectly acceptable - you don't NEED to optimize him at all.

As an NPC that's not expected to be a PC opponent, you don't need to require an actual build for the guy. He's got spell-like abilities, usable at will, for anything in the Healing domain. Why? Needs of the plot. Oh, wait, you want a fluff why... he's got some quirky angelic ancestry.

[balistafreak]

As an NPC that's not expected to be a PC opponent, losing a caster level is perfectly acceptable - you don't NEED to optimize him at all.

As an NPC that's not expected to be a PC opponent, you don't need to require an actual build for the guy. He's got spell-like abilities, usable at will, for anything in the Healing domain. Why? Needs of the plot. Oh, wait, you want a fluff why... he's got some quirky angelic ancestry.

We have a quirk in our group: any major NPCs are backup characters for players in case of PC death/capture/disability, and often are switched in and out for when a PC's main character is going to need some downtime, Suikoden style.

The captain of the guard might accompany the PCs on an investigation when the wizard is busy researching a new spell, or perhaps the archer who was a little more than a little lucky in his rolling during the ambush gets a promotion to temporary PC as they carry the unconscious fighter back to base for healing. The players of said incapacitated players get to take over these NPCs until their own main characters can get back into the thick of things.

When they get handed a (relatively) unoptimized hunk of junk they'll be rightfully annoyed. Even more so when they get stuck with it when a PC dies. It isn't as simple as throwing on some templates and spell-like abilities and calling it a day, because if that NPC drops the "non" and adds on the needed levels, he's going to go in the opposite direction be stupidly good, forcing the DM to find more and more contrived ways to negate stupidly awesome healing.

Basically, he needs to be able to hold his own - the only reason why he needs to be protected in the first place is because he's lower level. (Promotion to PC results in him gaining levels up to speed.) Taking a level of Dragon Shaman proper is something I balk at. For reference, he's only level 6 while the PCs are level 9-12.

[Jack_Simth]

We have a quirk in our group: any major NPCs are backup characters for players in case of PC death/capture/disability, and often are switched in and out for when a PC's main character is going to need some downtime, Suikoden style.

The captain of the guard might accompany the PCs on an investigation when the wizard is busy researching a new spell, or perhaps the archer who was a little more than a little lucky in his rolling during the ambush gets a promotion to temporary PC as they carry the unconscious fighter back to base for healing. The players of said incapacitated players get to take over these NPCs until their own main characters can get back into the thick of things.

When they get handed a (relatively) unoptimized hunk of junk they'll be rightfully annoyed. Even more so when they get stuck with it when a PC dies. It isn't as simple as throwing on some templates and spell-like abilities and calling it a day, because if that NPC drops the "non" and adds on the needed levels, he's going to go in the opposite direction be stupidly good, forcing the DM to find more and more contrived ways to negate stupidly awesome healing.

Basically, he needs to be able to hold his own - the only reason why he needs to be protected in the first place is because he's lower level. (Promotion to PC results in him gaining levels up to speed.) Taking a level of Dragon Shaman proper is something I balk at. For reference, he's only level 6 while the PCs are level 9-12.

Ah, now THAT does change things. A few basic routes:

Touch of Healing Reserve Feat (Complete Champion) on either a Cleric or a Druid (you can do this with a Paladin or Ranger as well, but that would require 8th+; can also be done on anything else that can get Conjouration(Healing) spells ... which basically means any caster, really, as there's a feat for putting Domain spells on your class list (within limits) and the Healing domain has the ones you want).

Draconic Aura (Dragon Magic) on ... just about any character, really ... for the Vigor Aura (Player's Handbook II)

Divine Metamagic(Persistent Spell) for Positive Energy Aura... although as that's a 4th level spell, you'd need to boost the NPC to 7th.

[balistafreak]

Ah, now THAT does change things. A few basic routes:

Touch of Healing Reserve Feat (Complete Champion) on either a Cleric or a Druid (you can do this with a Paladin or Ranger as well, but that would require 8th+; can also be done on anything else that can get Conjouration(Healing) spells ... which basically means any caster, really, as there's a feat for putting Domain spells on your class list (within limits) and the Healing domain has the ones you want).

After much debate, I have decided to make the character a Wizard1/Archivist3/Mystic Theurge2. I'm making this NPC, so naturally I a-ok Precocious Apprentice abuse. This grants access to Touch of Healing, like I said before, and Cleric spells. At first I considered just making him a Wizard, but then I realized I wanted access to more Cleric spells than just the Healing Domain - restorations, remove curses, etc. The arcane casting side is being used not for any evocation stupidity but additional buffs and some utility. I considered specializing, but decided against it on the matter of his background.

Said background is that he was a hermit and a scholar, until war came to his doorstep. Naturally pissed off at being bothered, he disdains and is actually physically averse to the idea of direct combat, instead choosing to save lives and provide aid to the side not interested in looting his library if they take over.

Oh, and he's basically a patron saint of knowledge on the interaction between arcane and divine magic.

This guy would make an awesome PC, which is exactly what I look for when making NPCs. They should be memorable too, ya know. :p

Draconic Aura (Dragon Magic) on ... just about any character, really ... for the Vigor Aura (Player's Handbook II)

I looked at Draonic Aura. The ruling on taking the Vigor Aura instead of one from the list provided (which suspciously lacks Vigor) is... fuzzy, at best.

[Pechvarry]

Dragonic Aura, a feat in Dragon Magic.

I never liked this trick. I've read all through that text and I don't understand the logic leap everyone takes to assume all Dragon Shaman auras are available choices. As far as I can tell, Dragon Shamans have their own draconic auras and can choose any of the draconic auras in Dragon Magic in their place.

But there's nothing that says "by selecting this feat, you get any Dragon Shaman aura you please." By that logic, you can grab any marshal's major aura with the feat just because marshals can substitute a major aura for a dragon aura. Using the whole "they're both called draconic auras!" logic is a bit silly. There's a Bounding Assault feat in PHB2 and a Bounding Assault maneuver in ToB. Having the feat doesn't let you use the maneuver.

[Optimystik]

In psionics, Divine Mind gets a bunch of auras based on the mantle they have equipped. The downside to this, of course, is that you have to be a Divine Mind

[Pluto]

Sacred Healing (the complete Divine version, not the crappy PHB2 rehash) gives an area of Fast healing 3 for Cha+1 rounds. Get turning and that can work.

Or just cast Mass Lesser Vigor. It should be available at level 6. (Or Wand it. Or make a custom magic item. Or DMM (Persist) that thing.)

[Sinfire Titan]

I never liked this trick. I've read all through that text and I don't understand the logic leap everyone takes to assume all Dragon Shaman auras are available choices. As far as I can tell, Dragon Shamans have their own draconic auras and can choose any of the draconic auras in Dragon Magic in their place.

It was assumed to be an error when it was first pointed out. Until that day, everyone assumed the Vigor aura was one of the options because every aura printed in Dragon Magic is a reprint of the ones in PH2. The only thing they missed was Vigor, for some strange reason.


And no, the Marshal thing wouldn't fly even in TO.

[Darrin]

But there's nothing that says "by selecting this feat, you get any Dragon Shaman aura you please." By that logic, you can grab any marshal's major aura with the feat just because marshals can substitute a major aura for a dragon aura.

By RAW, you are correct. However, the auras you can get in Dragon Magic are... well, just barely scratching their way into the lower depths of mediocrity. Allowing Draconic Aura to get any aura, draconic, or even marshal, opens up a lot of interesting possibilities. As a houserule, I can only see a lot of upside, and the only downside is you then don't have to bother dipping into Dragon Shaman (or Marshal).

[Jack_Simth]

I never liked this trick. I've read all through that text and I don't understand the logic leap everyone takes to assume all Dragon Shaman auras are available choices. As far as I can tell, Dragon Shamans have their own draconic auras and can choose any of the draconic auras in Dragon Magic in their place.

But there's nothing that says "by selecting this feat, you get any Dragon Shaman aura you please." By that logic, you can grab any marshal's major aura with the feat just because marshals can substitute a major aura for a dragon aura. Using the whole "they're both called draconic auras!" logic is a bit silly. There's a Bounding Assault feat in PHB2 and a Bounding Assault maneuver in ToB. Having the feat doesn't let you use the maneuver.

Compare to Double Draconic Aura. Would you argue that a Dragon Shaman from the PHB II could not make use of that feat unless the Dragon Shaman picked Draconic Auras from Dragon Magic? After all, it references Draconic Auras in the exact same manner; Double Draconic Aura says "You can project two draconic auras (see page 86)", vs. the feat, Draconic Aura's text, which says "choose a draconic aura (see page 86)".

[balistafreak]

*argument*

Oh bloody hell, there has to be an offical errata somewhere.

*goes searching*

[DragoonWraith]

Oh bloody hell, there has to be an offical errata somewhere.

*goes searching*

Wow, that... is not an assumption I would ever make about a Wizards' product...

[balistafreak]

Wow, that... is not an assumption I would ever make about a Wizards' product...

One google search of " 'draconic aura' vigor errata " turns up nothing solid, not even another forum discussion. I have learned my lesson.

[Godskook]

I never liked this trick. I've read all through that text and I don't understand the logic leap everyone takes to assume all Dragon Shaman auras are available choices. As far as I can tell, Dragon Shamans have their own draconic auras and can choose any of the draconic auras in Dragon Magic in their place.

Its not really all that much of a leap to think that "Draconic Aura" = "Draconic Aura", especially among the less-established mechanic classes like the Dragon Shaman. Its akin to assuming that "Fighter Feat" = "Fighter Feat", and thus, a PHB Fighter is allowed to select Shock Trooper as a bonus feat.

But there's nothing that says "by selecting this feat, you get any Dragon Shaman aura you please." By that logic, you can grab any marshal's major aura with the feat just because marshals can substitute a major aura for a dragon aura.

No, not if Major Marshal Auras are never called Draconic Auras. Just because Marshals get the ability to substitute one for the other at no penalty does not make them equivalent for all purposes.

There's a Bounding Assault feat in PHB2 and a Bounding Assault maneuver in ToB. Having the feat doesn't let you use the maneuver.

You're confusing type and name. Things with the same name can still be different things, and this happens in almost everything(How many people do you know named Bob?), while 'type' will only rarely, if ever, have double meanings like that. Its reasonable to assume that when someone says "Draconic Aura", they mean any draconic aura, but not reasonable to assume that when someone says "Bounding Assault", that they mean every ability with that name.

--------------

Scratch all the above.

The book Dragon Magic specifically equates "Draconic Aura" from the feat in said book to "Draconic Aura" from the class Dragon Shaman. RAW seems pretty clear that Vigor is a valid choice for the feat.

[Person_Man]

Leadership. Get a Dragon Shaman cohort.

[Draz74]

By RAW, you are correct. However, the auras you can get in Dragon Magic are... well, just barely scratching their way into the lower depths of mediocrity.

I dunno. I happen to think the Senses aura is a pretty nifty feat for any character who already happens to be Dragonblooded.

At Level 20: Improved Initiative, Alertness, and Alertness again, all for the price of one feat? For the whole party??? Yes please.

[Yuki Akuma]

One level - one single level - of missed spell progression is not a big deal.

You are half a spell level behind. That's it. Once you reach character level 18 you aren't behind at all anymore.

[Myou]

Gah, I misread the title as "Any sort of way to infiltrate a Dragon Shaman's anus?". The reality was disappointing.

Because I know hardly anything at all about imitating auras.

[Jack_Simth]

One google search of " 'draconic aura' vigor errata " turns up nothing solid, not even another forum discussion. I have learned my lesson.

Or, you know, you could check the actual Errata page to see if they even have Dragon Magic listed (they don't). The official FAQ does not address it either (although it does mention the Draconic Aura feat)

[faceroll]

Gah, I misread the title as "Any sort of way to infiltrate a Dragon Shaman's anus?". The reality was disappointing.

Because I know hardly anything at all about imitating auras.

Oh man, that's a bummer. You really could have put that draconic proctology degree to some good use.

[Pechvarry]

I can see the counterarguments. The layout of the Dragon Magic text makes it even more confusing (if the sections on Dragon Shamans and Marshals came after the "Draconic Auras" segment, I think this argument would be embraced half as much). But they say dragon shamans can choose those and makes no mention of the other way around.

A bard spell is an arcane spell. Bards can cast arcane spells. Ergo, they can cast sorcerer/wizard spells? Of course not. I know, this isn't exactly the same. But this is definitely how I read it. It's all... Venn Diagram-y.

----

Also, looking at the lists, (dragon shaman and draconic aura feat), there's a lot of overlap but it's not "everything except vigor".

Both have Presence, Resistance, Senses, and Toughness.

Dragon Shaman has 3 unique to it, and draconic aura in Dragon Magic presents 6 more. Note they both have an aura named "Power" but they do completely different things (melee damage vs bonus on SR checks).

[Godskook]

I can see the counterarguments. The layout of the Dragon Magic text makes it even more confusing (if the sections on Dragon Shamans and Marshals came after the "Draconic Auras" segment, I think this argument would be embraced half as much). But they say dragon shamans can choose those and makes no mention of the other way around.

Because if the Dragon Magic text didn't say "A Dragon Shaman can learn any of the auras presented here", then the PHBII text that says you must select from a specific list would take precedence. That point actually negates your overarching argument, since in the case of the D-Shaman, there's a restriction followed by a revision, whereas the feat has no restriction place on it, ever, except that it is a Draconic Aura.

A bard spell is an arcane spell. Bards can cast arcane spells. Ergo, they can cast sorcerer/wizard spells? Of course not. I know, this isn't exactly the same. But this is definitely how I read it. It's all... Venn Diagram-y.

Not the same, at all. A bard spell is labeled as a bard spell. There is no such label on Draconic Auras indicating which ones are "dragon shaman" auras and which ones are "Draconic Aura Feat" auras. There is also specific text that details that a bard must learn spells from the bard's spell list.

As far as Venn diagrams go, draconic auras have only 1 circle in their diagram.

[Pechvarry]

Because if the Dragon Magic text didn't say "A Dragon Shaman can learn any of the auras presented here", then the PHBII text that says you must select from a specific list would take precedence. That point actually negates your overarching argument, since in the case of the D-Shaman, there's a restriction followed by a revision, whereas the feat has no restriction place on it, ever, except that it is a Draconic Aura.

You lost me.

Not the same, at all. A bard spell is labeled as a bard spell. There is no such label on Draconic Auras indicating which ones are "dragon shaman" auras and which ones are "Draconic Aura Feat" auras. There is also specific text that details that a bard must learn spells from the bard's spell list.

You're taking something I said as an example of my meaning (the part where I said "this is how I read it") and acting like I'm making RAW declarations. Patently untrue.

As far as Venn diagrams go, draconic auras have only 1 circle in their diagram.

I... am still unwilling to side with this as clear-cut truth.

[JeminiZero]

So I want to make an NPC who is a "saint", who turns up in the middle of a battlefield

He's an NPC. He can have as many levels as you want. Or whatever custom abilities you desire (call it a gift from the gods or some such).

One that is conveniently lost when he is promoted to PC.