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2010-04-26, 10:54 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2009
Do Natural weapons count as unarmed strikes?
If I'm using a creature with natural attacks that aren't their fists (like Tentacles, bites or claws) do they count as unarmed strikes for the purposes of things like the Monk class or the feat superior unarmed strike? or are unarmed strikes and natural weapons different somehow? if the latter is the case can somebody tell me where there's a passage clarifying this? I've looked in the SRD and several other places but nothing seems to answer my question.
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2010-04-26, 11:02 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Do Natural weapons count as unarmed strikes?
Unarmed Strike is a specific weapon. Natural Weapons is a category. Monks get a class feature that makes their Unarmed Strike count as being in the Natural Weapons category, but other than that the two have nothing to do with each other.
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2010-04-26, 11:02 PM (ISO 8601)
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2010-04-26, 11:03 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Do Natural weapons count as unarmed strikes?
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2010-04-26, 11:05 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2006
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2010-04-26, 11:09 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2009
Re: Do Natural weapons count as unarmed strikes?
Originally Posted by douglasLast edited by Pluto; 2010-04-26 at 11:09 PM.
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2010-04-26, 11:18 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2009
Re: Do Natural weapons count as unarmed strikes?
So, If I were to say, use a Dragon Monk, it wouldn't increase his natural weapon damage 3 categories by taking a level of Monk, superior unarmed strike and improved natural weapon (unarmed strike)*?
*may not be able to use that last one.
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2010-04-26, 11:22 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Do Natural weapons count as unarmed strikes?
Nope, increases in unarmed strike damage have no effect on other natural weapons.
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2010-04-26, 11:26 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2009
Re: Do Natural weapons count as unarmed strikes?
Darn.
Any other class that would help a very young gold dragon that'll eventually be a Paladin mount? keep in mind he'll only be able to take 5 levels.Last edited by Mystic Muse; 2010-04-26 at 11:26 PM.
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2010-04-26, 11:51 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2009
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2010-04-27, 12:03 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2009
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- A place with no pants
Re: Do Natural weapons count as unarmed strikes?
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2010-04-27, 06:23 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Apr 2010
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- The Land of the Cats
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2010-04-27, 06:33 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2010
Re: Do Natural weapons count as unarmed strikes?
The dragon monk would however, be able to first attack with its unarmed strikes, then follow up with all its secondary attack as secondary attacks (which pretty much requires you to blow 2 feats for improved multiattack if you want to hit consistently).
Otherwise, you may simply want to consider advancing the dragon by another age category.
Don't bother with sorc lvs. If you must, blow a feat on martial weapon prof, take 1 lv in sorc, then go abjurant champion. Try to squeeze in the 5th lv somehow, which gives you caster lv = bab, so your spells actually do something.
Mage Armor & Shield will increase the Gold Dragon's AC by 8...
Lesser Orb of (X) is 3d8 damage at CL 5... no save, no SR.
There are a few nifty spells for Dragons in the Draconomicon...
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2010-04-27, 06:46 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Apr 2007
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2010-04-27, 07:05 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Imagination Land
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Re: Do Natural weapons count as unarmed strikes?
Last edited by KillianHawkeye; 2010-04-27 at 07:06 AM.
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2010-04-27, 07:27 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Apr 2010
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Re: Do Natural weapons count as unarmed strikes?
This feat might be of interest
Beast Strike from Dragon 355
When making an Unarmed Strike or Grapple check to deal damage, add your Claw or Slam damage.
Spells you might consider
Level 1
Enlarge Person, Expeditious Retreat, Ray of Enfeeblement, Ray of Clumsyness, Featherfall, Reduce Person(for the small creature feats perhaps), Hail of Stone(if you face a lot of mirror Image users)
Level 2
Web, See Invis, Invis, Alter Self, any of the Buffs, Extend Tenticles(+5' reach), Fuse Arms, Wings of Air, Wraithstrike
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2010-04-27, 07:31 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2008
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Re: Do Natural weapons count as unarmed strikes?
There's a racial substution level for skarnMoI monks which lets them use their arm-spines as unarmed strikes. This basically just means that their unarmed strikes do piercing damage instead of bludgeoning.
See also this.
Eldritch Claws
You can deliver your eldritch blast as a melee attack.
Prerequisite: Eldritch blast 2d6.
Benefit: As a free action, you can form the energy of your eldritch blast into a set of claws extending almost an entire foot from your hands. While your eldritch claws exist you may make up to two claw attacks as natural weapons. You are automatically proficient with your eldritch claws. On a successful attack with an eldritch claw, you deal your normal amount of unarmed strike damage plus your eldritch blast damage. Once you form your eldritch claws they remain until just before the beginning of your next turn. You cannot use your normal eldritch blast ability while your eldritch claws exist. A monk may not use eldritch claws as part of her flurry of blows.Last edited by Prime32; 2010-04-27 at 07:33 AM.
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2010-04-27, 07:47 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Do Natural weapons count as unarmed strikes?
I ave a DM who allowed me to treat natural slam weapons as unnarmed strike for feats and stuff. Why would I make less damage with mi fists after training them to become weapons?
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2010-04-27, 11:06 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2009
Re: Do Natural weapons count as unarmed strikes?
They also didn't read the DMG because according to that a very young gold dragon is unfit for a mount after level 11 according to that. in fact, according to the DMG, A Paladin should have a young adult gold dragon at level 16.
I'll probably use this if My DM will allow it.
Originally Posted by Prime32;8384184
See also [URL="http://realmshelps.dandello.net/cgi-bin/feats.pl?Eldritch_Claws"Last edited by Mystic Muse; 2010-04-27 at 11:08 AM.
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2010-04-27, 11:10 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2005
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- Eberron
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Re: Do Natural weapons count as unarmed strikes?
You've got that the wrong way around, monks get a class feature that makes their unarmed strike count as being a MANUFACTURED weapon. At least based on the Magic Weapon/Fang spells.
You can’t cast this spell on a natural weapon, such as an unarmed strike (instead, see magic fang). A monk’s unarmed strike is considered a weapon, and thus it can be enhanced by this spell.Man this thing was full of outdated stuff.
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2010-04-27, 11:17 AM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2004
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- Enterprise, Alabama
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Re: Do Natural weapons count as unarmed strikes?
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2010-04-27, 06:41 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Sep 2007
Re: Do Natural weapons count as unarmed strikes?
This. Why would you want to improve your claws and bite when you can get even more attacks? Unfortunately the penalty to flurry applies to your natural attacks as well and you have the -5/-2/-0 penalty to your natural attacks depending on how many multiattack feats, but with so many attacks you're bound to hit something even by accident.
Alternatively, if you just want to boost your natural attacks, take a few levels of lion totem barbarian: now you can use all your natural attacks in your charge, and although your natural attacks won't get better, your strength will (when raging) which amounts to the same thing.
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2010-04-27, 06:57 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2009
Re: Do Natural weapons count as unarmed strikes?
1. Gold dragons are always lawful good.
2. Paladins can only have lawful good cohorts. So, no Lion totem barbarian.
3. My DM is not a big fan of charging. I had to change my character because I was using a charging build and Ikept killing things that were supposed to be a challenge in one hit. Plus, if I'd gone with my original plan I would have dealt, at a minimum, 5d8+85 damage on a charge.Last edited by Mystic Muse; 2010-04-27 at 06:59 PM.
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2010-04-27, 09:23 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Do Natural weapons count as unarmed strikes?
This couldn't be INFINITELY more wrong. There are SOOOOO many good low level spells, ones intended for gish type characters, that are absolutely amazing.
Umm.....Blood Wind SpC, allows you to make natural attacks at ranged with a 10' incriment. Its a 1ST level spell.
Um...Scintalating Scales SpC, turns your NA bonus into a deflection bonus, which means that it adds to your touch AC.
Wings of Cover, as mentioned, gives you COMPLETE COVER to any one attack as an immediate action.
Lets not forget Bladeweave. With your dragon's stats, the DC would be decent even from a 2nd level slot. Chance to stun when you hit with a melee attack, swift action cast.
There are a few others. Look up any guide to gishes, and you'll probably find a couple more. Anything that isn't CL or generally not save dependant.
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2010-04-27, 09:44 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2009
Re: Do Natural weapons count as unarmed strikes?
Yeah, I guess you're right about this one.
Um...Scintalating Scales SpC, turns your NA bonus into a deflection bonus, which means that it adds to your touch AC.
Wings of Cover, as mentioned, gives you COMPLETE COVER to any one attack as an immediate action.
Lets not forget Bladeweave. With your dragon's stats, the DC would be decent even from a 2nd level slot. Chance to stun when you hit with a melee attack, swift action cast.Last edited by Mystic Muse; 2010-04-27 at 09:45 PM.
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2010-04-27, 09:47 PM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2004
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Re: Do Natural weapons count as unarmed strikes?
Nothing is innately is immune to daze. No, not even that one.
Daze is super stun (while it has weaker penalty, it is impossible to be immune/okay there is one Paladin spell that grants immunity). However, most delivering abilities of daze are mind affecting.
Bladeweave is not mindaffecting, but it is will save.Last edited by Starbuck_II; 2010-04-27 at 09:48 PM.
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2010-04-27, 09:51 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2009
Re: Do Natural weapons count as unarmed strikes?
My bad. I was thinking of stun (which seems to be one of Many Criticisms of Monks)
Guess I'll go with Sorcerer then and boost my Dragon's Charisma as much as I reasonably can.Last edited by Mystic Muse; 2010-04-27 at 09:52 PM.
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2010-04-27, 09:57 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2006
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Re: Do Natural weapons count as unarmed strikes?
Even if the foe has a decent chance to save, its a swift action spell, so it doesn't hurt your action economy that bad.
Its a pretty decent gig.