Magic Item Craziness

[Gaiyamato]

Both By RAW:

First question:

Are Items of Legacy and the Item Familiar feat combinable?

Second Question:

Can the class ability increase be stacked onto a prestige class? (I am assuming not)

[Aharon]

Yes and (assuming you are talking about Legacy Champion) yes.

[Gaiyamato]

Yes and (assuming you are talking about Legacy Champion) yes.

Ohh... thats pretty mad then. Awesome.

The only thing stopping a player from just doing this then is DM fiat.

[PinkysBrain]

Are Items of Legacy and the Item Familiar feat combinable?

Depends on how "regular" you think the item familiar feat is ... "The power of a legacy item cannot be further enhanced using any regular process (such as magic or psionic item creation feats)."

Can the class ability increase be stacked onto a prestige class? (I am assuming not)

Sure, but progressing a prestige class beyond it's original length is IMO bull****.

[Gaiyamato]

Depends on how "regular" you think the item familiar feat is ... "The power of a legacy item cannot be further enhanced using any regular process (such as magic or psionic item creation feats)."

You apply the Item Familiar to an item that is already an item of legacy.

Sure, but progressing a prestige class beyond it's original length is IMO bull****.

I'd agree.. But that is where taking one level in two prestige classes before entering the Legacy Champion is helpful.

Even more amusing would be if that class was Arcane Heirophant. lol.
I think it enters the realms of BS there as well now. :P

Question:
In regards to entrace requirements for Legacy Champion can you take AT level 10 or AFTER level 10?

[PinkysBrain]

You apply the Item Familiar to an item that is already an item of legacy.

Yes, so it's "further enhanced".

[BenTheJester]

You apply the Item Familiar to an item that is already an item of legacy.


I'd agree.. But that is where taking one level in two prestige classes before entering the Legacy Champion is helpful.

Even more amusing would be if that class was Arcane Heirophant. lol.
I think it enters the realms of BS there as well now. :P

Question:
In regards to entrace requirements for Legacy Champion can you take AT level 10 or AFTER level 10?

Hellfire Warlock with 3 Bloodlines level and Legacy Champion 10 gives you a +32d6 Eldritch Blast.

[unre9istered]

I never understood this argument for taking more levels of a prestige class than exist. If the levels don't exist then they don't have class features, so you gain nothing if that's the class you try to gain.
As far as prestige classes with epic progressions, if you're not epic you don't qualify for them. As you don't qualify for them you lose all of the class features you get from them.

[Yuki Akuma]

I never understood this argument for taking more levels of a prestige class than exist. If the levels don't exist then they don't have class features, so you gain nothing if that's the class you try to gain.

Some classes have powers that scale by level explicitly in the text, with no stated cap.

If a PrC has an ability that can be used once per day per class level, and normally caps out at level 5, you can get 6 uses if you can cheese your way into an extra level.

[Sinfire Titan]

I never understood this argument for taking more levels of a prestige class than exist. If the levels don't exist then they don't have class features, so you gain nothing if that's the class you try to gain.
As far as prestige classes with epic progressions, if you're not epic you don't qualify for them. As you don't qualify for them you lose all of the class features you get from them.

The levels exist, according to the Epic rules in the DMG/SRD. This was never altered for that time frame where WotC stopped supporting Epic level play.

[PinkysBrain]

Epic progression rules exist for epic progression ... bloodline/legacy champion forcing epic progression is complete invention.

[Gaiyamato]

Epic progression rules exist for epic progression ... bloodline/legacy champion forcing epic progression is complete invention.

I agree with this.
I think it is a bit silly to push it until you are above level 20. lol.

[PlzBreakMyCmpAn]

Epic progression rules exist for epic progression ... bloodline/legacy champion forcing epic progression is complete invention.

I have a thread on BG about Boot-Strapping the Illithid Savant PrC that proves otherwise. Look there young grasshopper.

[Akal Saris]

I have a thread on BG about Boot-Strapping the Illithid Savant PrC that proves otherwise. Look there young grasshopper.

Feel free to link the thread here.

Regarding the original question, I'd say hesitantly yes to both questions RAW, but probably no to both questions RAI (rules as intended).

I'm of the opinion that if the designers knew that Legacy Champion would be used to further progress Hellfire Warlock or War Weaver, they'd have clarified "class" as "base class." With that said, I think the text is vague enough to justify prestige class advancement, even past the normal cap.

But I don't see how you could argue that legacy champion would start an epic progression except epic legacy champion. And because legacy champion doesn't have a steady progression of +1 level of class features, it would have to be house-ruled, which is fishy and lame. Especially for short prestige classes like Hellfire Warlock and War Weaver, since under the stupid epic rules it has to be 10 levels or nothing to have an epic progression.

For example, I'd argue that I could be a wizard 5/hathran 5/legacy champion 10, but at 21st I would have to take another 5 levels of hathran before I could enter epic hathran, since you need a full 10 levels in a prestige class to start it's epic progression, just like a Wizard 11/Hathran 9 couldn't start epic hathran until he finished the non-epic Hathran levels. Or I could enter epic legacy champion, but none of its abilities progress at a regular manner, so it would have to be largely homebrewed from common sense, which takes all the challenge out of optimizing it. Or you could house-rule that legacy champion "counts" as Hathran since you have all of the abilities of a 13th level Hathran with only 5 actual class levels - but again this would be a (logical) house-rule.

And you can normally start Legacy Champion at 11th level, or enter at 10th if you can get 13 ranks in history by then (such as with the 2 feats in Cityscape that allow you to break the cap by 1).