How do I break a Monk?

[Acero]

My party has been complaining that they haven't faced much of a challenge (2 munchkins doesn't help)In the campaign im running, the king of one nation is a level 19 Monk. Pretty soon, The PC's are going to have to face him. Since there are no monk PC's in the game, I can make it a overpowered Monk(if its even possible).


How can I do that?

First Thoughts:

Flurry while moving
Proficient with fists
maybe go wolverine claws
have something for fly
Wands of fireball strapped to the inside of his sleeves (for flavor)

Anything else?

[Shpadoinkle]

By making him a full caster and calling him a monk.

[The Rose Dragon]

Does he have to be a monk? Or at least, do the players have to know he has 19 levels of monk class? As he is an NPC, it would be easier to give him whatever powers you think will challenge the party rather than try and make the monk more powerful.

Or of course, you can always go unarmed swordsage.

[Dust]

Here's THE monk minmaxing guide.

[GenPol]

How do you break a monk? Play a druid.

But seriously, I would suggest the Unarmed Swordsage variant. Optimizing a monk is... difficult at least.

[Eternal Drifter]

First: Monks don't really fit the concept of a King, so you may wish to consider a different class.

If that isn't enough for you to choose a different path, two feats from the Monster Manual (Ability Focus and Improved Natural Attack) help out.

Ability Focus for the Stunning Fist and/or Quivering Palm abilites, and Improved Natural Attack to increase the damage of the Monk even farther.

Of course, it may help to know a little more about the campaign. If it is Gestalt, for example... then add fighter class to the monk for more options!

[Doc Roc]

Monk 2 + Tashalatoran/Ardent 17
Monk is pretty weak, but this particular combo is very strong and very well-thought of. You'll end up using Dominant Ideal, and the Mantle trade-out ACF, which requires GM approval, so you know, write stuff down, read it, ask yourself, cackle, the usual routine.

ACFs

[Darkspear]

Homebrew a feat that gives 1/10th (or more) of his speed to AC, reflex and initiative. Also, give him Exceptional Deflection as an early feat, and make Deflect Arrows go from one a round to reflex save per round. So massive AC, massive reflex, and can deflect at least 20 *ranged* touch spells a round.

Nearly impossible to kill, but his damage will still suck beyond belief, just like every monk there is.

[Arakune]

Monk 2/Psichic Warrior 18

Take tashalatora and be happy: now you are a monk with actual class features.

Edit: Ninja'd by doc on tashalatora

[Doc Roc]

Homebrew a feat that gives 1/10th (or more) of his speed to AC, reflex and initiative. Also, give him Exceptional Deflection as an early feat, and make Deflect Arrows go from one a round to reflex save per round. So massive AC, massive reflex, and can deflect at least 20 *ranged* touch spells a round.

Nearly impossible to kill, but his damage will still suck beyond belief, just like every monk there is.

Or just use the bloody Penny Dreadful monk.

[Tinydwarfman]

You're the GM, you don't have to play by the rules. Make it a tri-gestalt Unarmed Swordsage // Monk/Fighter // Cleric/Sacred Fist(or Egoist if you prefer psionics) or something like that. And give him a posse of full casters too, just as backup. Because what king doesn't have his own mages/is one?

[lsfreak]

Agree with Monk2/PsyWarrior18, or unarmed swordsage 20. Call him a monk, they'll only know the difference if they go into metagame. I like the idea of gestalting as well (UASS/PW), it'll make him more versatile without flat-out outstripping the PC's.

Also, don't just have them fight the king, unless he's done something stupid like letting the PC's duel him instead of flat-out fight. Facing a king means likely means also facing his best bodyguards (a pair of crusaders, a batman wizard, and a high-level rogue masquerading as staff, for example), plus plenty of 'mooks' (and by mooks, I mean palace guards that are probably running 8-12th level).

[WildPyre]

Don't twink the monk... twink the KING.

At no time should the players get to face just the king, he should have his royal secret service as well as his normal guards, and then the double super secret assassin squad...

Certainly pimp out his monkness if you want to go that rout, but don't forget he's also the king.

[Draken]

Hit him with a pipe. That should break a few bones.

Oh, wait, wrong type of breaking.

The best I can think of (that doesn't basicaly amounts to "play something else with a monk dip, if even that) is by means of gear. Make items that give spells or powers as constant effects (horribly expensive) or reliably on-use (action intensive), a few examples of good spells and powers to have:

• Divine Power
• Expansion (alternatively, Giant Size)
• Greater Mighty Walop
• Haste

It's what I can think of right now. Surely there are dozens of other fun little spells to use.

[Reynard]

Give him a ------ of Dex and Wis +10, to increase his AC by 10.

[nedz]

Or just use the bloody Penny Dreadful monk.

Has this been play tested?
I only ask because Dance of Sun & Moon gives powers at 12th level for a 10 level class.

[Flickerdart]

Give him a ------ of Dex and Wis +10, to increase his AC by 10.

And then the players kill him and take the items. Bad idea.

[Doc Roc]

Has this been play tested?
I only ask because Dance of Sun & Moon gives powers at 12th level for a 10 level class.

Yes it has, very thoroughly. As you may note, a number of the abilities, Dance being one, are advanced as per other monk abilities from the old monk class. This means that things like the monk belt, or PrCs can push you past 10 effective monk levels for many abilities.

[nedz]

Take 2, possible 4 or maybe 6 levels of Monk, and the remainder as some other class.
Cleric is an obvious option, or dump wis for int via Kung Fu Genious and go with Wizard.

[Doc Roc]

Take 2, possible 4 or maybe 6 levels of Monk, and the remainder as some other class.
Cleric is an obvious option, or dump wis for int via Kung Fu Genious and go with Wizard.

Take a look at Tashalatoran in the feats section of Secrets of Sarlona.

[Reynard]

And then the players kill him and take the items. Bad idea.

Make it Monk-only, then. Or make it require access to Ki, since by that level no-one is going to put 4 levels into monk for a magic item.

[Pluto]

Don't twink the monk... twink the KING.

This is good advice.



But if you want to twink the Monk, get some size increases going (Greater Mighty Wallop, Improved Natural Attack, Expansion, all that noise), toss on Travel Devotion (1/day is fine if there's one encounter per campaign) and blow some resources on flight and teleportation abilities.


Hell, you might even listen to Giacomo for playstyle -- this is the king. He should have NPC casters on hand to give him whatever the hell he likes; he should have the resources to load up on partially charged wands of Wraithstrike or Knight's Move or whatever. It's not like he's constrained by the normal limits of adventuring.

[Eldariel]

Make it Monk-only, then. Or make it require access to Ki, since by that level no-one is going to put 4 levels into monk for a magic item.

Use Magic Device makes that still a bad idea...

Hell, you might even listen to Giacomo for playstyle -- this is the king. He should have NPC casters on hand to give him whatever the hell he likes; he should have the resources to load up on partially charged wands of Wraithstrike or Knight's Move or whatever. It's not like he's constrained by the normal limits of adventuring.

WBL is pretty inconsequential. Why bother with partially anything?

[Flickerdart]

Make it Monk-only, then. Or make it require access to Ki, since by that level no-one is going to put 4 levels into monk for a magic item.

Use Magic Device, DC29 to emulate a 4th level class feature. Not all that hard to get at levels when you're facing CR19 opponents.

[Prodan]

Totemist has a soulmeld that gives you claws and pounce. Sphinx Claws, I believe.

Here's THE monk minmaxing guide.

I disagree.

[Toliudar]

Make his large and immovable throne a magic trap with all sorts of short-term use-activated buffs on it. The +10 wisdom spell from Spell Compendium. Barkskin. Shield. Divine Power. Greater Blindsight. Whatever. Then he'll come off of his throne acting like the wrath of god, still have monk mechanics, and there's no gear that the group can reasonably use (even if they take over the kingdom, it's hard to use the buffs except there in the throne room.

Alternately, give him a non-transferrable item of shapechange. A 19th level monk is going to be much scarier in the form of a planetar, or storm giant, or Cornugon.

[Zergrusheddie]

How does Claws of the Beast work with Monk?

[Reynard]

Use Magic Device, DC29 to emulate a 4th level class feature. Not all that hard to get at levels when you're facing CR19 opponents.

Then make it need Empty Body, Slow Fall 90ft, Timeless Body, Tongue of Sun and Moon, Quivering Palm, Diamond Soul, Abundant Step, Diamond Body, Greater Flurry, every monk-specific feature there is.

[DarkEternal]

Go the Neverwinter Nights game advice way and make a Pale Master Monk. Every melee attack he makes, the PC's need to save or die.

[Flickerdart]

Then make it need Empty Body, Slow Fall 90ft, Timeless Body, Tongue of Sun and Moon, Quivering Palm, Diamond Soul, Abundant Step, Diamond Body, Greater Flurry, every monk-specific feature there is.

Then why not just make it an inherent bonus, instead of pointless fiat? "You take the +10/+10 item off the body of the boss that you worked hard to defeat. Except you can't use it because I said so." If you're going to be so arbitrary, at least go the distance and don't needlessly disappoint and antagonize the players.