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Thread: Character Build Help 3.5
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2010-03-16, 04:43 PM (ISO 8601)
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Character Build Help 3.5
ok, so i posed the idea to my DM: a water orc half minotaur. this is a level 11 party, so a level 10 fighter2/warblade1/barbarian7 (warblade is for tumble) shouldnt be a problem. turns out, my DM, who wanted us to be powerful seeing as we are heroes, doesnt want me to be that strong (the plus 16 STR was a bit daunting) so i offered to be a human. then he offered to allow it, but i would only get the half-minotaur powers when i am raging.
i have been thinking about it, and i offered the idea that i only gain the large size when i am raging, as well as the gore attack. he said he would think about it, and if i can get some support behind the idea (a la you guys) then it would show him how it is not so broken (especially compared to our level 11 sorceror, who is a blaster)
so really, i was hoping that you guys could show some support for this idea, or really if you guys have other ideas i am open to them, too, becuase making me as strong as possible is important, being the only fighter
and for those interested:
our partySpoilerme (the melee big man), a sneaky mcthief rogue, a DMM cleric, and a blaster sorceror
my attributes and featsSpoiler32 point build, so 18 STR, 15 put into int so it goes to 13, 12 DEX, 12 CON, 8 WIS, and 8 CHA. i get 2 bonus points for level 4 and 8, so those go to strength. with 4 from being minotaur, and 12 more when i am raging (8 large size and 4 for rage) assuming my idea goes through, would put me at 36 without magic when raging, and 24 when not.
i get 7 feats for being a fighter 2, 4 for levels, 1 for human. i have 5 set, as extra rage, combat expertise, improved trip, EWP scorpion chain (the slashing version, i think its called that, more on that later though) and knockdown. i have 2 left, if nobody has any good ideas those are going into gaining more stances.
and now, for my slashing version of the spike chain
Spoilerso this is where my big guy earns his bread. i have to spend money on it being +1, and i am putting the whirling ability put on it. that gives me a whirling attack 3x per day. being a trip build, this will just knock everyone down with free trip attempts, because a chain is 2 handed and i will automatically be doing at least 11 damage if i hit (a large spike chain is 2d6 as i recall, and my strongarm bracers make it huge, so thats what, 2d8?)
whatever the damage, it doesnt matter, because i need to do at least 10, and will be doing at least 9 if i dont magically boost my strength just from strength alone. with a potion of enlarge person, i do 10 minimum, and will have +12 bonus to trip medium sized creatures from being huge and raging, so i pretty much just win out on that one. the rogue then just takes advantage of having combat reflexes and high dex.
so if anyone has any ideas for more magical additions to my chain, i would love to hear it. i get 66000 gp, and 6k is going into strongarm bracers and then i am buying a mithral chain shirt. everything else is to make me a better fighter.
anyway, that is my character. so any help is appreciated, and any options to try and put forth to make me stronger is also appreciatedSpoiler
In the past, I played Sir Theo Roost.
I am soon to begin playing his heir, Dora the Destroya
Avatar by Szilard
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2010-03-16, 04:47 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2009
Re: Character Build Help 3.5
What a quintessential party. I would tell you to get some better trip feats, but I cam afraid you would shut down and be untouchable by all melee. You said you're the only fighter. What is the DMM cleric doing?
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2010-03-16, 04:53 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Character Build Help 3.5
some edits that i forgot to add:
i am going spirit lion totem barbarian, to gain pounce. this is actually major and i dont know why i forgot this.
strongarm bracers cost 6000, and a mithral chainshirt costs 1100, so i have 58900 gp left to spend. i will see about magically boosting either my constitution for more rounds to rage, or my strength to just hit harder, after i figure out how much my chain will cost.
at +1 whirling, it is whatever the masterwork chain costs plus 8000. so really, i have alot of options here.
is there any other gear that i should look at?Spoiler
In the past, I played Sir Theo Roost.
I am soon to begin playing his heir, Dora the Destroya
Avatar by Szilard
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2010-03-16, 04:54 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Character Build Help 3.5
to be honest, i am not sure. i have never played a cleric, and he said that he is using divine metamagic, but is working mostly with buffs. that is the best i can do right now, seeing it is exam week and most people are unreachable. the game starts after spring break, so in a week and a half
Spoiler
In the past, I played Sir Theo Roost.
I am soon to begin playing his heir, Dora the Destroya
Avatar by Szilard
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2010-03-16, 05:05 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Character Build Help 3.5
Ask your Sorcerer playing guy what he likes to throw around (fire, acid, lightning, .....)and try to get some resistance against that.
For feats you just have to take Combat Reflexes and perhaps you could look into Improved Critical and Power Attack.
I think your group has to be careful (especially you and the cleric)to not outshine the sorcerer, but that depends on the kind of game you are running.
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2010-03-16, 05:09 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Character Build Help 3.5
Spoiler
In the past, I played Sir Theo Roost.
I am soon to begin playing his heir, Dora the Destroya
Avatar by Szilard
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2010-03-16, 05:11 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Character Build Help 3.5
Originally Posted by gallagher
If anything, I think the DM should worry about him if he's strictly a blaster -- if that's the case, he's probably going to find himself with too small a niche to feel relevant for much of the game. If he isn't strictly a blaster, I wouldn't worry about your Barbarian overshadowing him. (Bluffs, Charms, Teleports, Telekinesis, Creation spells, Summoning, Polymorphs, etc. all give a character more out-of-combat times to shine than you're going to have.
Anyway. Feats.
A Reach build and no Combat Reflexes? Or Stand Still (not everything can be tripped, especially at level 11)?
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2010-03-16, 05:13 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Character Build Help 3.5
A ring of fire resistance or something similiar could improve your survivability then.
1. Charge your enemies
2. Trip all of them and soften them up with your Imp. Trip follow-up attacks
3. Let the Sorcerer throw a fireball at you
4. Profit and look awesom doing it
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2010-03-16, 05:40 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Apr 2009
Re: Character Build Help 3.5
The easy way to balance half-minotaur is to ignore the line about getting all the benefits of Large size in addition to what the template gives you.
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2010-03-16, 05:42 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Character Build Help 3.5
What would that reduce Half-Minotaur to? I thought it was already included.
Last edited by Tinydwarfman; 2010-03-16 at 05:43 PM.
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2010-03-16, 05:50 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Character Build Help 3.5
Last edited by gallagher; 2010-03-16 at 05:51 PM.
Spoiler
In the past, I played Sir Theo Roost.
I am soon to begin playing his heir, Dora the Destroya
Avatar by Szilard
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2010-03-16, 06:02 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Character Build Help 3.5
Goliath with the 1st level barbarian racial substitution level gains large size when raging. You will notice that the internet is not exactly on fire with people buzzing about how goliath barbarians are teh pwnzZ0r.
In a single round, a human barbarian 1/druid 10 with fast wild shape can cast bite of the weretiger, wild shape into a dire lion, activating enhance wild shape, rage, and have 43 strength with 5 attacks and pounce. He could do this without any gear. Said druid would then proceed to curbstomp your half-minotaur repeatedly.
A level 3 wizard with a sling can cast protection from arrows and levitate and toss rocks at you from 80 feet up in the air until you die, and there is nothing you could do to stop him.
I can think offhand of about 20 monsters in MM1 that could be used to create challenging encounters for you out of the box, with no need for extra work on your DM's part. Swarms, oozes, flyers, and incorporeal creatures all come to mind right away.
P.S. In the party as it already stands, your DM would sh!t his pants if the sorcerer ever figured out what happens when you cast polymorph to turn a rogue into a 12-headed hydra that can make 12 sneak attacks per round. If he still won't allow your half-minotaur, play something weaker and start feeding optimization advice to the other players. Once their characters have shredded enough encounters to reset your DM's conception of "power", and overshadowed your weaker character with their godliness, bring up the half-minotaur again. It will look far less threatening when the DM realizes what beasts the other party members already are.Last edited by jiriku; 2010-03-16 at 06:05 PM.
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2010-03-16, 06:05 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Character Build Help 3.5
More AoO's means more control over who gets to stab/bite your Rogue buddy in the face.
And y'know... more attacks.
Being large and having a reach weapon, you can expect to get those extra attacks almost every round.
my dexterety bonus is zero?
(Actually, I have no idea what's going on with your ability scores. Are those, except Int, the values before modifications? Do they change when you rage? And doesn't Half-Minotaur make you ineligible for Enlarge? Or am I making that last bit up?)
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2010-03-16, 09:28 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Character Build Help 3.5
Ok, what about magical equipment? Are there any other additions to my chain, or any fun things to buy, as I have about 50k to spend
Spoiler
In the past, I played Sir Theo Roost.
I am soon to begin playing his heir, Dora the Destroya
Avatar by Szilard
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2010-03-16, 10:48 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Character Build Help 3.5
Spoiler
In the past, I played Sir Theo Roost.
I am soon to begin playing his heir, Dora the Destroya
Avatar by Szilard
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2010-03-16, 11:00 PM (ISO 8601)
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2010-03-17, 01:11 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Character Build Help 3.5
Spoiler
In the past, I played Sir Theo Roost.
I am soon to begin playing his heir, Dora the Destroya
Avatar by Szilard
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2010-03-17, 01:33 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Character Build Help 3.5
Wait, isn't large size supposed to make you better at that?
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2010-03-17, 01:34 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Character Build Help 3.5
Actually I am the Sorcerer so allow me to enlighten you as to what I am doing. Every damage spell I have picked is [Fire], with one exception. I did it so if the DM thinks I'm too strong he can throw some rings of fire resist on the enemies and (stealthily) reduce my damage done without decreasing the numbers I roll. Oh and Fireballs are overrated, Orb spells on the other hand are where it is at.
That and I'm using Incantatrix i.e. when I decided to (rarely) shine I'll be able to though I don't intend to do all the work myself when I have willing allies (read: BSF's) willing to get hit in place of me. I.e MM is what I focus on but not what I HAVE to do every round. Sorcerers are strong enough without it.
Oh and Gallagher Half Minotaur template is (+4 Str, +2 Con, +2 Wis, -2Int) so when Large you do indeed lose 2 DexLast edited by Soonerdj; 2010-03-17 at 01:37 AM.
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2010-03-17, 01:47 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Character Build Help 3.5
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2010-03-17, 09:48 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Character Build Help 3.5
Spoiler
In the past, I played Sir Theo Roost.
I am soon to begin playing his heir, Dora the Destroya
Avatar by Szilard
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2010-03-18, 01:42 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Character Build Help 3.5
Ok, so I figure that I am also putting brash on my chain. It allows me t rage for 3 extra rounds per rage.
Now as I see it, I want to try and fit frenzied berserker as soon as I can. I get to take one flaw, so is it possible to take it as a fighter 2 spirit lion totem barbarian 4 and then go into frenzied berserker, or do I need to cut extra rage? I should I go fighter 4 barb4?Last edited by gallagher; 2010-03-18 at 01:43 AM.
Spoiler
In the past, I played Sir Theo Roost.
I am soon to begin playing his heir, Dora the Destroya
Avatar by Szilard
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2010-03-18, 10:22 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Character Build Help 3.5
i sot of just realized how early i added that last part, and i wanted some feedback. i think right about now would be a better time for that than early in the AM's
Spoiler
In the past, I played Sir Theo Roost.
I am soon to begin playing his heir, Dora the Destroya
Avatar by Szilard
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2010-03-18, 10:42 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Character Build Help 3.5
Well looking at it you need 4 feats to qualify for this class. Those feats are Cleave, Power Attack, Destructive Rage, and Intimidating Rage. You gain (by 6) 3 feats from levels, 1 from Human, and 1 from Flaws which is enough if you are willing to pass on some of the others that make your build at low levels however I am assuming that you want to keep Exotic Weapon Prof: Spike Chain and Combat Reflexes and Improved Trip as well which requires two levels in Fighter.
Any other Feats you wanted to add to this build? Improved Trip or otherwise. Because if you devote all you feats to it you should easily qualify by Level 6 (earliest level you can take it.)
Also you better not hit me when you run out of enemies, my character is not one to take lightly to that.Last edited by Soonerdj; 2010-03-18 at 10:55 AM.
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2010-03-18, 11:02 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Character Build Help 3.5
Spoiler
In the past, I played Sir Theo Roost.
I am soon to begin playing his heir, Dora the Destroya
Avatar by Szilard
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2010-03-18, 11:06 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Character Build Help 3.5
Just remember the Errata out for the feat
p. 7, Knockdown
Insert to end of Benefit:
Use of this feat cannot be combined with Improved Trip to generate an extra attack, and successful use of this feat does not grant an extra attack through the Cleave or Great Cleave feats.
Insert may into “you may make a trip attack as a free action.”
After “whenever you deal 10 or more points of damage to your opponent in melee” insert: with a single attackLast edited by Soonerdj; 2010-03-18 at 11:07 AM.
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2010-03-18, 11:45 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Character Build Help 3.5
Spoiler
In the past, I played Sir Theo Roost.
I am soon to begin playing his heir, Dora the Destroya
Avatar by Szilard
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2010-03-18, 11:51 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Character Build Help 3.5
Correct you just don't get the free attack that the Improved Trip gives you normally when you succeed on a trip attempt.
I.e you get
Attack - (10 damage)
Knockdown Trip (Free)
Not
Attack (10)
Knockdown (Free)
Improved Trip regular melee attack (free)
Comes from this:
Improved Trip [General]
Prerequisites
Int 13, Combat Expertise.
Benefit
You do not provoke an attack of opportunity when you attempt to trip an opponent while you are unarmed. You also gain a +4 bonus on your Strength check to trip your opponent.
If you trip an opponent in melee combat, you immediately get a melee attack against that opponent as if you hadn’t used your attack for the trip attempt.Last edited by Soonerdj; 2010-03-18 at 11:52 AM.
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2010-03-18, 11:59 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Character Build Help 3.5
that is totally OK. slightly less awesome, but it still is the direction i want to be going, anyway. T said he is going to be a small/tiny character that does attacks of opportunity out the wazoo. i am getting a special saddle or something so he can ride on my shoulder. if you have seen Small Soldiers, think Punch-it and Scratch-it. Think of all the attacks of opportunity!!! i am thinking that he will probably takes levels of assassin or something that will give him the good use of poisons
Spoiler
In the past, I played Sir Theo Roost.
I am soon to begin playing his heir, Dora the Destroya
Avatar by Szilard
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2010-03-18, 12:07 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Character Build Help 3.5
Look into getting him some good exotic weapons. Additionally don't you mean Master Blaster, I believe that sets the trope for smart little man riding big stupid one. Also of note is you should remind him how frenzied barbarian works. Specifically these two parts:
In addition,
if she suffers damage from an attack, spell, trap, or
any other source, she automatically enters a frenzy at the
start of her next action, as long as she still has at least one
daily usage of the ability left. To avoid entering a frenzy
in response to damage, the character must make a successful
Will save (DC 10 + points of damage suffered
since her last action) at the start of her next action.
During a frenzy, the frenzied berserker must attack
those she perceives as foes to the best of her ability.
Should she run out of enemies before her frenzy expires,
her rampage continues. She must then attack the nearest
creature (determine randomly if several potential
foes are equidistant) and fight that opponent without
regard to friendship, innocence, or health (the target's or
her own).