Is this character viable at all?

[Zach J.]

Me again. I've realized that a Mystic Theurge is probably too complicated for me at the moment and so as I sat thinking of what would be useful to my party I began to think up a character concept. Here's the first level character minus any equipment or money.

CN Half-Elf Sorcerer
Str 10, Dex 14, Con 12, Int14, Wis 10, Cha 15

Bluff +6 (+9 with Viper Familiar), Concentration +5, Diplomacy +4, Gather Information +4, Listen +1, Sleight of Hand +6, Profession (Gambler) +4, Search +2, Spot +1, Use Rope +4
Deft Hands

1: Disguise Self, Grease
0: Detect Magic, Mage Hand, Prestidigitation, Read Magic

Basically this character is a compulsive gambler who's in debt when the current party meets him. He needs an out so he quickly offers his services to their group. The only problem is...is he useful? I gave him skills that I thought fit him rp wise, but I don't know how much that cripples him mechanics wise. Your thoughts?

P.S. RP wise I thought that when this character's sorcerous abilities manifested he immediately thought that he could use them to feed his gambling addiction. He's a swell guy. :) His next feat will most likely be Eschew Components. I see him as the kind of guy who never has too much money on him at any given point...might be handy to not have to worry about material components.

Edit: If you don't think this character will contribute much to a party beyond laughs feel free to make some suggestions. :)

[Keld Denar]

I'd switch at least one of those spells to something that is more useful in combat. Charm Person is something you do before combat to prevent it. It doesn't do much when your allies are already hacking someone to bits. Diguise Self likewise is handy, but not really in combat. If you picked up...say...Grease, for now, you'd be a bit more versatile in and out of combat. You can always take the other when you reach level 2.

Other than that, it looks like you are on your way to the Fatespinner PrC in Complete Arcane. Profession(Gambler) is one of the prereqs. Its a good PrC, at least for the first 4 levels. Its up to the individual if 1 caster level is worth it for the ability to autokill/charm/etc anyone once per day.

[Zach J.]

Hmm, Grease actually seems like something that this guy would like a lot. Wow, there's actually a prestige class called Fatespinner. I'll have to see if my DM has Complete Mage. That sounds pretty cool. Thanks!

[Trekkin]

I second the idea that at least one damaging power is a good idea. Even a cantrip at least gives you a use in combat beyond missing with a crossbow repeatedly; playing a caster who has to waste a round because all they can do is cast and they have no applicable spells is extremely frustrating.

Other than that, as noted, you're well on your way to the more diplomantic PrCs, and a gambler with that kind of power could make a fantastically fun character. Just make sure you have some way to turn your class's primary function into damage, or at the very least battlefield control in-combat.

Flipping through the Spell Compendium, using Scatterspray on a deck of cards would be both useful and at least somewhat thematic.

[Zach J.]

Grease would work into the battlefield control aspect right? I imagine that would be this guy's intent more than straight up damage. He's someone who wants to have the deck stacked in his favor.


...I'm gonna need more gambling puns. :D

Edit: I'm thinking Disguise Self and Grease for his 1st level spells now and he'll add Charm Person at 2nd.

[Trekkin]

Grease would indeed work. Scatterspray would just make a stack of cards or gambling chips (or dice...)fly apart, explosively unstacking that favorably stacked deck in favor of damage.

If you want more battlefield control, Caltrops is a cantrip.
If you want more gambling control, there is a first-level spell called Cheat.

[Zach J.]

Oh. My. That actually sounds pretty cool.

Hmm, I rolled for wealth and it looks like my lil' gambler's done quite well. I rolled max wealth (120gp) and aside from my spell component pouch (5 gp) and a silver symbol of Olidamarra (25 gp) I'm not quite sure what to purchase. I'm thinking that this fellow probably has at least one change of clothes (a peasant's outfit) for when he's trying to escape the authorities or whoever wants to find him, but that's it. Any suggestions? :)

Edit: Smokesticks and Tindertwigs. I've always wanted an excuse to use these!

[Trekkin]

A crossbow will see you through the early levels where you don't have enough spells to fire one off every round (and there are plenty of tricks arcane casters can pull with crossbows). A light crossbow and some bolts are within your price range, I believe.

Alternatively, a Disguise Kit would fit in perfectly.

[Just_Ice]

Grease is awesome, if not a little bit game-breaking. Basically anything stuck in it makes checks every round to stand, and their movement is reduced to 5 ft. Even if they go prone and wade through it, it's basically always worth it to use grease. Also: greasefires. It screws with combat without directly dealing damage and is very effective against the average low-level creature.

Disguise self is also solid for non-combat situations. Besides limited uses, it's basically strictly better than having the skill.

Your stats are also respectable (no negatives, I've seen a party with two guys of total mods of -1 and 0 after racial additions before) so you should be able to contribute unless the rest of your comrades are powergamers or very lucky, or both.

Definitely change Magehand or something for a damaging cantrip; it's worth it.

[Keld Denar]

Fatespinner is in Complete Arcane, not Complete Mage. Its a 5 level PrC that gives you a couple of neat abilities. One lets you allow a nearby ally or enemy reroll a given save, twice per day, and the main ability is to add "spin" to spells. You get 1 point of spin per level of Fatespinner, and you can apply one or all of it to any spell you cast. It increases the DC by 1 per point.

The 5th level doesn't increase caster level, but it has a rather interesting ability. It allows you to force a single foe to take a -10 penalty on a save for a spell you cast. A -10 penalty is pretty much forcing most foes to fail a save. Thats pretty strong, but many powerful DM "boss" type characters might be protected by the power of plot, making it less useful than you might think. Either way, 4 levels of the PrC are VERY solid for any arcane caster, especially a sorcerer who is already taking most of the prereqs.

[Reluctance]

Skillwise, you'll want maxed Concentration for a caster. Other skills are unimportant, so therefore fine. Skill feats like Deft Hands are a waste when you think of all the actually useful things that feats can do.

The problem with decent battlefield control is that using it properly can be somewhat complicated to use effectively. If simplicity is what you're looking for, direct damage is incredibly straightforwards. There's plenty more effective stuff out there, but it's not like blasting is bad in an absolute sense.

And if you're looking for a charismatic skillful guy who happens to have nifty magical tricks up his sleeve, bards are probably more up your alley. And not a bad choice, either. You'll always have buffing as a backup option, and the class itself is sturdier than a frail caster. This isn't a problem if you know all the CYA tricks, but can keep you going a bit longer while you learn how to properly cheese out the game.

[Lost Wanderer]

Can you fiddle with your stats at all? If you can, you might want to either drop a point of Int and and two of Str to get your Cha up to 16 (making your Charm Person harder to save against) or drop two Str to get Int 14 and pick up either Know(arcana) (if you're the only arcanist) or Use Magic Device (if you lack a divine caster) at max ranks. UMD is kind of meh starting out, but is wonderful at high levels.

EDIT: Just remembered something that'd be perfect for the character! In Complete Adventuerer (or maybe Complete Scoundrel, I don't recall) is a mechanic for Luck Feats. They mainly let you reroll things, or force enemies to reroll things. There's a PrC based around them that's 3/5 spellcasting, too.

Also, see if your GM will let your trade your Summon Familiar class feature for... anything else, really. A Wizard bonus feat, maybe.

[GoodbyeSoberDay]

The 5th level doesn't increase caster level, but it has a rather interesting ability. It allows you to force a single foe to take a -10 penalty on a save for a spell you cast. A -10 penalty is pretty much forcing most foes to fail a save. Thats pretty strong, but many powerful DM "boss" type characters might be protected by the power of plot, making it less useful than you might think. Either way, 4 levels of the PrC are VERY solid for any arcane caster, especially a sorcerer who is already taking most of the prereqs.

The BBEG is probably protected by the power of HD > CL. I say skip the 5th level. Also, at first level, I'd recommend Enlarge Person over Grease. Grease will last you one round at first level, whereas Enlarge Person will last you ten rounds. And nothing's more awesome at first level than giving your big hulking beat stick a strength bonus, weapon damage bonus, and reach.

Also, yeah, the stat line. Needs moar cha, especially if you're going the charm/disguise route.

... Which leads me to the Beguiler. I'm not telling you to play the class, but check it out (PHBII). It seems right up your alley, and it's neigh-impossible to screw up.

[Irreverent Fool]

The BBEG is probably protected by the power of HD > CL. I say skip the 5th level. Also, at first level, I'd recommend Enlarge Person over Grease. Grease will last you one round at first level, whereas Enlarge Person will last you ten rounds. And nothing's more awesome at first level than giving your big hulking beat stick a strength bonus, weapon damage bonus, and reach.

Also, yeah, the stat line. Needs moar cha, especially if you're going the charm/disguise route.

... Which leads me to the Beguiler. I'm not telling you to play the class, but check it out (PHBII). It seems right up your alley, and it's neigh-impossible to screw up.

I'll tell him to play the class then. Beguiler is a very solid class and you don't have the potential to screw yourself over for multiple levels by making a mistake in your spell choices. Granted, as a sorcerer you can use wands and such of those spells you don't have, but Beguiler seems to fit better flavor-wise for what you're trying to do. One thing to remember as a Beguiler though is that you're a bit weak vs undead and other mindless things. In those cases, focus on augmenting the party and illusions.

On spell choice as a sorcerer, you get so few spells that it is of the utmost importance that the spells you have remain useful for many levels. You can swap out old spells occasionally, but you must be picky. Things that don't need the benefit of your casting modifier (buffs and utility spells) aren't worth your slots. Scrolls are fairly cheap.

If you must play a sorcerer, the above posters have already mentioned that it is of vital importance to have at least one combat-useful spell per spell level. This is for your own benefit and that of your party. I've experienced being a spontaneous caster with nothing useful to do in combat. It's not fun and the other players/PCs generally consider you/your character dead weight.

Consider picking up Versatile Spellcaster to extend the use of those lower-level slots (it lets you spend two slots of one level to cast one of your known spells of a known spell one level higher).

Finally, though your story probably supports having a familiar (how better to cheat than with Mr. Kitty's ridiculous stealth being used to fetch you cards?), if you decide not to have one, it is a choice best made now. There are variant abilities available for sorcerer that let you sacrifice the ability to summon a familiar for something more useful. The popular one is Metamagic Specialist (iirc), which allows a sorcerer to apply metamagic feats to his spells without increasing the casting time.

If you do swap out the familiar, you should PrC out of sorcerer as soon as possible as the class offers nothing but full spell progression which can be gained through any number of PrCs. Rainbow Servant is popular.

obnoxious
sig

[Escheton]

halfling luckstealer?

heavy on the luckfeats and chronocharms?

[Zach J.]

I'm not sure if my DM has the PHBII so I think I'm going to stick with sorcerer for now although the Beguiler does sound pretty cool. I'll also have to talk with her about taking some points out of his strength and dex and see if I can up his charisma to 16. Thanks for all the suggestions. I think this character will actually be able to do some good in the group. We're all fairly unoptimized players. Our current party is made up of a human rogue, a human swashbuckler/fighter, a human knight and an elf fighter (my current character). I think that if I get the chance to play this new character that he'll really be able to help out our group. :)

[Zach J.]

Alright. If you check the first post I've been given the ok by my dm to change some stats around using the point buy numbers and with that I've managed to give myself max ranks in Concentration for first level. After that I plan to get at least five ranks in Bluff and start working on Knowledge (Arcana) and Spellcraft. Basically this character doesn't really have any knowledge of what it is he's doing so he won't take ranks in the intelligence based skills until he starts adventuring. It's going to require some juggling in terms of skill points though. So what I'm asking is if there's a cap for the skills Concentration, Knowledge (Arcana) and Spellcraft where more points become superfluous or should I just try to keep those three skills as high as I can?

For instance here is my planned skill progression to level 6:

1: Bluff 4, Concentration 4, Profession (Gambler) 4, Sleight of Hand 2
2: Bluff 5, Concentration 5, Knowledge (Arcana) 1, Spellcraft 1
3: Concentration 6, Knowledge (Arcana) 3, Spellcraft 2
4: Concentration 7, Knowledge (Arcana) 4, Spellcraft 4,
5: Concentration 8, Knowledge (Arcana) 5, Spellcraft 6
6: Concentration 9, Knowledge (Arcana) 6, Spellcraft 8

My planned feats are:

1: Deft Hands
3: Eschew Materials
6: Empower Spell? I should have Ray of Enfeeblement by this point in time and later on I could use it to empower Enervation. What do you guys think?

[jiriku]

When you reach 4th level, be sure to pick up alter self, and swap out disguise self for a different 1st-level spell. Alter does everything disguise does, is harder to see through, and has offensive, defensive, and utility applications as well. It's an all-around useful spell.

Empower is always useful for a sorcerer, and I wouldn't pick it up any earlier than 6th level, so that's an excellent pick. Eschew Materials is probably worthless.

[Zach J.]

Hmm, I suppose I was thinking of Eschew Materials for RP reasons. What would you suggest I take instead from Core?

Thank you for the spell suggestion as well. I suppose I can list what spells I'm planning until about 4th level to make sure I'm not making any major screw-ups:

1st level:
1: Disguise Self, Grease
0: Detect Magic, Mage Hand, Prestidigitation, Read Magic

2nd level:
0: Light

3rd level:
1: Charm Person

4th level:
2: Alter Self
1: Ray of Enfeeblement (replacing Disguise Self)
0: Ghost Sound

5th level:
1: Magic Missile
2: Invisibility

6th level:
0: Dancing Lights
3: Dispel Magic

[Lost Wanderer]

The problem with taking metamagic feats as a sorcerer is that without Rapid Metamagic (which is a feat) they take your entire action. So you can't move and cast at the same time. Which is bad.

Don't take Deft Hands. Waste of a feat. There are many better feats. Even Point Blank Shot, for your crossbow, is a better choice. And if you start using rays it's nice too. Even Magical Aptitude is better. Spellcraft and UMD are useful skills.

Speaking of which, what race are you? You haven't talked about racial bonuses at all.

[Zach J.]

Oh he's a half-elf. I know that they're not very strong mechanically, but I just want to emphasize again that the group I play with does not really optimize.

[Lost Wanderer]

Wow, I had forgotten how bad half-elves are in 3.X. I mean, I guess the skill bonuses are okay... Hmm, ask your GM if you can take Spellcasting Prodigy (okay, that's not a real suggestion, but it would still be nice).

You also get a new 1st level spell at level 2.

Rogue/Bard/Shadowdancer, while not amazing, is solid. Deft Hands is not. A +1 to hit and damage is extremely useful, and it will apply to Ray of Enfeeblement. Which is awesome.

[Zach J.]

Hmm...what about this then?

1: Point Blank Shot
3: Precise Shot
6: Empower Spell

Edit: Also I checked the SRD and it says that sorcerers don't learn a new first level spell until 3rd level.

[Lost Wanderer]

Precise Shot is nice if you're planning to get into rays. And you probably should; Empowered Scorching Rays are fun. Though you might need Energy Substitution when you start fighting fire-resistant things. Might be a better choice than Invisibility; you probably will need some blasting, and metamagiced Scorching Rays are a great way to do that.

You're right about the spells, I was looking at the wrong table.

[taltamir]

I noticed you don't have spellcraft skill points...

[Zach J.]

Just in case you're curious here's the current party...

Alacrite: Level 1 Halfling Rogue (He's currently on a side-quest of sorts. The player hasn't been able to show up for the last few sessions. Will probably stay straight rogue.)
Feat: Deft Hands

Bridget: Level 2 Human Rogue (Our DM's character. She's planning on multi-classing in to bard and fighter and then prestige-classing into Shadowdancer.)
Feats: Acrobatic, Dodge

Calidor: Level 2 Elf Fighter (My current character. I'm planning on prestige-classing into Berserker if he survives that long.)
Feats: Improved Unarmed Strike, Two-Bladed Sword Proficiency, Two-Weapon Fighting

Elias: Level 1 Swashbuckler/Level 1 Fighter (Also human. He's just planning on staying swashbuckler and fighter as far as I know. Fights with a rapier and light shield.)
Feats: Two-Weapon Fighting, Weapon Finesse, Weapon Focus (Rapier), ???

Sir Jett: Level 2 Human Knight (This is the DM's sister. She's a relatively new player and doesn't use the knight's abilities all that often. She'll probably remake a fighter as she also doesn't act particularly lawful. If that happens she'll probably stay straight fighter.)

[Zach J.]

I noticed you don't have spellcraft skill points...

In the DM's setting arcane spellcaster are relatively rare. For that reason and for the reason that this character has never had formal schooling he doesn't have any knowledge of the arcane. Spellcraft wouldn't get much use at this point anyway. The DM has told that we may see clerics once we get higher in level, but she doesn't like making or using arcane types. I doubt we'll ever fight one.

[JasonP]

Looks like a fun character, don't forget the Scatterspray spell which would be really thematic if used with decks of cards or dice (it's in the Spell Compendium but not sure the original book). Also check out the luck feats from Complete Scoundrel if you can, they aren't super strong but would be very fun and thematic with Fatespinner's other abilities.

[Lost Wanderer]

Just in case you're curious here's the current party...

Alacrite: Level 1 Halfling Rogue (He's currently on a side-quest of sorts. The player hasn't been able to show up for the last few sessions. Will probably stay straight rogue.)
Feat: Deft Hands

Bridget: Level 2 Human Rogue (Our DM's character. She's planning on multi-classing in to bard and fighter and then prestige-classing into Shadowdancer.)
Feats: Acrobatic, Dodge

Calidor: Level 2 Elf Fighter (My current character. I'm planning on prestige-classing into Berserker if he survives that long.)
Feats: Improved Unarmed Strike, Two-Bladed Sword Proficiency, Two-Weapon Fighting

Elias: Level 1 Swashbuckler/Level 1 Fighter (Also human. He's just planning on staying swashbuckler and fighter as far as I know. Fights with a rapier and light shield.)
Feats: Two-Weapon Fighting, Weapon Finesse, Weapon Focus (Rapier), ???

Sir Jett: Level 2 Human Knight (This is the DM's sister. She's a relatively new player and doesn't use the knight's abilities all that often. She'll probably remake a fighter as she also doesn't act particularly lawful. If that happens she'll probably stay straight fighter.)

So, um, has your GM given you a way to heal that isn't sitting around for days/weeks letting natural healing occur? If not, for all that is (un)holy, get Use Magic Device, so you can activate wands of Lesser Vigor. Or if your campaign lacks those, Cure Light Wounds.

Also, one two-weapon fighter with a shield, and another with Improved Unarmed Strike. Why? And if arcane classes are so rare, why is the GM making herself a Bard/Shadowdancer?

[Seatbelt]

Grease would indeed work. Scatterspray would just make a stack of cards or gambling chips (or dice...)fly apart, explosively unstacking that favorably stacked deck in favor of damage.

If you want more battlefield control, Caltrops is a cantrip.
If you want more gambling control, there is a first-level spell called Cheat.

If you do this, make sure to name your character Gambit, and carry a quarterstaff. You are now my favorite X-man.