[Pathfinder] Elephants and Horses climbing ladders?

[harpy]

So this came up last night in a Pathfinder Society game. An elephant trying to climb down a ladder. I've seen this issue before with horses and other creatures that you normally wouldn't expect to be able to do any climbing.

At the table various arguments were laid out:

Simulationist Argument

Climbing ladders needs a certain amount of anatomical features to be successful. You can't expect a horse to be able to climb a ladder. Perhaps a harness and rope system could be devised to lower the animal down, but in this instance the climb skill for the creature can't be used, or it needs to have a large negative modifier.

RAW (Rules as Written)

Nothing in the RAW seems to exclude certain creatures from climbing due to anatomy. The game is written with the assumption that humanoids are going to be using the skills most of the time, but it stays pretty abstract so that it can apply to any creature.

Gamist Argument

RAW arguments are quite often fit neatly into a gamist zone, but this is a further gamist extension. Animal companions are class features and so having barriers that prevent these animals from being able to continue with the party undermines the assumptions of the class balance.

In addition, the nature of Pathfinder Society games, with their limited time slots, means that if a more common sense approach is used there is little time for problem solving to try and find another way for the companion to join the party. The gamist structure of PFS, with its limited game time, which then injects simulationist expectations of resolution (an open ended time frame) can really hamper the class feature.

Thoughts?

[Heliomance]

I'm pretty sure it is detailed somewhere that you need certain anatomical features to use ladders and such. I think I saw it in the context of centaur characters, not sure where, though. Try Savage Species?

[PinkysBrain]

Dogs and cats can climb ladders as well.

A normal horse/elephant wouldn't exactly try it, but with a very large handle animal DC or if they are intelligent I would let them climb a sufficiently large ladder. The steps would have to be appropriate for their size of course (otherwise it simply isn't a ladder to them).

[Roderick_BR]

RAW arguments are quite often fit neatly into a gamist zone, but this is a further gamist extension. Animal companions are class features and so having barriers that prevent these animals from being able to continue with the party undermines the assumptions of the class balance.

The possibility of having an ability denied is part of a class feature. See the typical problem of paladins that can't take his mount to some places, like the aforementioned high places (ladders) or narrow places, or if a caster has his spellcasting denied (antimagic zone, dispells, unable to move, no components,etc), or a rogue surroundered by zombie plant ooze constructs.
So, "being able to continue with the party" is a situational disavantage, yes, anda foresee one (that's a reason why the paladin's mount can be summoned now, and PHB2 has a paladin variant to replace the mount with other power), but it's hardly something to undermind class balance.

For the RAW thing: Yes, nothing says in the book an animal can't do X action. It also doesn't say the characters doesn't spontaneous combust at any time. When something is not explicit in RAW, that's when RAI and rule needs to intervene.
Player: "This doesn't say if my animal X can climb a ladder."
DM: "Lemme see. Hmm.. ok, he can't."
Player: "This say that mine can climb stuff, like fences and trees, does a ladder qualify?"
DM: "I guess it does, alright."

[Grommen]

or let him try, and have him fall on the party, and kill them.

I bet they will never ask such a silly question again.