[4e]DnD Essentials = DnD4.5?

[Tehnar]

I see in the Wizards Product Catalolog, that they are releasing a Essentials line of game supplements.

Is this the 4.5 version of DnD? Is it just a quick start pick up for new players? I also noticed that there are no plans for Arcane Power 2, Divine Power 2, etc. So are these Essential line products a replacement for the Power handbooks?

Does anyone have any other information? Any thoughts on this?

[Choco]

I think they are just a quick start "trial version", nothing more.

[Kurald Galain]

I suppose that 2011 would bring us Psionic Power, as well as Arcane Power II and the Adventurer's Vault III. Also, they've promised a PHB IV (shadow and elemental heroes) as well as a DMG IV (beats me what they're going to put in there) as well as yet another campaign setting.

Essentials is basically what pre-third-edition Dungeons & Dragons was as opposed to pre-third-edition Advanced Dungeons & Dragons. It makes sense - D&D is one of the hardest RPGs to learn on the marketplace (despite all marketing hype to the contrary), so a light version could conceivably attract new players.

[Kaiyanwang]

Essentials is basically what pre-third-edition Dungeons & Dragons was as opposed to pre-third-edition Advanced Dungeons & Dragons. It makes sense - D&D is one of the hardest RPGs to learn on the marketplace (despite all marketing hype to the contrary), so a light version could conceivably attract new players.

Are you referring to BECMI KG?

[tbarrie]

I suppose that 2011 would bring us Psionic Power,

August 2010, actually.

as well as Arcane Power II and the Adventurer's Vault III. Also, they've promised a PHB IV (shadow and elemental heroes) as well as a DMG IV (beats me what they're going to put in there) as well as yet another campaign setting.

No idea if we'll see Power II books for any power source besides Martial. And the DMG III isn't listed in their Product Catalogue yet, oddly enough, even though it appears to extend to the end of 2010, so even a DMG IV isn't as good a bet as one might expect.

[Tehnar]

Psionic power is due out this year. The Rules Compendium is due out also, in September. That seems to be a poor marketing decision if they will add any additional rules to the game.

Do you think the essentials will bring simplified rules to the game, or will they just bring better formatting to make things easier to learn (more examples, a better choice of words when describing powers, etc)?

Personally I think WotC is waiting to see how Dark Sun will go. If the changes they make to the system are popular, I think they will steer any supliments in that direction.

[Kurald Galain]

August 2010, actually.

Oh yeah. Okay, Arcane II and possibly Divine II, then. It's not that this has been promised or anything, but I would expect it. Besides, there have been enough powers listed in Dragon magazine to fill most of Arcane Power II anyway. Note that several AP1 powers were originally printed in Dragon, too.

And the DMG III isn't listed in their Product Catalogue yet, oddly enough

To be honest I don't think there is enough material on DM'ing to warrant printing a DMG3. Personally I would only recommend the DMG1 to beginning DMs because there's nothing in there that an experienced DM doesn't already know, and I see little reason to bother with DMG2.

The Rules Compendium is due out also, in September. That seems to be a poor marketing decision if they will add any additional rules to the game.

I find the need for a Rules Compendium rather strange, unless they intent to reprint all the FAQs in book format. 3E eventually needed a RC because it had rules all over the place in various splatbooks, but 4E's rules are still pretty much all covered in the PHB1.

Do you think the essentials will bring simplified rules to the game,

Yes. Also, less levels.

Personally I think WotC is waiting to see how Dark Sun will go. If the changes they make to the system are popular, I think they will steer any supliments in that direction.

What makes you think WOTC will make any changes to the system for Dark Sun? I for one don't expect them to - just an extra race or two, one more class, some rituals, and a feature akin to Spellscars and Dragonmarks.

[Kurald Galain]

Speaking of which. Does anyone know if PHB Races: Dragonborn is doing well? I see a races: Human planned on the catalog. To be honest that is the very last race I'd expect a racial book for.

I also see they're doing Player Essentials books which, by their description, are indistinguishable from the Foo Power series (except not sorted by power source). Based on this, the Essentials line will actually go up to epic levels too.

And there's an upcoming D&D boardgame, which by its description is indistinguishable from the quickstart light version of D&D. Finally there's the Player's Strategy Guide (with, apparently, a witchalok on the cover) which is indistinguishable from the forums

Yeah, I'm kidding on that last one, but I must say I really fail to understand WOTC's marketing direction. But honestly, if you had to simplify D&D, and you are not allowed to cut races, classes, powers, miniatures, paragon or epic levels from it, what could you do? Replace the d20 by d6'es? Remove minor or immediate actions? Eliminate skills? It moggles the bind!

[Swordgleam]

I think the trick is that 4e already is pretty simple. That is, in comparison to earlier editions, the minimum amount you need to understand to run an effective character is much lower. You can get plenty in-depth, but you don't have to.

Non-gamers don't realize this. Non-gamers see D&D and have terrible flashbacks to the one time their socially awkward acquaintance tried to explain it and rambled for half an hour about saving throws and epic level feats and metamagic. So you have to tell the non-gamers, "Look, this is like D&D, but simple. Simple enough for you. We promise!" Then, once they're hooked, reveal your clever deception.

That's my theory, anyway.

[Tehnar]

I find the need for a Rules Compendium rather strange, unless they intent to reprint all the FAQs in book format. 3E eventually needed a RC because it had rules all over the place in various splatbooks, but 4E's rules are still pretty much all covered in the PHB1.

What makes you think WOTC will make any changes to the system for Dark Sun? I for one don't expect them to - just an extra race or two, one more class, some rituals, and a feature akin to Spellscars and Dragonmarks.

It seems to me that a good time for a Rules Compendium would be when you are finished with the edition, like they did with 3.5. It may be a way of milking a few last $ from it before switching, but I am glad I bought mine for 3.5, and it is seeing frequent use.

As the Dark Sun setting goes, I do hope they modify some rules. Those for hunger and thirst especially, but some additional rules that make the system more gritty.

[Yakk]

From what I've read, it is the "4e Basic Set" as people have mentioned.

It will contain a new build for the classes mentioned (and, in fact, they are going to split the Archer and Melee ranger builds), and new powers from level 1 up to level 30 (maybe? not sure).

It is possible they might even go so far as to give players no choice asto what powers they get -- just one choice of power per level. That makes lots of sense, at least at level 1 -- I could also imagine an inverted triangle, where heroic is 1 power/level (no choice), and paragon/epic is 2 powers/level.

They can similarly restrict feats, or even have their builds auto-pick the first 6 feats that a character gets.

[Mando Knight]

So you have to tell the non-gamers, "Look, this is like D&D, but simple. Simple enough for you. We promise!" Then, once they're hooked, reveal your clever deception.

It's like telling 'em "It's about as simple as Pokémon!"

And by the time they figure out that they've misunderstood you, it's too late.

[Asbestos]

I think if a DDI subscriber could read these for us it might help:

http://www.wizards.com/dnd/Article.a...ramp/2010March

http://www.wizards.com/dnd/Article.a...p/2010February

[senrath]

According to those articles, the Essentials set is supposed to be a more streamlined version of the rules. They're also supposed to form the "core of the Dungeons and Dragons roleplaying experience, moving forward."

Edit: They're also not supposed to replace the PHB, MM, and DMG, but instead provide "an alternate path into the game". Whatever that means.

[Kurald Galain]

It is possible they might even go so far as to give players no choice asto what powers they get -- just one choice of power per level.

This seems likely. Less choice at character generation would make it less confusing for new players. Frankly having to choose one from over a hundred feats can be quite bewildering for a novice.

[Swordgleam]

This seems likely. Less choice at character generation would make it less confusing for new players. Frankly having to choose one from over a hundred feats can be quite bewildering for a novice.

THIS! I still find it annoying. I would love for them to stop organizing feats alphabetically and start organizing them by category: racial (for each race), class (for each class), for each power source, and then by the effect; damage-type stuff like Wintertouched, combat manouvers like Power Attack, skill-related feats like Skill Focus and Long-Jumper, and general feats like Linguist.

That way you can see at a glance which feats apply to your race, class and power source, and then spend whatever slots were left on the sort of thing you'd most like to do - increase your damage, have more combat options, do cool skill tricks, etc.

[Shazbot79]

I don't think that the Essentials line is another ".5" edition. I don't see the point, as they are already selling 3 core books a year.

The Essentials line is just a repackaging intended to ensnare new gamers in mainstream outlets like toystores.

[Runestar]

4e does have quite a number of rules ambiguities where clarification would be great, though they are nowhere near the rules bloat plaguing 3e.

For instance, I think the rules governing interrupts is still a little shaky timingwise. There is a debate raging on in enworld on whether you can sustain a power without LoS.

But enough to fill an entire book? This seems better as a web enhancement or something.

The book about offering to help you min/max your character seems laughable though, given wotc's track record when it comes to optimization.

[Katana_Geldar]

The only thing I don't like about 4E is that there is just...so...much. I'm so glad I run a SW Saga game and we'll have our full set of books by next month.

And I agree that the Essentials is just re-packaging, they want more money out of us, the so-and-so's.

[Shazbot79]

The only thing I don't like about 4E is that there is just...so...much. I'm so glad I run a SW Saga game and we'll have our full set of books by next month.

And I agree that the Essentials is just re-packaging, they want more money out of us, the so-and-so's.

I don't think it's aimed at US.