[3.5] Race and Class for a Gestalt Dragonfire Adept?

[Zovc]

I'm in a Gestalt game, and we just got TPK'd, so we're all rerolling.

I was pretty envious of the party Warlock, he never ran out of gas, and I've been curious about the Dragonfire Adept for some time now.

What is a good class to compliment the Dragonfire Adept? I was considering trying two new things at the same time and making a DfA/[Incarnum class].

In addition to my second class, I can't decide what race I should play, either. Mongrelfolk seems pretty cool, giving me +4 to Constitution.

[PId6]

Dragonborn Mongrelfolk is fantastic with its +6 Con at LA+0. You're also able to take Metabreath feats, which is quite nice for a DFA. For your second class, a warblade or crusader can improve your bab/HD and give you some nice offensive maneuvers and defensive stances.

[JasonP]

If you're doing DFA//Incarnum then you should probably go Totemist, there are even a few soulmelds in Dragon Magic that fit this concept really well (and I think all but 1 are for Totemist).

[Machiavellian]

I suggest taking the "Fullmetal Dragon" Approach:

Warforged as Race (All of the Immunities)
Class: Dragonfire Adept 20//Sorcerer 10/Dragon Disciple 10

[subject42]

Seconding Dragonborn Mongrelfolk DFA//Totemist, especially if you take Vow of Poverty.

[Godskook]

I'm always a big fan of the DFA/D-Shaman gestalt.

There's two sub-builds, based on a choice that you must make. There's the Dragonborn DFA-Shaman, and the Syberis DFA-Shaman, and Dragonborn/Syberis are mutually exclusive unless your DM will allow you to ignore the fluff restriction that dragonborns can't have dragonmarks.

The Dragonborn DFA-Shaman focuses on having two tactical nukes in his arsenal to launch as need to deal with the 'dangerous' foes, while using his less-potent DFA breath to lay down the constant smack. Entangling Exhalation is a given, but your first build-specific feat will be Quicken Breath, to enable you to drop your racial/Shaman breaths without cutting into your DFA's routine. Then grab Heighten/Clinging/Lingering. After that, decide how much more you want to invest in your 2 swift-action nukes versus what else you want to do. There's not any prestige classes that work well for this build, so grit your teeth for the long haul.

The Syberis version focuses primarily on boosting Five-Fold Breath of Tiamat, using every means possible. Here, you're more worried about having draconic auras up, so double aura is great, to give you some healing and a boost to some of the saves involved in the nuke(It can be boosted clear up to at least 60d6 damage, 5 saves, each for half of that element). For this, making Heir of Syberis is required, as is the feat breath of syberis. THere's an item in MiC that gives you a +1d6 to breath weapon damage, and you'll want to dip ToB for a healing maneuver I can't remember at the moment.

[2xMachina]

I built a cheesewrought DFA//Factotum the other day for Neverending Dungeon.

It's a skillmonkey with damage. Not yet started the run though.

I'd say it depends on your team mates. What other roles do you need to fill?

You're a BC. Can do Fear effects. (stacking is nice).

You can try fear Aura, and stacking up with Intimidate to make them cower/panic.

[Zovc]

So far, my group is:
Zopyrus - Hamatula HD 1/Mineral Warrior LA 1
Svari - (Water Orc?) Monk 1/Lycanthrope HD 1 (were-polar bear)

...and we are level 1, since two(?) posts referenced being way past that. :P

[deuxhero]

Housecat. At level 1 house cats are deadly.

[Yorrin]

Yeah, Dragon Shaman is obviously flavorful and such, and certainly a decent option. Totemist will give you some nice raw power too.

You might also want to consider something with strong passives. CoDzilla comes to mind (DMM Cleric moreso than the Druid). Amusingly enough, you do it with Warlock for pretty decent results. EB would add a touch of versatility to your damage, and you can grab some good day-long passives from there that would just generically improve the build.

Another amusing idea is to go swift-hunter. It's a build that can certainly apply to your breath weapon, and is a tried and true way to be a mobile battlefield nightmare.

[Zovc]

Is Totemist really better with Dragonfire Adept than Incarnate is?

Looking at Dragon Shaman, what is a Swift-Hunter?

[Prime32]

Just make sure you take the Entangling Exhalation feat.

See also handbook.

Gestalt: Hooooo boy. Gestalt makes for some crazy, kung-fu, epic, super-powered, world-shattering, DBZ-style action. Dragonfire Adepts can be an AWESOME half of a Gestalt combo, and make you look and feel like sex on the beach - dirty, naughty, and stylish. First choice here would be a caster, preferably one with access to metabreath spells a la the Draconomicon. These include such hits as Rebuking, Dispelling, Stunning, and even Enervating (negative levels on a breath weapon - yes PLEASE!). Other good choices could include skill monkey/casters (yay for Beguilers!), or even a nice fat Aoo-based warrior-type (thin Crusader with Stand Still - you'll be your own backup). If you're going the warrior route, be sure to trick out the metabreath feats, running up your recharge rate, and then use the other rounds to whomp your foes with martial strikes. Good times. Hard to blow a gestalt, but focus on complementing the DFA's significant at-will de-buff and utility abilities with damage and casting and you'll kick butt and take names.

Maybe Shifter (beasthide) DFA 20//Crusader 4/Warshaper 5/Ur-priest X/Prestige paladin of tyranny 2
Be sure to pick up the Humanoid Shape invocation (if not you can drop the last level of warshaper).

[Zovc]

If I wanted to dump Charisma as a Mongrelfolk Dragonfire Adept, would I not get the Dragontouched feat as a bonus feat? The feat has a prerequisite of 11 Charisma, but the entry in Dragonfire Adept doesn't mention the prerequisites.

[Yorrin]

Is Totemist really better with Dragonfire Adept than Incarnate is?

Looking at Dragon Shaman, what is a Swift-Hunter?

IMO Totemist is the only Incarnum class ever worth playing- they get all the best stuff. But I'm prolly just biased.

And this is a swift hunter. Traditionally done with a bow-user, but I think one using a breath weapon could play rather well.

If I wanted to dump Charisma as a Mongrelfolk Dragonfire Adept, would I not get the Dragontouched feat as a bonus feat? The feat has a prerequisite of 11 Charisma, but the entry in Dragonfire Adept doesn't mention the prerequisites.

Unless the class feature says otherwise I believe the default is that you gain the feat even if you don't qualify.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

DFAs don't have many drawbacks from wearing heavy armor, since breath attacks are supernatural. I'd probably go with some sort of super tanky build on the other side of it. Maybe go something like Dwarf, DFA 20// Ranger 3/ Psychic Warrior 3/ Deepwarden 2/ Iron Mind 10/ Psychic Warrior 2. Get Shield Specialization, Shield Ward, Focused Shield, (Greater) Heavy Armor Optimization, Deflective Armor, and be sure to get Invest Armor and gain Iron Will via the Otyugh Hole. Once you get DR from Iron Mind pick up Thick-Skinned in Savage Species. Your Ranger combat style won't matter due to wearing heavy armor, but you'll still be able to use wands of Ranger spells if your Wisdom score is high enough, which it should be anyway for Psychic Warrior.

[Ramza00]

If past level 8. Factotum for more standard actions.

If past level 5. Druid for wildshape getting into high con forms.

You need dragonborn to go with mongrelfolk.

Also while cheesy the multiheaded template is awesome for dragonfire adept if you can make the other heads hd/la go on the non dragonfire adept side of gestalt. If you do this try to be a dragonwrought kobold or an outsider race so you get some decent hitdice.

[demidracolich]

DFAs don't have many drawbacks from wearing heavy armor, since breath attacks are supernatural. I'd probably go with some sort of super tanky build on the other side of it. Maybe go something like Dwarf, DFA 20// Ranger 3/ Psychic Warrior 3/ Deepwarden 2/ Iron Mind 10/ Psychic Warrior 2. Get Shield Specialization, Shield Ward, Focused Shield, (Greater) Heavy Armor Optimization, Deflective Armor, and be sure to get Invest Armor and gain Iron Will via the Otyugh Hole. Once you get DR from Iron Mind pick up Thick-Skinned in Savage Species. Your Ranger combat style won't matter due to wearing heavy armor, but you'll still be able to use wands of Ranger spells if your Wisdom score is high enough, which it should be anyway for Psychic Warrior.

I think you forget the fact that their invocations have arcane spell failure chance unlike a warlock's.

[Godskook]

And DFAs can be built to not use invocations while fighting, eliminating the need to care about ASF.

[demidracolich]

I agree that most aren't but some are, anyways I do not play DFA very often. Also by out of battle use do you mean just use it outside of combat over and over again until it succeeds?

[Zovc]

I agree that most aren't but some are, anyways I do not play DFA very often. Also by out of battle use do you mean just use it outside of combat over and over again until it succeeds?

That, or you take your armor off, use the ability, then put your armor back on. :3

[demidracolich]

Um, how long does that take?

[Godskook]

I agree that most aren't but some are, anyways I do not play DFA very often. Also by out of battle use do you mean just use it outside of combat over and over again until it succeeds?

Yep, that and the fact that a lot of the good DFA invocations are 24-hours long.

There's also plenty of ways to get really good armors with 5% or lower ASF. Full-Plate can only go down to 5% without dipping spellsword or convincing your DM to allow a fey+gith crafted armor. But 5% ASF is incredibly reasonable for an invoker who's not relying on his invocations to keep him alive.

[Zovc]

Okay, so far I'm a Dragonborn Mongrelfolk Dragonfire Adept 1/ [N/A] 1.

+6 Constitution
-2 Dexterity
-4 Charisma

I have a free feat. My DM let me use the Special entry under Dragonborn's "The Mechanics of Rebirth" sidebar to trade DFA's Dragontouched feat for Entangling Exhalation.

Is there any class that can use an absurdly high constitution score better than an incarnum class? What feat do I want to take if I am a Totemist?

[Zovc]

Nevermind, DM is not allowing Entangling Exhalation. Are there any good feats that require the Dragonblood subtype?

Anything, technically, is better than getting Dragontouched when I already have the Dragonblood subtype.

[demidracolich]

Um, which aspect have you picked from dragonborn?

[Zovc]

I expect Mind to be the most useful, there won't be much jumping or falling in this dungeon, and I can already breathe fire.

[Gauntlet]

If you take the breath one instead (Heart or something?) you get a Breath Weapon with a cooldown. This is really rather nice, because it means you qualift for Metabreath Feats- I think they're in the Draconomicon- check the DFA handbook which was linked earlier I think.

[PId6]

Draconic Aura is basically Dragon Shaman Lite, but requires character level 3. Draconic Senses is... better than nothing. Everything else ironically requires either Dragontouched or Sorcerer 1. Also, is your DM banning Entangling Exhalation or are you just not allowed to switch Dragontouched for it? If the former, you might want to reconsider DFA, since that is definitely their best trick at low-mid levels.

And yeah, Heart lets you take Metabreath feats. Well worth it.

[Greenish]

I think you forget the fact that their invocations have arcane spell failure chance unlike a warlock's.

Just to nitpick, warlock invocations have ASF, they just ignore it in light armour.

[Zovc]

Dragonfire Adept's Breath Weapon entry, emphasis mine:

Link
Breath Weapon (Su): At 1st level, you gain a breath weapon that you can use at will as a standard action. Each time you use your breath weapon, you can choose whether it takes the form of a 15-foot cone or a 30-foot line. This breath weapon deals 1d6 points of fire damage; a successful Reflex save (DC 10 + 1/2 your class level + your Con modifier) halves the damage. As you gain levels, your breath weapon's damage increases, as shown on Table 2-1.

You are immune to the effect of your own breath weapon (but not to other breath weapons that produce similar effects, even those of other dragonfire adepts).

At 10th level, your cone-shaped breath weapon's range doubles to 30 feet, and your line-shaped breath weapon's range doubles to 60 feet.

It seems pretty clear to me that I already have a breath weapon.