Need some quick thoughts from you all

[Anasazi]

So, I've hit a bit of a writers block, I'm working on this part of a dungeon and the players are presented with 62 challenges. My original idea was to make the challenges riddles, but I'm not so sure I like that route anymore. So I'm looking to the playground for other ideas for the 62 challenges, any help would be appreciated.

Thanks.

[Radar]

If you're adamant on keeping 62 of them, it could be difficult to keep things interesting. I'd propose making at least some of them totally ridiculous (if you're ok with breaking the mood) like: cutting a tree with a herring, cooking contest (to the death if need be) or other things completly out of place.

I'll try to post some more ideas later.

[TreesOfDeath]

Buy/download the Book of Challenges, a dnd book specifcally for this sort of thing.

Thirs also a series of dungeon adventures made of puzzles and challenges, but I forget the name of it. Can soemone help me out?

[Savannah]

I once read a challenge where the PCs had to identify their main strength and then do a task unrelated to that. For example, whoever/whatever was doing the tests would ask the strongest to step forward, and then the PC who stepped forward had to dance a jig. The smartest had to lift a weight, and so forth.

[Anasazi]

lol, good ideas all of you. you've given me something to think on. what it really comes down to is I have this great idea for a room, and a punishment for failing the challenge, that works great with what im working with. So well infact that I dont care to change the room, just the challenges associated with it. the dimension of the room (more like a hallway) is 1 square by 31 squares. each square has a skeleton on both sides that swing their glaive should the a person fail, so the entire team gets hurt for a fail, those not in the room cannot help the person doing the challenge. those in the room have the potential for death should they fail enough. each skeleton was going to be a challenge. I'm not stubborn about the length of the hall, or the number of challenges for that matter, but going with the rest of the trend of the dungeon, its an overwhelmingly large challenge that will take a great deal of time.

Any further thoughts would again be beneficial. :)
thanks again for your help.

[Serpentine]

Still working on it, but if you don't need it for a while I've got a trap-and-puzzle-filled temple you can nick stuff from.

[Anasazi]

I appreciate the offer Serp, but I'm shooting for overly original here, whatever I like from you all I'll change in some fundamental way and make it unique. that way nobody knows what to expect from my dungeon when its finished :)

[PhoenixRivers]

A library with hundreds of books, and no other apparent exits. The door leading in should have the words "False Clues" engraved.

In order to pass, you must find the correct book.

Have one in a red binding, titled simply, "Herrings". (a red Herring)

However, the answer to the riddle is actually "Read Herrings". Reading aloud the first chapter opens a bookcase passage. (because now you've "read Herrings")

EDIT: This is an Advanced Riddle. Many people will take the door's clue at face value (it's NOT a false clue, but a hint that a "false clue" (Red Herring) solves the puzzle), and leave with only a cursory inspection.

[hewhosaysfish]

lol, good ideas all of you. you've given me something to think on. what it really comes down to is I have this great idea for a room, and a punishment for failing the challenge, that works great with what im working with. So well infact that I dont care to change the room, just the challenges associated with it. the dimension of the room (more like a hallway) is 1 square by 31 squares. each square has a skeleton on both sides that swing their glaive should the a person fail, so the entire team gets hurt for a fail, those not in the room cannot help the person doing the challenge. those in the room have the potential for death should they fail enough. each skeleton was going to be a challenge. I'm not stubborn about the length of the hall, or the number of challenges for that matter, but going with the rest of the trend of the dungeon, its an overwhelmingly large challenge that will take a great deal of time.

In my experience, PCs faced with any obstacle tend to attempt at least once to overcome this obstacle by hitting it very hard in the face with sword. If the obstacle actually swings a halberd at them at any point, hitting it in the face will be the only solution we they try, guaranteed.

How do you plan to react when the PCs ignore the given challenges and attempt to smash all the skeletons?

[Totally Guy]

Are you actually going to do 62 individual challenges? I can see that getting tiresome.

I think you need to fast forward through some of this stuff. A riddle is fun once.

Maybe the challenges are not a linear progression but a series of multiple paths. Like challenge 1 could reveal, upon completion, 2 doors. Each of those doors could reveal 2 more, etc, etc.

1 2 4 8 16 32 = 63 "total" challenges (most of which you don't need to plan) and only 6 challenges you do need to plan.

It's a bit of a cop out presenting a choice of 2 doors both of which go to the same challenge so what you could do is label one door "Physical Challenge" and the other door "Mental Challenge" and then prepare a total of 11 challenges, 5 mental and 5 physical and a challenge of your choice for room 1.

[Anasazi]

An interesting route Glug, I like the idea, the question is how to adopt it without loosing my hallway.
See, this all is an epic tier dungeon, so I have to throw some pretty crazy things out there at the players to help slow them down. Some will seem somewhat limiting when you consider the power level of the players, but some limits need to be put in place to help direct the players.

Fish, lol, you are most correct. But specifically, the skeleton's are one with the wall, which is made of a new material that I created for this dungeon, they'll be extruding enough to notice what they are but thats about it. This wont just be some dungeon though, I'll be putting it in print for others to run. Eventually it will spawn a campaign that goes from level 1 to 30 with several different paths. Anywho, they wont actually attack the players should the players attack them, mainly because its highly unlikely that they'll be able to damage this material (note, its not impossible, i dont believe in railroading like that, but it will be extremely difficult, so if they want to spend <insert long time> bashing up the skeletons instead of working through the challenge, then it is an option) But it should also be noted that these arent the type of skeletons to go walking around attacking the players for the sake of attacking, they're keyed to a specific function, in this case, failure. The dungeon is ment to be deadly and taxing, but doable.

I'm more attached to the idea of the hallway than the actual challenges, perhaps thats why I've hit a bit of a block here. Great ideas coming from you all though.

[Anasazi]

Phoenix, lol, a bit too involved, but an awesome idea. I'll have to remember to use that when I'm GMing a group that I know are smart enough to solve it :P
My style is: give the players a choice, to take the route given, the means ment to defeat the challenge, or give them a very difficult path to accomplishing that same challenge through different means. Sometimes it makes me deliciously evil, like the first room of the dungeon, but I figure in epic teir people have alot of things to work with to throw my plans into a muck so its all fair in the long run, lol.

[PhoenixRivers]

Phoenix, lol, a bit too involved, but an awesome idea. I'll have to remember to use that when I'm GMing a group that I know are smart enough to solve it :P
My style is: give the players a choice, to take the route given, the means ment to defeat the challenge, or give them a very difficult path to accomplishing that same challenge through different means. Sometimes it makes me deliciously evil, like the first room of the dungeon, but I figure in epic teir people have alot of things to work with to throw my plans into a muck so its all fair in the long run, lol.

I've placed it in optional sections of dungeons, leading to shortcuts, or the like. It's not needed to get through the place, but makes a nice bonus if they get through it.

When I did it, I actually photoshopped the binding I wanted, wrapped it around a book at the public library, and took pictures of 3 shelves.

I love physical props.

[Anasazi]

lol, thats awesome.
You've given me a good idea for some of the images i was gonna need done to finish the campaign. might work better this way :)

[Torvon]

I once read a challenge where the PCs had to identify their main strength and then do a task unrelated to that. For example, whoever/whatever was doing the tests would ask the strongest to step forward, and then the PC who stepped forward had to dance a jig. The smartest had to lift a weight, and so forth.

We had such a challenge, too, in another game, and it's great.
* First of all, because the other players can sit back and relax.
* Second, because there are things in D&D that CANNOT BE SOLVED BY COMBAT :). It can't harm to point that out once in a while.
* Third, because you can really play your character for once. Try to find riddles or problems that have to be overcome that don't really ... correlate to any skills or feats or talents. Make the players choose the best candidate due to their personality, their background, etc.
* Fourth, because players can shine. They have the group relying on them, it's good for team spirit, of course penalty for not-solving the problem is ULTIMATE DEATH, so ... it's fun.

Go for it :)

ta-ta
Torvon

[Toliudar]

Anasazi, if you really don't believe in railroading, then it shouldn't be a problem to allow the players a chance to bypass the encounter entirely with some kind of epic teleportation, burrowing, etc. Or to give them a chance to grab one of these ultra-hard halberds and use it to parry the attack of the next of the halberds...

Yes, if I were one of the players being asked to pass through a gauntlet of 31 challenges, I'd definitely be looking for a quicker work-around.

[Totally Guy]

Be warned that your challenges ought to have complications for failure that they could impose rather than being dead ends. That could otherwise be 62 chances to halt the game entirely.

All it takes is one misinterpreted riddle and you end up sitting outside a door for hours throwing rocks in a pool while Gandalf thinks about words to describe singular boobs.

Edit: That's really bad because if you make the challenges easy it'd look stupid. If you make them hard... well you have a 1 in 20 chance to roll a one. "This adventure is going nowhere until Mr Wizzid lifts this weight."

[Anasazi]

There is a give and a take for it all, but I dont consider player death to be a grinding halt when it comes to this dungeon, infact, a player entering the tower expecting NOT to die is deluding themselves, such is the point of this dungeon, its continuing the trend and feel of the tomb of horrors. My goal is not to give them impossible tasks, but to layout an epic level challenge that has the potential of killing their demigod level characters and letting them find a way around it. If you build a trap with the means of disabling it in mind, that trap is a failure. The only good trap is one that even knowing the specifics about is still just as deadly.
With that said, Toli, you are most correct, I dont plan on accounting for every option they could potentially come up with, thats the GM's job. If done right, they could deffinately get themselves one of the glaives. And walking through the walls is always an option, but that too has a side effect, and even knowing thats an option they might choose to just complete the challenge.

Glug, you're probably right, I should stick to problems that skill checks and the methodical brain process can solve, not ones that require an understanding of knowledge that I cannot assure the players have.
Either way, at epic level, its the players job to find ways around what I setup, not mine to figure them out for them. This is a top tier challenge dungeon, and its ment to test the players understanding of the game and their characters, there will be absolutely no handholding when it comes to this delve.

Perhaps I will give up on my hallway and build something more challenging on the skill check, playing sense, vs challenging the players to games of life knowledge.
Once again, I appreciate everyones help and suggestions in this matter.