Level Loss that is not Energy Drain

[Beelzebub1111]

Aside from being raised from the dead, what else can cause permanent Level loss without energy drain?

[Marillion]

Casting a spell or creating an item with a really high XP cost, maybe.

[Starbuck_II]

Casting a spell or creating an item with a really high XP cost, maybe.

You can't lose a lv from crafting/spell casting, it was a rule.

[sreservoir]

twinned enervation.

what?

[nightwyrm]

twinned enervation.

what?

Enervation cannot lead to permanent level loss.

[sreservoir]

well, I guess that's what I get for reading energy drain's "functions as enervation" and not bothering to check enervation.

thanks.

[saltythetrain]

what?

I assume you're talking about level loss due to spells/crafting xp costs. It's true. You may not cast a spell or craft an item whose xp cost would bump you down a level. It's a nice preventative rule to keep people from going nuts with wish or crafting some epic item and going back to level 5. I ran into this rule when I wanted to make a Ring of Infinite Wishes.

[Kylarra]

Necropolitan will gank a level (+1k exp) from you.

[Keld Denar]

If you used a Thought Bottle, you lose 500 xp. That should allow you to lose levels. Alternatively, use that Thought Bottle to "save" your XP, go level up a few times, and then use the Tought Bottle to reset your XP back down to when you last saved.

Why you would want to do that, I dunno...

[Irreverent Fool]

You could become the victim of a True Mind Switch and then kill the manifester. Or manifest it and then kill whoever you stuffed into your original body.

obnoxious
sig

[Beelzebub1111]

Okay...so what's going on is basically a Warforged can't lose a level without his own consent? How do they not have a level adjustment?

[Myou]

Okay...so what's going on is basically a Warforged can't lose a level without his own consent? How do they not have a level adjustment?

Because humans get a free feat.

[DaTedinator]

Okay...so what's going on is basically a Warforged can't lose a level without his own consent? How do they not have a level adjustment?

Level loss sucks hard, and any situation where the characters could possibly get more than one (but even just one is still awful) and not heal it are awful situations that will make the players hate the DM. Especially in the (decently likely; there's always one guy with the worst defenses) situation where one guy loses a couple more levels than the rest of the party. Thus, they shouldn't be an issue that often at all.

Keep in mind, it's not just severity of the immunity, it's the likelihood it'll come up. I could have a character with complete immunity to being engulfed in a sun that is currently in the process of going supernova, but unless I'm playing in an unusual (unusually awesome) campaign, that's not actually worth anything.

[PinkysBrain]

At higher level you can simply buy these kinds of immunities with items ya know ...

[hamishspence]

Casting a spell with a Sacrifice component that is "Lose 1 level".

[PlzBreakMyCmpAn]

an unusual (unusually awesome) campaign

You give me tasty, tasty ideas.

[Lysander]

Using Fission to split yourself and your duplicate dying. In a related ability, create an Eidolon and travel to a plane where time passes faster. If 24 hours passes for you before 8 passes for it you could lose a level.

Time alteration. If someone just gained a level in the previous round a Wish could redo events to stop them from ever getting it.

[Lord Vukodlak]

Okay...so what's going on is basically a Warforged can't lose a level without his own consent? How do they not have a level adjustment?

If they die a level is still lost, and while they are immune to energy drain. They do suffer from only benefiting from half of from spells of the healing subschool.
A heal spell only restoring 75hp or a vigor spell's fast healing being cut in half.
*and yes it does apply to vigor*

Even in the event of permanent level loss on the fully living PC's via energy drain. Those can still be restored by a greater restoration if done within a few months of the event.
[restoration can restore one level lost to energy drain with in a week or so]

And by high level the party should probably just carry a wand of restoration.

[Azernak0]

Why you would want to do that, I dunno...

I can see the power in doing that, though it is mostly ridiculous. Say that you are about to kill a really nasty enemy and you are not the big important guy in the group, like maybe you are a Bard.

Drain a few levels from yourself, kill the bad guy, get experience as for defeating him as if you were lower level, thus granting you more experience. After the battle, use the Thought Bottle to regain your levels.

Ridiculous, but it's the only thing I can think of.

[LibraryOgre]

2nd Edition Dark Sun monster, called the Tembo. It was not undead, but it was so bad-ass it could drain a level by biting you.

[Keld Denar]

Ridiculous, but it's the only thing I can think of.

Thought Bottle doesn't work like that. It works purely on XP totals. So, if you saved your XP total, when you reset it, it would be the same as it was when you saved it -500, no matter how much XP you gained in between.

[Temotei]

Enervation cannot lead to permanent level loss.

But it can kill, which might lead to level loss.

Fireball!

[Optimystik]

Casting a spell with a Sacrifice component that is "Lose 1 level".

Like Sanctify the...

Never mind, forget I mentioned it.

[aivanther]

Okay...so what's going on is basically a Warforged can't lose a level without his own consent? How do they not have a level adjustment?

-2 on two stats, and the limited scope of said immunity. Yay, you can't twin enervate it, instead with its crappy dex the wizard can simply rain touch spells down on it.

[Aharon]

Also note that they are immune to energy drain, but not negative levels. Negative levels from sources other than energy drain still do affect them.

[Starbuck_II]

Also note that they are immune to energy drain, but not negative levels. Negative levels from sources other than energy drain still do affect them.

Hmm, you are correct technically, but I think when it says Energy drain it means the DMG/MM condition summary.
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/specialAbi...NegativeLevels

Another way to be immune be a Lumi (MM3). Granted they have 2 Outsider HD and LA 2.