How to run a massive combat?

[huttj509]

Ok, so we have the forces of humanity fighting the forces of bad monster humanoid-dom. Army vs. Army.

Party level 5. Un-nerfed druid, rogue with 1 level swordsage for flank stance and a couple maneuver options, fighter 2/swordsage other who dual wields and is basically an agile fighter type, and NPC fighter who focuses on defense.

I'm planning to have a level 5-ish bard leading a large section of the bad guys, having a magic item to enhance the range of his bardsong, giving the monsters an edge in the battle, unless the PCs can get in there and take him out.

However, the monsters wouldn't be standing round while the party attacks the bard, but I'm not really sure how to deal with the massive numbers involved in the battle. If I use, say, orcs, they'll rarely be able to hit (party AC varies from 17-23 or so), but if some trolls step up I have a dead party.

Humanoids known to be fighting for the Black Queen (bad guy leader): Kobolds, Orcs, Goblins, Bugbears, Ogres, Trolls, and a rare dragon or two (two known to date).

I guess I'm mainly not sure how to deal with the swell of combat and warriors around the party as they attack.

Of course, after defeating the bard they'll see a dragon swoop over the whole battle and drop the known actual leader off inside the courtyard of the castle they're defending, can't have a real lasting victory this short into the campaign. :-)

[Yuki Akuma]

Bard song has no range, technically. It affects any ally who can hear it. Get a very loud horn and you're set...

Mass combat generally doesn't work well unless you abstract it. Say each army is one 'creature' and HP represents losses and it should be okay.

[Nidogg]

Have the Pc get involved in the battle if they want if they want to Just snipe the bard use concetration/survival to aviod them getting lost in the confusion of battle.

[Radar]

First and foremost (and kind of obvious): prerolls. It can substantially speed up the combat. Players would probably still want to roll on their own, but you can use prerolls for all NPCs on both sides.
Second of: if a group of NPCs is cought in a fireball or any other massive spell that deals random damage or requires a save, you can just use a gaussian distribution to determine how many fall down and forego rolls entirly. The same can go with attack rolls for a massive barrage of arrows, that monsters can fire at PCs.

[huttj509]

What I was already planning was for the main tide of battle to shift with the PC's progress. Bot bother rolling for npc vs. npc, just having it a large enough group that the bard's bonus gives the monsters an advantage, but with him gone the humans can hold their own, barely.

I'm more concerned about having, say, 8 orcs at a time attacking each PC, and it just turning to a slogfest through a field of crpses until the monsters get lucky.

And yes, the magically enhanced bardsong range would be so he could be heard over the clash of battle. Think magical mic and amp sort of thing, cause battle gets loud.

[Darius Rae]

The first book of the Drow War Campaign has some good rules about how to handle large battles. It breaks them down into waves, and has modifiers based on who is leading the forces among other things.

[lsfreak]

Okay. Party AC of 17-23. Standard orc has an attack bonus of +4, plus an extra +1-3 for the bard (level/optimization depending), and replace the worthless Alertness feat with Weapon Focus. Assume that half of them don't attack, but instead use Aid Another for an extra +2 for those that do attack (rolled along with the die for the actual attack roll, just to save time). A few of the orcs will likely attempt to flank the PC's as well. Now the orcs that are attacking have anywhere from +6-12 attack bonus (depending on Inspire Courage bonus, Aid Another, and Flanking), something that's a much more credible threat to the PC's.

[Yuki Akuma]

You can't use Aid Another on attack rolls.

[Redrat2k6]

I made a House Ruled "Minion" Template based off the Minions from 4e. They have lower CR only 1 hp and a +2 bonus to AC and Fort saves.

Whenever they would go into negative HP they would make a fortitude save DC of 10+1/2 HD+5 of the creature that made the attack. If they succeeded they would be unaffected.

When I use this with pre-rolls massive combat is fun and quick.

[lsfreak]

You can't use Aid Another on attack rolls.

In melee combat, you can help a friend attack or defend by distracting or interfering with an opponent. If you’re in position to make a melee attack on an opponent that is engaging a friend in melee combat, you can attempt to aid your friend as a standard action. You make an attack roll against AC 10. If you succeed, your friend gains either a +2 bonus on his next attack roll against that opponent or a +2 bonus to AC against that opponent’s next attack (your choice), as long as that attack comes before the beginning of your next turn. Multiple characters can aid the same friend, and similar bonuses stack.

[olelia]

Course..you have to be able to provoke which could be a problem.

[Yuki Akuma]

Wait what?

I've been living a lie!

*runs outside, screaming*

[deuxhero]

Make them a mob (DMG2, improved version is on homebrew somewhere_

[Dienekes]

This one here?

[deuxhero]

That is it.

[Optimystik]

Doesn't Heroes of Battle have rules for large combat?

[Broccoli21]

cry havoc has rules for d20 mass combat

[lsfreak]

Doesn't Heroes of Battle have rules for large combat?

Kind of. Heroes of Battle's large-scale combat basically comes down to 'if one side has heroes, the other side does too, so have them fight each other.' It's more focused on squad-level combat, rather than mass-versus-mass.

When Warcraft RPG book Alliance Horde Compendium has massed combat rules, but I'm still not sure the OP was looking for mass combat so much as a way of making a large-scale battle interesting without just turning into dieroll-dieroll-dieroll-dieroll <5 minutes later> Okay, I had one hit, the fighter takes 4 damage.

[mabriss lethe]

you could always set it up something like this.

You've been assigned several squads to cover you as you make a swipe at the bard. They manage to keep most of the goons from attacking you but occasionally an enemy squad will break through and you've got to face them.

[hamishspence]

Miniatures Handbook had rules for units.