4E L11 Polearm Fighter Retraining Assistance Please

[cupkeyk]

Hi Guys,

We just leveled up to eleven last easter Sunday and I need to make a choice of what to drop for my fighter's feats. I want both polearm gamble and pinning challenge but I am unsure which of my heroic tier powers to lose.

> Mageta the Lion, level 10
> Fighter
> Great Weapon Fighter
> Background: Born Under a Bad Sign
> FINAL ABILITY SCORES
> Str 21, Con 15, Dex 16, Int 9, Wis 16, Cha 11.
> STARTING ABILITY SCORES
> Str 16, Con 14, Dex 14, Int 8, Wis 12, Cha 10.
> AC: 25 Fort: 28 Reflex: 20 Will: 20
> HP: 100 Surges: 11 Surge Value: 25
> TRAINED SKILLS
> Athletics +15, Endurance +13, Heal +11
> FEATS
> Level 1: Weapon Expertise (Spear)
> Level 2: Weapon Focus (Spear)
> Level 4: Toughness
> Level 6: Weapon Proficiency (Great Spear)
> Level 8: Polearm Momentum
> Level 10: Swift Spear
> Level 11: Polearm Gamble
> POWERS
> Fighter at-will 1: Threatening Rush
> Fighter at-will 1: Footwork Lure
> Fighter encounter 1: Passing Attack
> Fighter daily 1: Comeback Strike
> Fighter utility 2: Pass Forward
> Fighter encounter 3: Restoring Strike
> Fighter daily 5: Rain of Steel
> Fighter utility 6: Mighty Sprint
> Fighter encounter 7: Come and Get It
> Fighter daily 9: Victorious Surge
> Fighter utility 10: Mighty Surge
>
> ITEMS
> Controlling Silvered Glaive +2, Rushing Cleats, Dwarven Drakescale +2, Cloak of Distortion +2, Climber's Kit, Standard Adventurer's Kit, Diamond Cincture, Bracers of Tactical Blows, Strikebacks, Casque of Tactics, Everlasting provisions, endless canteen.

(some of these are loot)

My best choice to drop is weapon focus because I gained a 1d6 damage to my oa damage from the bracers, which will now be my bread and butter damage dealer. My friend says drop Polearm momentum because immobilized is better than and redundant to prone. But I think immobilized and prone combined is better than another 2 points of damage. That and Come and Get it (with controlling weapon) and footwork lure (with rushing cleats) can prone baddies even if they're not marked.

Lastly we have no leader, which is why I have a premium rowards self heals.

Other comments and suggstions would also be appreciated.

[Colmarr]

Of the feats you currently have, Weapon Focus is the one I would drop first.

+1d6 damage on OAs will not make up for +2 damage on every attack, but dealing damage is not (or at least shouldn't be unless you deliberately choose otherwise) a fighter's main role.

[Kurald Galain]

I would drop Toughness, a feat which is generally unnecessary above level 3.

[cupkeyk]

@Kurald, despite having a leaderless party?

(Yeah, I do have five heal powers and two of them surgeless, but I have never not dropped to negatives in any given encounter.)

[Kurald Galain]

@Kurald, despite having a leaderless party?

Actually, yes. In a leaderless party, I'd suggest everybody carry potions, and everybody who can spare the feat would multiclass to some leader class. Toughness gives you 10 hp; cleric MC gives whomever needs it [surge value] + 7 hp. That seems a better deal, no?

[cupkeyk]

Given that MP2 just came out, the DM is allowing martial characters a retraining linience. i already retrained cleave for threatening rush.

@ kurald: would this post retrain feat line-up be better?

> Level 1: Weapon Expertise (Spear)
> Level 2: Weapon Focus retrained for Pinning Challenge
> Level 4: Toughness retrained for Initiate of Faith
> Level 6: Weapon Proficiency (Great Spear)
> Level 8: Polearm Momentum
> Level 10: Swift Spear
> Level 11: Polearm Gamble

[tcrudisi]

Given that MP2 just came out, the DM is allowing martial characters a retraining linience. i already retrained cleave for threatening rush.

@ kurald: would this post retrain feat line-up be better?

> Level 1: Weapon Expertise (Spear)
> Level 2: Weapon Focus retrained for Pinning Challenge
> Level 4: Toughness retrained for Initiate of Faith
> Level 6: Weapon Proficiency (Great Spear)
> Level 8: Polearm Momentum
> Level 10: Swift Spear
> Level 11: Polearm Gamble

That's definitely better. One last tip: if you find yourself with a free feat, trade the cleric MC for the shaman MC then take the feat which gives you a 1/enc heal. That way you'll get 1/enc heal instead of 1/day. Also, you'll get a little spirit to piss off the bad guys with, which helps you defend the party even better!

But, the polearm build is a very feat-intensive build... so I doubt you'll be doing that for a while (if ever). However, as you have things set up (with those changes noted above), it's spot-on in terms of what you should do.

[cupkeyk]

Thanks for all the help.

How does beasthide shifting compare to toughness and a leader mc feat?

My queue for feats is a bit long, yeah. I have paragon defences, hide specialization, beasthide shifting, among other things lined up. Are these worth it?

[tcrudisi]

Thanks for all the help.

How does beasthide shifting compare to toughness and a leader mc feat?

My queue for feats is a bit long, yeah. I have paragon defences, hide specialization, beasthide shifting, among other things lined up. Are these worth it?

Meh. I'm not so big on beasthide shifting. I see other feats being worth more. Paragon Defenses is one that I always want to take but never quite have the room for it. It's a solid feat, but there just always seems to be one that's better. But for a tank -- I would do everything I could to squeeze it in. +3 overall to defenses is just sweet. Hide Specialization is also pretty good. +1 to defenses with...

wait a second. Is Hide armor really better for you than Scale?

*note* I just ran your stats, feats and items through the CB. No, hide is not better for you. If you are going to do anything, grab Scale Specialization. Definitely do not get Hide as it will lower your AC by 2 points.

[cupkeyk]

scale is better than hide even if I expect to pump my dex to 18 by level 18?

[tcrudisi]

scale is better than hide even if I expect to pump my dex to 18 by level 18?

Well, I put +2 scale armor on with a dex of 16 and had an AC of 25. When I put +2 hide armor on, the AC was 23. As such, by increasing dex by 2, that will improve AC by 1... making hide ac 24 (ceteris peribus).

Play around with it and do what I did -- put equivalent level magic armor of scale and hide on. Even increase your dex by 2 to get the fair comparison. Scale will be +1 ac. I don't remember what the plate specialization Con req. is, but it might be worth picking up Plate proficiency and plate specialization. But yeah -- as things stand right now for your character (and even at level 18 with +2 more dex), Scale is greater than Hide.

[Kurald Galain]

@ kurald: would this post retrain feat line-up be better?

> Level 2: Weapon Focus retrained for Pinning Challenge
> Level 4: Toughness retrained for Initiate of Faith

Yes, I'd say so.

I'm also not too fond of superior weapons, but the greatspear is probably worth it for the +1 to hit.

[cupkeyk]

This will be great help. I think I will discontinue pumping dex in favor of wis if I am going to stick with scale in paragoin tier.

Also I hear that there is a feat that lets me target dex with spear melee basic attacks. What tier is it? source(other than ddi-- eg dragon article? book)? Name? Prereqs?

[Colmarr]

Toughness gives you 10 hp; cleric MC gives whomever needs it [surge value] + 7 hp.

Oh, that's all sorts of misleading, whether intended or not.

Toughness gives +10 to your ability to soak damage before keeling over. As long as you have surges left, that +10 is there every encounter. It might equate to +40 over the course of an adventuring day. It also affects your bloodied and negative bloodied thresholds and your surge value.

MC leader gives you one "word" per day, for surge value plus 7 (in this case 32). It's no use to you if you're unconscious or stunned or otherwise out of actions because you can't use a minor action to cast the "word", and dazed will pose real problems too. Admittedly the healing can be granted to someone other than you.

Overall, I agree with you that MC leader is a better general option than Toughness but the decision is nowhere near as simple as you made out, especially for PCs that expect to soak a lot of damage (like defenders).

[Inarius]

Well, I put +2 scale armor on with a dex of 16 and had an AC of 25. When I put +2 hide armor on, the AC was 23. As such, by increasing dex by 2, that will improve AC by 1... making hide ac 24 (ceteris peribus).

Play around with it and do what I did -- put equivalent level magic armor of scale and hide on. Even increase your dex by 2 to get the fair comparison. Scale will be +1 ac. I don't remember what the plate specialization Con req. is, but it might be worth picking up Plate proficiency and plate specialization. But yeah -- as things stand right now for your character (and even at level 18 with +2 more dex), Scale is greater than Hide.

15 con is the con req for plate and plate spec. You'd need 2 feats though which would only give you a +1 ac bonus over scale with scale specialization. Scale spec also removes the speed penalty which bumps your base speed back up to 6 plus it frees up a feat in a build that is a bit feat intensive.