Challenge - Paladin or Impostor

[Lin Bayaseda]

Sitiuation: An armorer traveller, riding a white horse, arrives in a small village. He claims to be a Paladin. And indeed, he manages to demonstrate many attributes of paladinhood - heals wounds by laying hand, cures diseases, unsummons and summons his mount, etc.

Complication: But some of the villagers are suspicious. Some say he's a clever impostor. How can they tell a real Paladin from, for example, an evil Cleric/Wizard impostor?

Task: Prove beyond reasonable doubt the visitor is indeed a member of a Paladin class in good standing.

Limitations: It's a small village. Powerful magical items are unavailable. High-level spells are unavailable. Characters with high ranks in Knowledge(whatever) and Spellcraft are unavailable. Whoever solves the task needing the least amount of obscure lore, magic items and spells, wins.

[Flickerdart]

Get another Paladin and Smite Evil the first one.

[Eurus]

Get them to fall.

EDIT: Well, technically that would prove without a doubt that he's a Paladin not in good standing. I suppose you could help him get an atonement or something after.

[Boci]

Don't allow him to ready any spells, then see what he can do.

[Lin Bayaseda]

For reference, "evil Cleric/Wizard" was just one of the options. We're trying to find the wider case of "any Impostor", not a narrow case of "evil Wizard/Cleric".

Second, how do you know the Smite worked? Ok, he takes some damage from the attack. You're not sure how much exactly.

Don't allow him to ready any spells, then see what he can do.

Ok, this could be a step in the right direction. Please describe how are you going about it?

[senrath]

Well, a simple Detect Good spell would eliminate any chance of Evil people impersonating the guy. Throw in a Detect Law spell, and the only people who would slip by are Lawful Good.

[Lin Bayaseda]

Well, a simple Detect Good spell would eliminate any chance of Evil people impersonating the guy. Throw in a Detect Law spell, and the only people who would slip by are Lawful Good.

Le sigh. Remember, the villagers are the ones limited to simple items and spells. The visitor is not. Misdirection? Or one of the many magical items that provide similar effects? Sure, why not, he might have it. Villagers are still suspicious eventhough he gives away a Good and Lawful aura.

[Boci]

Ok, this could be a step in the right direction. Please describe how are you going about it?

Assuming the villagers have a basic knowledge of how clerics and wizards gain their spells for the day, ask him to do his stuff, then he goes off to bed, and ask him to do it again first thing next morning without any time to prepare. If they are a true apaldin, they will be use to how deceptive evil is and should be understanding of the villagers suspicion.

[Milskidasith]

Without letting him reprepare spells, ask him to heal everybody in town for one point of damage. To do this, you simply get a decently tough guy to smack everybody in town with a blunt object nonlethally. If he can do it more than *insert max number of cantrips a cleric can have* he's a paladin. If the wounds ever fully heal, instead of partially healing (minimum 2 damage from the smacks, healing *one* damage), then he's lying or incapable of controlling his own lay on hands.

EDIT: Of course, this relies on the villagers knowing what a paladin is, and knowing the basics of how vancian casting works. If they don't know, then why bother, this exercise is pointless because every reasonable solution is going to have an answer of "They're too stupid to understand your magickey concepts, so you fail. Try again until you guess the 'right' logic."

[Ormagoden]

Get a dude you know is evil to sit in the same room as him...
Or ask him to do a line up with good folks and one bad guy.

/thread

[Milskidasith]

Get a dude you know is evil to sit in the same room as him...
Or ask him to do a line up with good folks and one bad guy.

/thread

This would do? All it would detect are if paladins are incredibly smite happy, and it requires somebody the villagers know is out and out evil. Plus detect evil is a cleric spell.

[hamishspence]

There are some Paladin-only spells- asking him to prepare and cast one, without any gear, might do it.

But an Archivist could cast one of those too.

[Boci]

Or ask him to do a line up with good folks and one bad guy.

/thread

You would have to do it multiple times, since detect evil isn't paladin only.

Without letting him reprepare spells, ask him to heal everybody in town for one point of damage. To do this, you simply get a decently tough guy to smack everybody in town with a blunt object nonlethally. If he can do it more than *insert max number of cantrips a cleric can have* he's a paladin. If the wounds ever fully heal, instead of partially healing (minimum 2 damage from the smacks, healing *one* damage), then he's lying or incapable of controlling his own lay on hands.

EDIT: Of course, this relies on the villagers knowing what a paladin is, and knowing the basics of how vancian casting works. If they don't know, then why bother, this exercise is pointless because every reasonable solution is going to have an answer of "They're too stupid to understand your magickey concepts, so you fail. Try again until you guess the 'right' logic."

This is a better thought out method than mine. It should work.

[Milskidasith]

There are some Paladin-only spells- asking him to prepare and cast one, without any gear, might do it.

But an Archivist could cast one of those too.

Lay on hands. You can divide it up. You can't divide up cantrips, and you don't get bonus cantrips. One point lay on hands prove that he's a paladin.

Well, you'd also need to strip search him for wands of cure minor wounds, and he might be another class with healing features, so you check the healing *and* confirm his spellcasting is limited to the subset of people that are either paladins or can't do lots of one point heals.

Of course, a paladin with no charisma would fail my test too, but that's MAD for you.

[hamishspence]

On Detect Evil: Is it even visible to anyone who's not the caster?

They might see him saying "yup- that guy's evil" but they might not be able to confirm that Detect Evil was used.

[Greenish]

Well, you'd also need to strip search him for wands of cure minor wounds, and he might be another class with healing features, so you check the healing *and* confirm his spellcasting is limited to the subset of people that are either paladins or can't do lots of one point heals.

Factotums are always better.

[Milskidasith]

On Detect Evil: Is it even visible to anyone who's not the caster?

They might see him saying "yup- that guy's evil" but they might not be able to confirm that Detect Evil was used.

It relies on the assumption they have at least a few dozen identified as evil people, the imposter has no ranks at sense motive to get a read on people, and a ton of people for each evil guy so that the paladin can't get lucky.

Again, my method works at proving that he is either a paladin with decent charisma or an imposter/paladin with bad charisma, so it seems to be the best so far, if the villagers are somehow totally ignorant of how to stop him from preparing spells.

Factotums are always better.

I don't recall factotums having the ability to cast off the paladin spell list, so you can eliminate them. They are part of the subset I listed of "unlimited healing but not paladin compatible casting."

[aivanther]

Throw him in a well with a lot of corpses, see if he catches a disease?

Put him in a maniacal situation where he can save a dying orphan or himself, but not both. If the orphan dies you got an imposter, if the guy dies, well problem solved anyway...

[Lord_Gareth]

Alright, lemme think of a few ways to do this. A lot of it depends on the DM's interpretations of a few rules, but;

Smite Poke: If the village has a local paladin, have the two shake hands. At the moment of contact, the local paladin attempts to smite evil via skin contact (akin to, say, playing patty cake with a wight). Injury indicates evil, but does not necessarily validate the visitor's paladinhood.

The Vigil: This works best if the "visitor" cooperates. Seal him in a prison cell - the town's "drunk tank" should do, as long as it has at least a window with which to watch the prisoner - for as long as possible. Keep the visitor naked while imprisoned and instruct them - with many apologies - to keep themselves alive using their lay on hands ability. If spells or items are being used, simple time will eventually either A. kill them or B. run them out of spells, at which point any attempt to prepare spells may then be observed. If extremely paranoid, forbid the visitor from speaking during this period. After a period of approximately twelve days, any non-undead, non-construct being will have succumbed. As for those two events, there's;

Hospitality: Cast a cure spell (a local Adept can provide) and see what happens. This weeds out undead and constructs.

[Milskidasith]

Throw him in a well with a lot of corpses, see if he catches a disease?

Put him in a maniacal situation where he can save a dying orphan or himself, but not both. If the orphan dies you got an imposter, if the guy dies, well problem solved anyway...

Cure disease is a cleric spell. Fortitude saves are *also* class features of a lot of things, and cheap rings do the trick as well. As for the orphan situation... self preservation isn't evil, nor is killing yourself for the amusement of clearly evil villagers.

[Milskidasith]

Alright, lemme think of a few ways to do this. A lot of it depends on the DM's interpretations of a few rules, but;

Smite Poke: If the village has a local paladin, have the two shake hands. At the moment of contact, the local paladin attempts to smite evil via skin contact (akin to, say, playing patty cake with a wight). Injury indicates evil, but does not necessarily validate the visitor's paladinhood.

The Vigil: This works best if the "visitor" cooperates. Seal him in a prison cell - the town's "drunk tank" should do, as long as it has at least a window with which to watch the prisoner - for as long as possible. Keep the visitor naked while imprisoned and instruct them - with many apologies - to keep themselves alive using their lay on hands ability. If spells or items are being used, simple time will eventually either A. kill them or B. run them out of spells, at which point any attempt to prepare spells may then be observed. If extremely paranoid, forbid the visitor from speaking during this period. After a period of approximately twelve days, any non-undead, non-construct being will have succumbed. As for those two events, there's;

Hospitality: Cast a cure spell (a local Adept can provide) and see what happens. This weeds out undead and constructs.

Since when did sitting around doing nothing cause damage/lay on hands cure hunger?

[Lord_Gareth]

Starvation and dehydration cause damage in D&D. Lay on hands cures damage. A paladin can, in fact, cure himself faster than he can die.

That's right folks. A paladin who never heals anyone else never needs to eat or drink.

[Jair Barik]

What if the imposter starts resorting to enlarged cure minor wounds or some other meta magic. Still and or silent cure minor wounds?

[Lord_Gareth]

What if the imposter starts resorting to enlarged cure minor wounds or some other meta magic. Still and or silent cure minor wounds?

They have to run out of spells eventually. Frankly, the only absolute garuntee is if that guy is willing to be kept in a cell for a year; the villagers can hold him as long as they feel like/he cooperates.

[Lapak]

The easiest solution is quite simple.

If this is an evil impostor, he is presumably in the village for a reason. Present him with the opportunity to do whatever it is an evil impostor would want to do: show him the map to an artifact that the village elder has hidden in the fields, bring out the newborn Saviour of Prophecy, or whatever.

If he does the evil deed, well, he's not a paladin. If he doesn't, he's either a paladin or he might as well be because he's not doing the evil deed!

EDIT: The "it doesn't matter" portion also applies if there is nothing of consequence and the guy is passing through by sheer chance. If he acts like a Paladin for the time he's in the village, for all intents and purposes he is one to them.

[Lord_Gareth]

Ah, but the challenge is to prove that he IS a paladin, not that he ISN'T evil. My above example does not rule out, for example, an awakened skeleton paladin. In fact, it may lead to one's death, but that's the best I can come up with, frankly.

[Greenish]

Starvation and dehydration cause damage in D&D. Lay on hands cures damage. A paladin can, in fact, cure himself faster than he can die.

That's right folks. A paladin who never heals anyone else never needs to eat or drink.

Elans look like human, and powerpoints are regained simply by sleeping. (Not to mention that an elan psion can keep himself alive over a year even without regaining power points.)

[Lord_Gareth]

Elans look like human, and powerpoints are regained simply by sleeping. (Not to mention that an elan psion can keep himself alive over a year even without regaining power points.)

God damn it >.>

You know, one would have to resort to some seriously evil measures to pull this off. Have the visitor wound themselves daily in addition to starving. That should cut out the Elan problem, though the paladin may, at this point, have to open up a can of whoop-ass on these villagers. Or at least send in some clerics with the ability to cure paranoid schizophrenia.

[Lapak]

Ah, but the challenge is to prove that he IS a paladin, not that he ISN'T evil. My above example does not rule out, for example, an awakened skeleton paladin. In fact, it may lead to one's death, but that's the best I can come up with, frankly.

It doesn't have to be proven absolutely, merely 'beyond a reasonable doubt,' according to the OP. If he acts like a Paladin and displays Paladin-like powers and refrains from evil when presented with a reasonable temptation, well, he's probably a Paladin. Doubting it WOULD be unreasonable.

[lesser_minion]

Actually, you cannot heal damage from starvation or thirst by any means whatsoever until you've had a drink and a good meal.

Page 304 of the Dungeon Master's Guide.

To make sure that didn't become sensible, it's also impossible to starve to death. You merely keep taking nonlethal damage until the DM starts crying.