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2010-04-04, 01:36 AM (ISO 8601)
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Best way to portray a Samurai? [3.5]
Would it just be Fighter or Warblade? CW Samurai is teh suck, I'm aware, but I'm wondering what would be the best way to portray one in E6.
EDIT: For those who only read the first post, I want to avoid the use of the ToB entirely.
Also, this is for E6.
And the style I'm going for is the novel/miniseries Shogun.Last edited by Maeglin_Dubh; 2010-04-04 at 03:47 PM.
-\==/-
I always ask a big question on the League thread right before bedtime so I have something to read while trying to wake up.
Responses of any sort are wonderful.
SpoilerI like coming up with concepts for characters, and will do so often. But writing up crunch, especially for anything that isn't level 1, takes me a while, and after wasting lots of time writing unused characters on Mythweavers, I generally don't make a sheet unless a DM really likes the concept. Sorry.
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2010-04-04, 02:00 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Best way to portray a Samurai? [3.5]
First question: what IS a Samurai to you?
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2010-04-04, 02:01 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Best way to portray a Samurai? [3.5]
Crusader seems fitting for the stereotypical samurai.
Their abilities are all based on being unwavering badasses, sort off what the Samurai has come to represent.
Though an excellent case could be made for warblade too.
I guess you will have to answer Zombimodes question first.Last edited by trmptfnfr; 2010-04-04 at 02:08 AM.
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2010-04-04, 02:06 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Best way to portray a Samurai? [3.5]
I was thinking of retooling the samurai. Although for your purposes, warblade would do the trick. You can add in crusader too if you want to make them particularly lawful/faithful/whatever.
Anyway -
Samurai should have combat styles and depending on the style they choose (which appropriates at given level points), they can empower themselves in that manner. There's more to a samurai then staring somebody down and looking all stoic (which is pretty much all complete warrior does).
The standard signature move of the samurai is there weapon draw and attack, all in one smooth movement.
CW interprets this as, quick draw - but only with the katana and wakizashi (I don't even remember if they remembered to include wakizashi in there) - complete crap in other words.
Instead, make it quick draw with katana and wakizashi - and then allow a them to make an attack as a swift action with either one of them. The katana counts as a light weapon for this purpose as well, meaning you can perform sneak attacks/sudden strikes with it. Make sense? Samurai really love katanas.
At higher levels, if they use this ability against someone they have higher initiative than, then they can make two attacks in a swift action. How rad.
Offense combat style -
Power lunges - Multiple 5ft. steps per round. Full attacks galore.
Repetition Ki - Combine Ki with sword strokes that work. Assuming you made a critical strike, you can threaten automatically the next round, however you have to take 10 on the given attack. So if you hit while taking 10, then you roll to confirm without the need of determining whether or not you threaten.
Relentless in the Kill - Sacrifice attacks of opportunity for additional attacks on a full attack action. Each additional attack imposes a -2 penalty to all attacks. At higher levels, this does not require a full action.
Mounted - Mounted combat and archery as selectable bonus feats.
Debuff Style
Blood Makes Fear - Everytime you kill somebody, you gain a +1 to intimidate for that round per kill. Douse yourself in the blood as a move action and you get to keep half of those bonuses for the rest of combat.
(whatever the Japanese word for 'emotional intensity' is applying to samurai demonstrations in real life... starts with a Z) - Intimidate as a swift action.
Icey Fingers Clutching the Heart Atwixt the Ribs - Intimidate is more powerful, and does more then its usual affects. At high levels you can panic enemies depending on degree of success.
Cold Stare - Use Wisdom instead of Charisma for intimidate. You can project the fact that you are of very clear understanding that your opponent is weak and pathetic rather then having to make yourself seem scary.
Tank/Buff Style
Stance - Acquire dwarven stability. If you are a dwarf already, stacks with dwarven stability.
Stoic - Like paladin's divine grace but uses wisdom instead of charisma. Or constituion - whatever attribute seems more appropriate to samurai (depending on MAD, of course).
Dominate Self - Basically iron heart surge. At high levels, you can gain temporary SR, or gain an additional move action to buff it further, etc.
My Duty is My Life - Greater defense and/or offense against chaotic aligned creatures.Last edited by imp_fireball; 2010-04-05 at 12:51 AM.
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2010-04-04, 02:06 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Best way to portray a Samurai? [3.5]
I usually go with Swordsage. But, as Zombimode already mentioned, it's really a matter of your perception of a samurai.
I should have been a pair of ragged claws scuttling across the floors of silent seas. - T.S. Eliot
Avatar by spectralphoenix.
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2010-04-04, 02:08 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Best way to portray a Samurai? [3.5]
Last edited by imp_fireball; 2010-04-04 at 02:08 AM.
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2010-04-04, 02:09 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Best way to portray a Samurai? [3.5]
For the design I'm thinking, very stereotypical.
Scale armor, katana, possibly wakizashi and yumi as well, but definitely katana. Quickdraw and the ability to intimidate would be excellent, but a way to do that better than the CW version would be great. PsyWar might be able to do it, but I worry about the loss of BAB.
The idea is that he's one of the islanders from a pseudo-Japanese culture that's been colonized by another culture and converted to the worship of Pelor. The colonizing culture is pseudo-Spaniards, so I'm aiming to make him similar to one of the Christian samurai converted by the Jesuit priests, as depicted in the book "Shogun".
EDIT: I also kinda want to avoid ToB for this particular build, as I want to keep it simple for now. I've already got a Warblade in a PBP, so I'd rather not right now.Last edited by Maeglin_Dubh; 2010-04-04 at 02:10 AM.
-\==/-
I always ask a big question on the League thread right before bedtime so I have something to read while trying to wake up.
Responses of any sort are wonderful.
SpoilerI like coming up with concepts for characters, and will do so often. But writing up crunch, especially for anything that isn't level 1, takes me a while, and after wasting lots of time writing unused characters on Mythweavers, I generally don't make a sheet unless a DM really likes the concept. Sorry.
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2010-04-04, 02:10 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Best way to portray a Samurai? [3.5]
Warblade. Avoid Tiger Claw manuevers. Take White Raven Tactics (cause it's awesome) and focus mostly on Diamond Mind and Iron Heart manuevers. Good to go.
JaronK
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2010-04-04, 02:18 AM (ISO 8601)
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2010-04-04, 02:25 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Best way to portray a Samurai? [3.5]
a) Given that most DnD games are fantasies, not period pieces, a "samurai" is no longer a slave to historical accuracy. So,IMHO, Samurai Jack and Samurai Champloo are both legitimate places to draw inspiration for a samurai in your DnD game.
b) Even arguing for historical accuracy, many Samurai were Buddhists, so perfecting oneself would be a realistic ideal for them. (Not to mention the romanticizing of Ronin and that whole approach to Samurai.)
In summation, a swordsage could as much be flavored a Samurai as any other ToB class.I should have been a pair of ragged claws scuttling across the floors of silent seas. - T.S. Eliot
Avatar by spectralphoenix.
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2010-04-04, 02:31 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Best way to portray a Samurai? [3.5]
Would the OA Samurai be better for this? As stated, I really don't want to use ToB.
-\==/-
I always ask a big question on the League thread right before bedtime so I have something to read while trying to wake up.
Responses of any sort are wonderful.
SpoilerI like coming up with concepts for characters, and will do so often. But writing up crunch, especially for anything that isn't level 1, takes me a while, and after wasting lots of time writing unused characters on Mythweavers, I generally don't make a sheet unless a DM really likes the concept. Sorry.
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2010-04-04, 02:32 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Best way to portray a Samurai? [3.5]
The only problem with Swordsages is the limited amount of armor. Then again, a Samurai likely wouldn't walk around the country side in full armor anyway, so it might work.
But yeah, in war you'd use a bow or pole arm. Katanas were personal weapons that were easier to carry than pole arms, so they were a personal defense weapon. Wakasashis were the next step down, used when in close quarters (such as in a hallway).
Not that there's anything wrong with being Samurai Jack... in which case the light armor is fine.
JaronK
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2010-04-04, 02:50 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2004
Re: Best way to portray a Samurai? [3.5]
OA Samurai could work, though you'd have to adapt the Rokugan clan bonus feat lists to fit your setting, or just give them access to the Fighter feat list. Most characters who take this class will either just dip 1-2 levels for the Daisho and maybe better saves/skills at 1st level, or take enough to get into Iaijutsu Master to abuse Iaijutsu Focus damage. Even then, Factotum makes for a better IF build, so OA Samurai is best left as a 1 or 2 level class. For E6, the ancestral daisho is horribly gimped unless you allow a virtual level advancement for it. Even then you're probably better off going something like OA Samurai 2/ Warblade 4 to get a 3rd level stance without spending a feat on it.
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2010-04-04, 10:14 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Best way to portray a Samurai? [3.5]
They are decently accurate for late era, non-soldier mercenaries in Japan anyway, so it's not as though that matters.
b) Even arguing for historical accuracy, many Samurai were Buddhists, so perfecting oneself would be a realistic ideal for them. (Not to mention the romanticizing of Ronin and that whole approach to Samurai.)
PRC mashup of wild plains outrider, order of the bow initiate and cavalier is probably the best representation. Any class to get in would be fine.Me: I'd get the paladin to help, but we might end up with a kid that believes in fairy tales.
DM: aye, and it's not like she's been saved by a mysterious little girl and a band of real live puppets from a bad man and worse step-sister to go live with the faries in the happy land.
Me: Yeah, a knight in shining armour might just bring her over the edge.
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2010-04-04, 10:26 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Best way to portray a Samurai? [3.5]
While it's hardly super-optimal, I always put the Kensai Fighter as the "traditional" samurai, dating back to 2E.
Have a glance at this for a handbook on starting out.
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2010-04-04, 10:37 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Best way to portray a Samurai? [3.5]
Honestly, I've always rather liked Fighter/Monk gestalts for the Samurai. Note too that the bow was one of the key distinctive Samurai weapons for a large section of their history. I'd let him flurry with his sword, use Decisive Strike (PHB2 monk variant) with a bow, and possibly even use Stunning Fist with either.
Of course, that all depends on general campaign power level and whatnot.
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2010-04-04, 11:01 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Best way to portray a Samurai? [3.5]
keep in mind separating Shinto and Buddhism was something that didn't really happen till latter on most samurai would have been a mixture of the too becuase you didn't say im Shinto or im Buddhist you said this is the way the world functions as much as the sun rising and setting its just a fact of life.
Also if you don't want to use tom of battle the oriental samurai is not bad Compared to a fighter) its got a better will save and more skill points and all it loses is one feat.
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2010-04-04, 11:23 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2008
Re: Best way to portray a Samurai? [3.5]
What's your DM's rules on multiclassing? Cause a CW Samurai isn't a bad 2 level dip, and then you can grab something else to round out the character. 2 feats in 2 levels is pretty good, and not only that, you're getting TWF without prerequisites, which may or may not be valuable to you and your rolls.
Avatar by Assassin89
I started my first campaign around a campfire, having pancakes. They were blueberry.
My homebrew(updated 6/17):
SpoilerIn progress:
Prolonged Spell(Fix for Persistent spell)
Weapon Training(replaces Weapon Focus chain)
Shelved:
Ascendant Feats.[New content!]
Finished:
Belts of potionade
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2010-04-04, 11:26 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2008
Re: Best way to portray a Samurai? [3.5]
Depends on the time period, really.
Honestly, I like the current arrangement (which is pretty near to your description). To my understanding, the default is for people to have Shinto ceremonies for birth, for coming-of-age, for marriage, and then have a Buddhist funeral. Shinto is seen as more about life and living, and Buddhism as more about the internal and the beyond.
I'm not Japanese and don't live in Japan though, so take that with a healthy grain of salt.
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2010-04-04, 11:49 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Best way to portray a Samurai? [3.5]
Multiclassing is completely open, it just has to make sense. So CW Samurai followed by four levels of Fighter or Monk would be good. Monk would lose an attack and gain unarmored AC and some unarmed tricks, Fighter would get mad feats. There's probably a better way to do it, maybe even Archery Ranger, allowing for sword and bow goodness.
-\==/-
I always ask a big question on the League thread right before bedtime so I have something to read while trying to wake up.
Responses of any sort are wonderful.
SpoilerI like coming up with concepts for characters, and will do so often. But writing up crunch, especially for anything that isn't level 1, takes me a while, and after wasting lots of time writing unused characters on Mythweavers, I generally don't make a sheet unless a DM really likes the concept. Sorry.
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2010-04-04, 12:09 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2008
Re: Best way to portray a Samurai? [3.5]
Avatar by Assassin89
I started my first campaign around a campfire, having pancakes. They were blueberry.
My homebrew(updated 6/17):
SpoilerIn progress:
Prolonged Spell(Fix for Persistent spell)
Weapon Training(replaces Weapon Focus chain)
Shelved:
Ascendant Feats.[New content!]
Finished:
Belts of potionade
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2010-04-04, 12:19 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Best way to portray a Samurai? [3.5]
Considering the setting, actually, CW Samurai 2 / Barbarian 4 would be fitting, as all non-Iberians are perceived as somewhat barbaric. Also, Samurai can totally get angry. Whirling Frenzy would be even better, as it emulates Flurry with the katana. Call it something other than rage, like No Mind, and it all fits nicely.
Anyone see any way this could be improved?-\==/-
I always ask a big question on the League thread right before bedtime so I have something to read while trying to wake up.
Responses of any sort are wonderful.
SpoilerI like coming up with concepts for characters, and will do so often. But writing up crunch, especially for anything that isn't level 1, takes me a while, and after wasting lots of time writing unused characters on Mythweavers, I generally don't make a sheet unless a DM really likes the concept. Sorry.
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2010-04-04, 12:47 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2008
Re: Best way to portray a Samurai? [3.5]
Sounds excellent to me. Given that we are talking about E6 here, you can eventually cover all the angles as well. Whirling Frenzy, Pounce, and CW samurai 1 and 2 cover the two weapon fighting side very well with a few feats, make sure to take skills in ride, some knowledges, etc, use Open Mind if necessary, and then dabble in archery and polearms later. A Barbarian makes a remarkably good archer, given the additional movement, the avoidance of heavy armor that takes it away, and enough hit points to get in archer duels with relative safety. Rage even helps to some extent, assuming a composite bow built for it.
I would really like to see a game made by Obryn, Kurald Galain, and Knaight from these forums.
I'm not joking one bit. I would buy the hell out of that. -- ChubbyRain
Current Design Project: Legacy, a game of masters and apprentices for two players and a GM.
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2010-04-04, 01:25 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Fl
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2010-04-04, 01:31 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Best way to portray a Samurai? [3.5]
-\==/-
I always ask a big question on the League thread right before bedtime so I have something to read while trying to wake up.
Responses of any sort are wonderful.
SpoilerI like coming up with concepts for characters, and will do so often. But writing up crunch, especially for anything that isn't level 1, takes me a while, and after wasting lots of time writing unused characters on Mythweavers, I generally don't make a sheet unless a DM really likes the concept. Sorry.
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2010-04-04, 02:06 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2009
Re: Best way to portray a Samurai? [3.5]
The knight class seems like it'd be your best bet when combined with some archery and the feat that actually allows you to draw and strike in the same move, leaving your foe flat footed in the process (Flick of the Wrist). However, this only applies to light weapons and katanas are not light weapons...though it's not overpowered or anything so whatever.
But yeah, definitely the knight class with some re-fiddling.Nosce te ipsum
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2010-04-04, 02:13 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Best way to portray a Samurai? [3.5]
1. play a fighter, crusader, swordsage, barbarian, etc...
2. have a master, call him daimyo
3. refer to yourself as a samurai.I do not have a superman complex; for I am God, not Superman!
the glass is always 100% full. Approximately 50% of its volume is full of dihydrogen monoxide and some dissolved solutes, and approx 50% a mixture of gasses known as "air" which contains roughly (by volume) 78.08% nitrogen, 20.95% oxygen, 0.93% argon, 0.038% carbon dioxide, and trace amounts of other gases.
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2010-04-04, 02:26 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Best way to portray a Samurai? [3.5]
NOW COMPLETE: Let's Play Starcraft II Trilogy:
Hell, It's About Time: Wings of Liberty
Does This Mutation Make Me Look Fat: Heart of the Swarm
My Life For Aiur? I Barely Know 'Er: Legacy of the Void
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2010-04-04, 02:43 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Best way to portray a Samurai? [3.5]
If you want to play a realistic version of a samurai:
1. Use a bow as your primary weapon in battle
2. Use a polearm as your secondary
3. Use a Katana as your tertiary
4. And lastly have some skill in grappling
Best class would be straight up fighter with feats focusing on the above.
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2010-04-04, 02:48 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Best way to portray a Samurai? [3.5]
Last edited by taltamir; 2010-04-04 at 02:49 PM.
I do not have a superman complex; for I am God, not Superman!
the glass is always 100% full. Approximately 50% of its volume is full of dihydrogen monoxide and some dissolved solutes, and approx 50% a mixture of gasses known as "air" which contains roughly (by volume) 78.08% nitrogen, 20.95% oxygen, 0.93% argon, 0.038% carbon dioxide, and trace amounts of other gases.