How to Hide your Phylactery, redux

[Heliomance]

1) Construct your phylactery in the form of a playing card
2) Obtain a Deck of Many Things
3) Shuffle your phylactery into the Deck of Many Things
4) Laugh

[Optimystik]

1) Obtain casting thrall
2) Boost his CL artificially (Ioun Stones, Prayer Beads etc.)
3) Have him disjoin the deck
4) Pull out phylactery card
5) Scissors

You can start at step 2 yourself of course, but why take risks?

[PhoenixRivers]

Place it as the focal point for a magical reactor that is the only thing capable of holding an elder evil in stasis.

[Optimystik]

Place it as the focal point for a magical reactor that is the only thing capable of holding an elder evil in stasis.

"A phylactery cannot be part of another magic item, nor may additional magical properties be built into it."

[PhoenixRivers]

"A phylactery cannot be part of another magic item, nor may additional magical properties be built into it."

Oh, it doesn't need to be magically affecting it. It just needs to nonmagically interact with the object in such a way as to be intrinsic to its function.

A focusing prism, for example, or a cornerstone.

Perhaps the device scans for a nearby soul of arcane power once every month. During this time, the lich has self-destructed, to make sure he's in his phylactery to stave off the Elder Evil, by making his soul present.

[Optimystik]

Oh, it doesn't need to be magically affecting it. It just needs to nonmagically interact with the object in such a way as to be intrinsic to its function.

Propping it up?
I don't see how you can claim that a vital component of a magical reactor isn't actually part of it.

The rogue can do an Indy Switch in any case (swap the phylactery for a prism crystal of equal weight/clarity.)

[PhoenixRivers]

Propping it up?
I don't see how you can claim that a vital component of a magical reactor isn't actually part of it.

The rogue can do an Indy Switch in any case (swap the phylactery for a prism crystal of equal weight/clarity.)

Hopefully, they'll have luck in identifying HOW it works, and pulling off the switch.

It'd be a shame to indy switch it for another prism, only to find out 13 days later that the reactor also searches for an arcane soul.

Elder Evils aren't something to guess with. And the Indy Switch didn't work out so well for Indy.

EDIT: And vital in that the Magical Macguffin in that it searches for the phylactery. It doesn't need to be part of it to look for it.

[Optimystik]

I would think that a DM that homebrews a mythic device like an Elder Evil Suppression Reactor would also homebrew a way for the PCs to get the phylactery out of it. Otherwise, we just have a Crapsack Campaign and go play Xbox.

[Rin_Hunter]

Bury the phylactery so deep on the Elemental Plane of Earth that you're hitting diamonds.

Then keep going.

[PhoenixRivers]

I would think that a DM that homebrews a mythic device like an Elder Evil Suppression Reactor would also homebrew a way for the PCs to get the phylactery out of it. Otherwise, we just have a Crapsack Campaign and go play Xbox.

Depends. If the overall goal was for the PC's to find a new way to imprison an Elder Evil?

[JeminiZero]

Place it as the focal point for a magical reactor that is the only thing capable of holding an elder evil in stasis.

You know, this presupposes that there ISN'T someone who actively wants to release the Elder Evil, and who will destroy some phylactery that happens to be in the way.

Depends. If the overall goal was for the PC's to find a new way to imprison an Elder Evil?

The point still stands though. If the PCs goal is to reseal the elder evil, then it similiarly requires the DM to homebrew an alternate Elder Evil sealing method anyway.

Since the entire setup is essentially homebrew, so must its solution (or lack thereof).

[druid91]

You know, this presupposes that there ISN'T someone who actively wants to release the Elder Evil, and who will destroy some phylactery that happens to be in the way.

Make it an elder neutral then, or an elder good. they never get cults in their honor.

[Optimystik]

Make it an elder neutral then, or an elder good. they never get cults in their honor.

Yes, but the PCs would have no reason to leave the device (and attached phylactery) intact in that case.

...What were we talking about?

[PhoenixRivers]

You know, this presupposes that there ISN'T someone who actively wants to release the Elder Evil, and who will destroy some phylactery that happens to be in the way.



The point still stands though. If the PCs goal is to reseal the elder evil, then it similiarly requires the DM to homebrew an alternate Elder Evil sealing method anyway.

Since the entire setup is essentially homebrew, so must its solution (or lack thereof).

Or the players could homebrew it.

I, as a DM, often like to encourage player creativity.

[Optimystik]

Or the players could homebrew it.

I, as a DM, often like to encourage player creativity.

Eh, Freeform isn't really my thing.

They could homebrew a variety of solutions to this problem anyway - a way to break the lich's connection to his existing phylactery, an alternate way to keep the EE sealed, a way to destroy it without weakening the seal, a way to make the EE itself NOM on the phylactery (a ploy; it would think that doing so would damage its prison), etc. So unless the DM is going to say "no" to everything they come up with, it's still not the most effective hiding place.

[PhoenixRivers]

Eh, Freeform isn't really my thing.

They could homebrew a variety of solutions to this problem anyway - a way to break the lich's connection to his existing phylactery, an alternate way to keep the EE sealed, a way to destroy it without weakening the seal, a way to make the EE itself NOM on the phylactery (a ploy; it would think that doing so would damage its prison), etc. So unless the DM is going to say "no" to everything they come up with, it's still not the most effective hiding place.

By that logic, there is no "most effective hiding place".

The only truly safe lich is the one that doesn't adventure, and lives away from the plot.

Therefore: The most effective hiding place is wherever the PC's aren't.

[Optimystik]

By that logic, there is no "most effective hiding place".

The only truly safe lich is the one that doesn't adventure, and lives away from the plot.

Therefore: The most effective hiding place is wherever the PC's aren't.

Exactly

If a lich wants to be left alone, it needs to stay off the PCs radar. Simply stashing its phylactery is not license to create a ruckus. They need to be almost as cautious as if they didn't have one, because there is no way to keep a phylactery totally safe without (1) homebrew/plot which provides a plot way to neutralize the lich anyway, or (2) extreme cheese, which the PCs then have access to by gentlemen's agreement.

[Swordgleam]

I like the solution in the previous thread that went, "The safest place is as part of a powerful magical item in the possession of the party's rogue." But if that's not actually legal, then the safest place is part of the non-magical masterwork sword the fighter's dying father placed in his hand with the last of his strength.

The safest place isn't wherever the PCs aren't, since you don't know where they'll go. It's wherever they already were. PCs have short attention spans. Hang onto your phylactery and lie low. Wait for them to clear out a dungeon of kobolds or goblins or something. Toss it at the bottom of a pit trap in the cleared dungeon. Begin your evil machinations.

[Optimystik]

I like the solution in the previous thread that went, "The safest place is as part of a powerful magical item in the possession of the party's rogue." But if that's not actually legal, then the safest place is part of the non-magical masterwork sword the fighter's dying father placed in his hand with the last of his strength.

The question there is - what happens when the fighter tries to enchant his fathere's beloved sword? Does the phylactery "fall out?" Will the enchantment fail, alerting the PCs that something is amiss? Will the phylactery be completely erased due to a "divide by zero" type error? (Cannot be part of a magic item - you make the sword magic - rule has been broken?)

The safest place isn't wherever the PCs aren't, since you don't know where they'll go. It's wherever they already were. PCs have short attention spans. Hang onto your phylactery and lie low. Wait for them to clear out a dungeon of kobolds or goblins or something. Toss it at the bottom of a pit trap in the cleared dungeon. Begin your evil machinations.

The problem the Lich will have there - empty dungeons tend to attract squatters. They will then kill the lich when her reforms in his former dungeon, alert the PCs, or stumble across the phylactery themselves.

[Divide by Zero]

Does a golem count as a magic item?

1: Build your phylactery into a stone golem.
2: Cast stone to flesh
3: Cast imprisonment
4: ?
5: Profit!

Remember, freedom allows spell resistance. But there are some problems, like whether you are affected by the stasis effect if you regenerate.

[Seracain]

Craft it into a statue of the pc characters, then give it to them as a recognition of all the incredibly and wonderful stuff they have done. Part C of the plan is then complete.

[Optimystik]

Remember, freedom allows spell resistance.

So does Imprisonment
Though you could theoretically give it to any immortal creature and Imprison them.

The problem is that any creature Freedom wouldn't work on, probably wouldn't be affected by Imprisonment either.

But there are some problems, like whether you are affected by the stasis effect if you regenerate.

This is another issue, but RAW doesn't specify where the lich regenerates. The Giant has gone with this interpretation, but it isn't the only one. If the DM doesn't have him regenerate where the phylactery is, the Imprisonment won't be an issue.

[JeminiZero]

So does Imprisonment
Though you could theoretically give it to any immortal creature and Imprison them.

I think the point of using a stone golem was that its spell resistance could be temporarily removed via stone to flesh, letting imprisonment take effect.

What he forgot to take into account however, is that the temporal stasis effect of imprisonment prevents stone to flesh from expiring, so freedom can still be cast without being blocked by SR.

This is another issue, but RAW doesn't specify where the lich regenerates. The Giant has gone with this interpretation, but it isn't the only one. If the DM doesn't have him regenerate where the phylactery is, the Imprisonment won't be an issue.

Actually the real kicker of imprisonment is that the target creature is in temporal stasis. Otherwise it could escape if it had still/silent teleport/ethereal/other stuff. So even if the Lich regenerates deep in the earth, he might still be able to get out if he prepared some appropriate means of escape. Assuming of course that the temporal stasis effect does not extend to the lich.

The flip side of course is that the creature is merely deep in the earth. Anything which knows its location and earthswim or burrow might still be able to find the golem.

[darthava]

This might be a good oppertunity for me to ask something regarding phylacterys.
If I as a Dm want a main villian for my campagne to be a lich.
How would I realisticly hide his phylactry? Im thinking of an Island setting with the players starting on a small island. they start doing quests there and once done they discover there is a ship going out to explore the seas(there are no know other islands.)

On this new island undeath reigns.. think zombies and other undead creatures everywhere. I would like to slip the phylactery in there pockets at that moment in the story. The question is... how?

[Akal Saris]

I guess it depends how much you want the lich to be "smart" versus true to fantasy plots. But the phylactery might have been lost accidentally (stolen?), and is now in the possession of one of the weaker monsters that the PCs encounter. Make it something the PCs will want to take with them, like a pearl-studded teak cigar case.

I don't like the rule that a phylactery can't be an existing magic item - I think it makes sense for a gem of true seeing or similar item to work as a container for the soul, anyhow.

[Swordgleam]

The question there is - what happens when the fighter tries to enchant his fathere's beloved sword? Does the phylactery "fall out?" Will the enchantment fail, alerting the PCs that something is amiss? Will the phylactery be completely erased due to a "divide by zero" type error? (Cannot be part of a magic item - you make the sword magic - rule has been broken?)

Good point. I think it would be a kind of fun plot point to discover the phylactery when the enchantment fails. The fighter now has to either reevaluate his opinion of his father, or find some Good reason for the phylactery to be there.

The problem the Lich will have there - empty dungeons tend to attract squatters. They will then kill the lich when her reforms in his former dungeon, alert the PCs, or stumble across the phylactery themselves.

Yeah, but the squatters will probably be low-level. They aren't going to find the phylactery at the bottom of a pit trap, and if he reforms in the pit trap they likely aren't going to find him, either.

[~LuckyBoneDice~]

My idea:

Step 1. Make friends with a dragon with a MASSIVE hoard of Platinum Coins
Step 2. Make your Phylactery from a Platinum Piece
Step 3. Hurl it into the hoard
Step 4. Have your dragon buddy cast Nondetection on the hoard
Step 5. Laugh maniacally as your enemies search frantically to find it

[Swordgleam]

Step 1. Make friends with a dragon with a MASSIVE hoard of Platinum Coins

The only problem is that now you each have twice as many threats: the people going after the dragon, and the people going after you. There's going to be some overlap there, but it still opens you up to having your phylactery toasted by a bunch of overzealous dragon-slayers.

[~LuckyBoneDice~]

The only problem is that now you each have twice as many threats: the people going after the dragon, and the people going after you. There's going to be some overlap there, but it still opens you up to having your phylactery toasted by a bunch of overzealous dragon-slayers.

Even if they spend all of the platinum, its still in existance

[Swordgleam]

Yes. But not if it gets destroyed in the fight, they melt it down to create a statue or put it into bars for easier transport, etc.