Hmm, could MitD be more powerful that Xykon?

[amanojaku]

Ok, if we accept that soulspliced V was near Xykon in terms of power, and that spliced V had a tough time teleporting into Xykon's throneroom, and that the MitD was able to teleport 2 people out of the throneroom, thru xykon's precious cloister spell and into the midst of the good guys apparently pretty easily, does it possibly follow that MitD's power > Xykon's?

I'm just curious here as the MitD seems to fear Xykon, yet may be more powerful if it can easily teleport thru a barrier that Xykon created and that gave spliced V a hard time.

Of course the MitD went nappy immediately thereafter, so it might have been a drain on him to teleport thru the cloister, but then again V was just teleporting itself, whereas the MitD was teleporting 2 in one shot which might mean it could have teleported one thru more easily than V did.

[Deca]

If he isn't more powerful than Xykon, why would Xykon bother keeping him around?
I mean, the guy doesn't do anything to help his cause.

[Maximum Zersk]

Ok, if we accept that soulspliced V was near Xykon in terms of power, and that spliced V had a tough time teleporting into Xykon's throneroom, and that the MitD was able to teleport 2 people out of the throneroom, thru xykon's precious cloister spell and into the midst of the good guys apparently pretty easily, does it possibly follow that MitD's power > Xykon's?

I'm just curious here as the MitD seems to fear Xykon, yet may be more powerful if it can easily teleport thru a barrier that Xykon created and that gave spliced V a hard time.

Of course the MitD went nappy immediately thereafter, so it might have been a drain on him to teleport thru the cloister, but then again V was just teleporting itself, whereas the MitD was teleporting 2 in one shot which might mean it could have teleported one thru more easily than V did.

I think people agree that the MitD is pretty godsdamn powerful.

I don't think that the MitD fears Xykon, but remember: the MitD is childish, and seems to treat Xykon like a kind of (evil, nontheless) parent figure of some sort. It's hard to explain really. He lets Redcloak and Xykon make the decisions for him, and only just know is he really thinking about it.

[Herald Alberich]

We can't deduce anything about the MitD from the Cloister, because it only blocks things from coming in. You can teleport out through it just fine.

Panel 5.

[Mastikator]

Probably, bet he casts wish as a free action (no exp cost) unlimited per day or something crazy.

[SoC175]

Well, Xykon was

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easily able to beat the MitD's SR/save in SoD

[factotum]

Cloister doesn't block outbound teleports, it only blocks them coming in, so the MitD's ability to do that bears no relation to how powerful he is compared to Xykon. I'm not saying that he ISN'T potentially more powerful, just that we have no evidence that he is.

[Katana_Geldar]

Maybe, the Monster stomping probably managed to intimidate Xykon somewhat and it clearly does not know it's own strength.

If the MitD is more powerful than Xykon, it is clearly unaware. We do know it's perhaps more powerful than Redcloak though.

[BaronOfHell]

I have no doubt that MitD is way more powerful than anything in a 1vs1 battle, with the only exceptions of God powers / Snarl.

So basicly anything on the mortal plane, known as Earth.

I believe MitD fears Xykon the way a child fears the parent while doing something it shouldn't. It's a matter of authority and believing someone else knows the best for you and do so out of love, and apply to it because of this believe. So MitD does not fear getting punished by Xykon in the way Xykon would try to hurt or destroy the MitD, rather in the way that Xykon would yell at it and take away its power rangers toy.

If Xykon were ever to try to destroy the MitD, I would guess he'd quickly find out he'd lack the power in doing so, and if anything threats the destruction of the MitD, then it's probably the snarl. Which actually makes me think that Xykon realises that it's just a question of time, before MitD realises it's in control of its own life and the ways of Xykon are not what it wants, making it a threat if anything. As the old saying goes, keep your friends close and your enemies even closer, I would guess Xykon might need the MitD during the ritual for its power, or as a triumph in the sleeve, like he intended in the first fight against the OotS, or just a way of entertainment, getting something that's basicly good, to do evil acts, and put up with it for no apparent reason.

[Ancalagon]

To quote Xykon: "Power equals Power"... and the MitDs wil-save surely is NOT power.

[Dark Matter]

To quote Xykon: "Power equals Power"... and the MitDs wil-save surely is NOT power.

Agreed.

The MitD hits the radar as a (perhaps) epic level monster, but Xykon has several hit-below-the-belt counters. For example we've seen nothing that could prevent X from just floating above MitD's reach and just spamming "Energy Drain" on him, and then there's that pesky will save issue.

On the other hand, "epic level monster" implies the MitD might be strong enough to destroy Xykon's physical form even without a gate nearby. But that line of thought makes truly massive assumptions in it's favor. That it's epic, that it could, that it would, and that Xykon wouldn't see it coming.

It's note worthy that when Darth V tried "Disintegration" (Redcloak's signature spell), it bounced.

[derfenrirwolv]

Teleporting OUT of a cloister may not be prohibited, so it wouldn't be a good measure of power against those who had trouble teleporting into it.

[Optimystik]

It's note worthy that when Darth V tried "Disintegration" (Redcloak's signature spell), it bounced.

That was a combination of Xykon's Deflection AC (which stops ranged touch attacks) and V's extremely poor aim at that point (due to trance deprivation.)

[Daefos]

That was a combination of Xykon's Deflection AC (which stops ranged touch attacks) and V's extremely poor aim at that point (due to trance deprivation.)

The Soul Splice is said to have "rejuvenating effects". V does not appear to be trance-deprived at any later point, it's safe to say the Fiends were telling the truth on that count.

More likely, it's due to Xykon having a huge Touch AC (of which Deflection is a part), and V having a base attack bonus of, at best, +7.

[Optimystik]

The Soul Splice is said to have "rejuvenating effects". V does not appear to be trance-deprived at any later point, it's safe to say the Fiends were telling the truth on that count.

Those effects referred explicitly to recharging his slots. We don't know if it rested him or not.

His skin repaired, but that doesn't mean his aim improved any. I admit it's a possibility though.

[Turkish Delight]

Those effects referred explicitly to recharging his slots. We don't know if it rested him or not.

His skin repaired, but that doesn't mean his aim improved any. I admit it's a possibility though.

It seems likely it rested him as well as returning all his spells, as he no longer shows signs of trance fatigue at any point after getting the splices beat out of him.

[Optimystik]

It seems likely it rested him as well as returning all his spells, as he no longer shows signs of trance fatigue at any point after getting the splices beat out of him.

Point. Regardless, Redcloak still has a better chance of connecting with Xykon than he does, due to a higher BAB and more ways to buff his attack rolls.

[veti]

Well, Xykon was

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easily able to beat the MitD's SR/save in SoD

Really? All I remember is

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Xykon casting some kind of geas/whatever on MitD, but no evidence that it actually worked. Although you might be thinking of a different incident which I've forgotten about.

Re the thread: the question comes down to, what do you mean by "power"? I'm pretty sure that Xykon's little rant on that subject to V was foreshadowing something on those lines. The MitD, surely, would have more power than Xykon if he had the faintest idea of how to use it - but he doesn't, and Xykon is not about to give him the opportunity to learn.

[licoot]

If he isn't more powerful than Xykon, why would Xykon bother keeping him around?
I mean, the guy doesn't do anything to help his cause.

He keeps Redclock around.

But he is almost definitely awesomely powerful, just doesn't know how to use it.

[doodthedud]

It seems likely it rested him as well as returning all his spells, as he no longer shows signs of trance fatigue at any point after getting the splices beat out of him.

As well as the main method of returning spells is resting, so it may have been a sort of free rest.

[Optimystik]

Really? All I remember is

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Xykon casting some kind of geas/whatever on MitD, but no evidence that it actually worked. Although you might be thinking of a different incident which I've forgotten about.

It's fairly certain that it worked:

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1) The MitD's eyes went swirly, as do characters in the comic when charmed (See also Belkar, the Azurite prison guard, the junior dragon.)

2) He said "yes, master" to Xykon's orders; a phrase he has never used with Xykon before or since.

3) A weak will save fits his naive personality to a tee (low Wis.)

[Aenophious]

Well if memory serves V was level drained and therefor his BAB would have been atrocious from that as well.

[DeltaEmil]

The level drain didn't affect Vaarsuvius. It did hit the two other soul-spliced soouls, though.

[TreesOfDeath]

Its brute strength is incredible, and can probably surpass Xykon in 1-1 damage dealing. I imagine its pretty tough to kill to, I remeber it laughing at Miko's strikes.

Xykon's sorcerer powers make him more well rounded, and the MITD is just a child. Persides, SOD readers will see Xykon has an easy of dealing with it.

Anyway in terms of brute force? Probably?

Overall, no not really, but it is a force to be recokoned with

[Sholos]

Its brute strength is incredible, and can probably surpass Xykon in 1-1 damage dealing. I imagine its pretty tough to kill to, I remeber it laughing at Miko's strikes.

Xykon's sorcerer powers make him more well rounded, and the MITD is just a child. Persides, SOD readers will see Xykon has an easy of dealing with it.

Anyway in terms of brute force? Probably?

Overall, no not really, but it is a force to be recokoned with

He. The MitD is a he. Also, he wasn't so much "laughing at Miko's strikes" as he was laughing because they tickled.

[Procyonpi]

It's fairly certain that it worked:

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1) The MitD's eyes went swirly, as do characters in the comic when charmed (See also Belkar, the Azurite prison guard, the junior dragon.)

2) He said "yes, master" to Xykon's orders; a phrase he has never used with Xykon before or since.

3) A weak will save fits his naive personality to a tee (low Wis.)

Don't most compulsion abilities grant you a second will save if forced to do something against your nature? I'm pretty sure that the MitD is pretty friendly natured.

[factotum]

Doesn't matter if he gets a second Will save if his Will save is so low that he's likely to fail it again anyway! Also, saves in the strip often go by power of plot...V should have had a better save than O-Chul to shake off the effects of Xykon's Hold Person, but nevertheless O-Chul managed to escape from it while V required Durkon's assistance to do so.

[Deca]

He keeps Redclock around.

But Redcloak is useful. He does stuff for Xykon.

The Monster just sits around and drains Xykon's resources and patience. The only reason he's kept around is because Xykon can use him when all else fails to stop people from killing him. (as said in one of the first strips)

How can Xykon expect the Monster to stop anyone who is powerful enough to stop him? So the MiTD must be more powerful than Xykon. When it comes to raw, brute force anyway at least.

[HandofShadows]

I think the MitD is more powerful than Xykon and Redcloak combined. Considering what he did to the ground just by stomping on it ( http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0477.html ) and he was not even trying to hard. If he actaully wanted to hurt somebody, well a smear might be all that would be left. Also we have seen he has powers and abilites that Team Evil are clearly not aware of (and he is not not really aware of them either). If he starts tapping into those, look out.

[HandofShadows]

We can't deduce anything about the MitD from the Cloister, because it only blocks things from coming in. You can teleport out through it just fine.

Panel 5.

Actually that whole referes to being summoned, not teleported.