Forbiddance Trick

[Lysander]

Forbiddance protects an area from teleportation and from creatures of opposing alignments. Every time a creature with an opposing alignment enters the warded area they have to save or take 6d6 damage for each opposing axis.

Now here's the trick. The spell protects one 60ft cube per level. You can protect a very large area with a single casting of the spell. But what if you instead minimized the area with each casting, only protecting one adjacent 60ft cube each time?

Instead of having one big area that damages creatures when they enter, you'd have many adjacent 60x60x60ft areas, each a separate spell. That means a creature would have to make a new save vs damage with every 60 feet they travel, and each cube would have to be dispelled independently.

The downside is that it obviously takes a lot longer to set up, and requires an extra 1,500gp per cube enchanted. But being able to force enemies to make saves vs 12d6 damage over and over and over again seems worthwhile.

[Private-Prinny]

I don't like the lack of cost-effectiveness. Wasting a ton of money/spell slots on something dependent on your enemies' alignments doesn't seem like a good idea.

[jiriku]

Sure would work. And while you're at it, why not take the sudden maximize feat, and if you set it up one cube per day, you can deal 36 or 72 points of damage instead of rolling the dice. This would also work especially well with a dweomerkeeper cleric, who could bypass the expensive material component cost, and pack on enough metamagic to make a maximized empowered forbiddance.

Of course, the real limit is that it isn't portable, so you're warding your stronghold, not the adventure site. This makes it strong for a BBEG, but pretty specialized for PC use.

[Lysander]

I don't like the lack of cost-effectiveness. Wasting a ton of money/spell slots on something dependent on your enemies' alignments doesn't seem like a good idea.

Alignment is a pretty broad target, it doesn't really limit the spell's application. Aren't good parties fighting evil creatures 99.9% of the time? If you're a holy order of clerics and paladins, it's worth the expense to protect your headquarters against all non lawful good creatures. Likewise if you're a chaotic evil cult it's worth the expense to guard it against law and good.

I think it actually is pretty cost effective. How much would it otherwise cost to make equivalent 6d6 traps along the entire three-dimensional border of a 60ft cube?

[Irreverent Fool]

Alignment is a pretty broad target, it doesn't really limit the spell's application. Aren't good parties fighting evil creatures 99.9% of the time? If you're a holy order of clerics and paladins, it's worth the expense to protect your headquarters against all non lawful good creatures. Likewise if you're a chaotic evil cult it's worth the expense to guard it against law and good.

I think it actually is pretty cost effective. How much would it otherwise cost to make equivalent 6d6 traps along the entire three-dimensional border of a 60ft cube?

Can't magical traps already go off based on alignment, or at the very least have built into them a password or method of bypassing that you may simply share with those you wish to be safe?

obnoxious
sig

[trmptfnfr]

Your team mates/servants of opposing alignments will now have to stay away from the place, if I'm understanding this correctly.
That seems like a major issue.

[BenTheJester]

Dealing damage in 3.5 DnD is really subpar anyway

So you ward your holy site against demons. They teleport in, lose about 1/3 of their HP, and start ravaging your place anyway.

[Flickerdart]

Your team mates/servants of opposing alignments will now have to stay away from the place, if I'm understanding this correctly.
That seems like a major issue.

You can cash out to add a password, or Mindrape them into being Lawful Good.

[Eurus]

Dealing damage in 3.5 DnD is really subpar anyway

So you ward your holy site against demons. They teleport in, lose about 1/3 of their HP, and start ravaging your place anyway.

Forbiddance blocks teleportation/plane shifting/ethereal travel/summoning too (for everyone, not just those of the targeted alignment), so it's not useless by any means. Cheaper than permanent dimensional locks, at least.

[Jack_Simth]

You can cash out to add a password

Which makes it *Very* expensive, with the massive redundancy.

, or Mindrape them into being Lawful Good.

You mean "Chaotic Evil" right? After all, if you're using Mindrape (an Evil spell) on your companions, and the Forbiddance is based on your alignment....

[Foryn Gilnith]

After all, if you're using Mindrape (an Evil spell) on your companions, and the Forbiddance is based on your alignment....

Mindrape yourself into being Good. XD

Forbiddance can be made even more ridiculous, since it's shapeable. Shape it into 10x10x(2160*level) rectangular prisms submerged mostly in the ground.

[Flickerdart]

You mean "Chaotic Evil" right? After all, if you're using Mindrape (an Evil spell) on your companions, and the Forbiddance is based on your alignment....

No, what you do is Mindrape everyone in the world to LG, so it works on everybody, thereby justifying the expenses.

[Lysander]

The answer if you want guests of different alignments is to make some areas of your base either not protected by forbiddance, or have single file tunnels of cubes all created by a single forbiddance spell with a password cutting through areas of cubes created one at a time to be a safe corridor that's cheap to make. Then just add extra defenses to those areas to make up for the weakness.

You could do the same if you want to be able to teleport in and out of your base. Have "teleportation rooms" not covered by forbiddance that people can arrive and depart from, and have them heavily trapped and guarded against intruders.

[Dresil]

It would be cheaper to use Explosive Runes. Casting it is damn near a free scroll anyways. Use some sort of trap where 100 of them fall like leaflets.

[Reluctance]

Remember that Forbiddance affects not only those of opposite alignments, but those of any alignment other than yours. A Lawful Good church may not want its LN or NG, not to mention TN, congregates dropping when they walk in the door. (Yes, you can get around this with a password, but a password known to a sizable number of laypeople will quickly become known to your enemies as well.)

Otherwise, though, you're dropping a decent chunk of change to further ward your home base. If that's worth more to you than magical bling that brings the fight to the enemies, that sounds like a character choice rather than a nifty optimization trick.

[Lysander]

(Yes, you can get around this with a password, but a password known to a sizable number of laypeople will quickly become known to your enemies as well.)

Here's an idea. You make the password: "I vow to not do any evil deed in this place." Then hallow the entrance and attach a zone of truth spell. Unless a person will evil intent makes their will save they won't be able to say the password.

[TheMadLinguist]

Here's an idea. You make the password: "I vow to not do any evil deed in this place." Then hallow the entrance and attach a zone of truth spell. Unless a person will evil intent makes their will save they won't be able to say the password.

That's a bad idea.


"No, little Jeffery the toddler! Don't run through the door of the benevolent church! You'll "*KA-splurt*


"I'm sorry, Ma'am, but you're not allowed to bring your baby into the church. Or it'll explode."

[Godskook]

That's a bad idea.

"No, little Jeffery the toddler! Don't run through the door of the benevolent church! You'll "*KA-splurt*

"I'm sorry, Ma'am, but you're not allowed to bring your baby into the church. Or it'll explode."

And yet there's plenty of precedence for those kinds of restrictions. Hell, in ancient Israel, only men of age 13(or was it 12?) or older could enter most of the temple, and only a select few could move beyond that into the inner sanctums. Merging those kinds of rules with this ward would actually kind of make sense.

[Lysander]

That's a bad idea.


"No, little Jeffery the toddler! Don't run through the door of the benevolent church! You'll "*KA-splurt*


"I'm sorry, Ma'am, but you're not allowed to bring your baby into the church. Or it'll explode."

Jeffery was dumb! He deserved to die!

As for babies, animals, etc. I suppose you could make an antimagic doorway to let them in. The damaging effect only takes place when you first enter the area. If you're in an antimagic field the damage can't occur. So if a small area near the edge was within an AMF you would enter that, the damage effect would be blocked, then if you go further into the forbbiddance you wouldn't take damage because that doesn't count as entering the area. You'd of course heavily guard this antimagic entrance to prevent evil people from entering that way.

[Godskook]

Jeffery was dumb! He deserved to die!

As for babies, animals, etc. I suppose you could make an antimagic doorway to let them in. The damaging effect only takes place when you first enter the area. If you're in an antimagic field the damage can't occur. So if a small area near the edge was within an AMF you would enter that, the damage effect would be blocked, then if you go further into the forbbiddance you wouldn't take damage because that doesn't count as entering the area. You'd of course heavily guard this antimagic entrance to prevent evil people from entering that way.

Nah, you'd have a magic item of antimagic field specially made. You could transport it to wherever you wanted it, assuming you wanted something to enter that didn't match your alignment.

[Jack_Simth]

Jeffery was dumb! He deserved to die!

As for babies, animals, etc. I suppose you could make an antimagic doorway to let them in. The damaging effect only takes place when you first enter the area. If you're in an antimagic field the damage can't occur. So if a small area near the edge was within an AMF you would enter that, the damage effect would be blocked, then if you go further into the forbbiddance you wouldn't take damage because that doesn't count as entering the area. You'd of course heavily guard this antimagic entrance to prevent evil people from entering that way.

Nah, if you're LG, you make a revolving-door with Detect Law and Detect Good "traps" at the entrance. When they detect both Law and Good, they rotate the revolving door (so whoever is standing there gets pushed into the next room). Otherwise, the door stays put. If you don't trip both traps, the door doesn't move. Jeffry the toddler walks in? He's not bright enough (yet) to be anything other than TN. Nothing happens, so he wanders back out. Michael the Paladin walks in? He gets shuffled in (LG).

You'd pretty much need to deliberately bypass or trick it to get into the Forbiddance zone... and then, well... you're not welcome anyway.

[hewhosaysfish]

Sure would work. And while you're at it, why not take the sudden maximize feat, and if you set it up one cube per day, you can deal 36 or 72 points of damage instead of rolling the dice. This would also work especially well with a dweomerkeeper cleric, who could bypass the expensive material component cost, and pack on enough metamagic to make a maximized empowered forbiddance.

Is there any way we could get a reflex save on that instead of will? Because then we could have an explosive forbiddance, which would hurl intruders back out as soon as they run in (if they fail the save).
Slapstick hilarity ensues.

[2xMachina]

You could even bounce them repeatedly!

Boom! To 2nd forbidden area.
Boom! Back to the first
Boom! To 2nd forbidden area
.
.
.

[Evard]

Crystalkeep.com has a metamagic feat that reduces the casting time. Forbiddance has a casting time of 6 rounds and with this +1 metamagic it would become a full round. Therefore a cleric could use this spell during battle as a controller. Of course you should be able to buy the scroll that has the metamagic already put on it...

:D