(4e) KotSF or Scales of War?

[Ozreth]

My group of 4e n00bies and I are looking to play some more of this edition. We started with my own home brewed game but decided that we want to delve into some of the official modules first. I would like to start with a level 1 module and take it as far as I can through linked modules.

We prefer more RP type stuff, story is important. So which caters more to this aspect? Also, does Scales of War use the same setting as KotSF? The one that can be used for all of the official modules?

And can Scales of War be found as a phsyical copy now or still only online?

Thanks : )

[Mando Knight]

Scales is Online-Only for the whole thing (goes through Epic, ending up with you having to do epic things with epic scalies), but the early chapters are free.

KotS isn't quite as good as Scales, as far as I've heard. Both are set in the same "super-generic" setting, which is to say they were written as standalones that can be dropped into most custom settings. You could even run them in Eberron or FR, though since the focus of the epic end of the campaign is on the dragon god twins, who aren't present in Eberron and only minor deities in FR.

[Saph]

I've played the early stages of both and to be honest, I found that both were grind-fests. Very little RP, the module seemed to be just a long string of combat encounters. I'd suggest looking elsewhere if you want something RP-heavy.

[oxybe]

you can download Keep for free in my sig, in the modules link.

i never played scales, but KoTS is more of a traditional dungeoncrawl. now i haven't played the updated version but after the 1-2 introductory fights, newer players or those who just aren't used to party tactics tend to get murdered by one or two particular fights.

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the irontooth fight is a particularly difficult one for people unaccustomed to a working in concert, rather then 4 individuals who happen to be on the same team.

now KotS is a module. and like all proper modules aren't really meant to be run as is and should be modified to fit your group better.

if you want an idea of the module being run, WotC ran it for the penny-arcade & PvP guys: http://www.wizards.com/DnD/Archive.a...egory=podcasts (series 1)

[Ozreth]

Hm, neither sounds very promising. I prefer physical copies of modules though so I guess I'll just kick it off with Keep on the Shadowfell. Thanks for the insight guys.

[Balain]

I started our group with Kots and use a few of the 4E modules, as well as some merp stuff, birthright stuff, some ideas from fallout 3.

As was said, the modules are a way to start, but they work much better if you tweak them and alter them for your own group.

We really like 4E, but it is like all other RPG you need to use what works for you guys and scrap what doesn't. Using the rules for 4E(which are good) lack real roleplaying. So use the main rules but actually roleplay the skill encounters instead of using the 4E rules.

[Mando Knight]

So use the main rules but actually roleplay the skill encounters instead of using the 4E rules.

Well, skill challenges as a formal part of the system is a new thing that WotC's trying, and while they cribbed off of other peoples' notes, it's not super-fantastic and they admit it. If you're going to have formal rules to run them, you'll want to look at all the material they've put out since DMG 1 about them so you can figure out how they'll work best for you.

[TheEmerged]

...KoTS is more of a traditional dungeoncrawl. now i haven't played the updated version but after the 1-2 introductory fights, newer players or those who just aren't used to party tactics tend to get murdered by one or two particular fights.

Spoiler

Show

the irontooth fight is a particularly difficult one for people unaccustomed to a working in concert, rather then 4 individuals who happen to be on the same team.

Now, your mileage may vary and all that but...

Spoiler

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I've run that fight with two different parties and the listed tactics, and neither had a problem with it. Now that's a different thing from saying they breezed through it... Most/a lot of the enemies are minions and the right classes/races can come close to trivializing the first part. Now the second group I put through it burned dailies early and had a harder time with the boss, but I don't think it's the unfair fight some people make it out to be.

[Balain]

Well, skill challenges as a formal part of the system is a new thing that WotC's trying, and while they cribbed off of other peoples' notes, it's not super-fantastic and they admit it. If you're going to have formal rules to run them, you'll want to look at all the material they've put out since DMG 1 about them so you can figure out how they'll work best for you.

Hmm That is good to know. Was it DMG 2 they talked more about skill challenges? I have yet to go through it. I do see where the skill challenges are useful. But some things it doesn't work for us. So for us we use them in a way that seems different than the intent in the rules. So in an adventure the party is talking to 3 ghosts. If one of the pcs tries to do something to prove his strength to the ghosts he gets a roll. If he wants to talk about history, he would get a roll to see if he knows what he is talking about, then a roll to see if he makes the challenge.

[Mando Knight]

Was it DMG 2 they talked more about skill challenges?

Both DMG2 and about half of the Dungeon magazines released so far. The Reporter can show you how to fail the DMG2's version.

[Tiki Snakes]

Just to say, KotS in hard-copy is far, far less good than the version made available for download, ironically enough.

Personally, not having played it, I'd still vote for Scales of War, because if nothing else the backgrounds and so on that were published for/through that module are some of the most fun and interesting available.

[Another_Poet]

Ozreth, I would recommend you use the Reviews section of RPGnet:

http://www.rpg.net/reviews/

You can search for any gaming product by title or browse alphabetically to see if anyone has written a review for it. Currently there are two KotS reviews but none for Scales of War.

This is a really good tool if you see any other prospective modules at your FLGS and aren't sure whether they're any good.

Hope you're game goes well!

ap

[Dust]

Honestly, I'd vote for neither. Scales of War felt too.....unconnected for my tastes, and my group felt similarily. If they chose not to pursue a very small lead into the greater scheme, the story missed too many steps to make sense nearer to the end, and I had to scramble to keep players on track as well as fill in the gaps.

Personally, I recommend most of these.

[Ozreth]

Personally, not having played it, I'd still vote for Scales of War, because if nothing else the backgrounds and so on that were published for/through that module are some of the most fun and interesting available.

Hm this sounds nice...Im definitely on the fence now. I guess I'll just have to read through a bit of both and see how I feel.

And thanks to the guy who recommended rpg.net. good stuff.

I'll be sure to report back once I've started something up.

[ImperiousLeader]

I haven't played it, but there's a new level 1 published adventure: HS1 The Slaying Stone, and it's been getting some good reviews, it doesn't seem as grindy as your other options. It's shorter, but also less expensive.

[Hzurr]

For my 4E group, I ran H1, about half of H2, H3, and am currently on P2 (we skipped P1 completely, since it sucks pretty bad. I filled it in with my own stuff, and stuff I stole from other DDI adventures - particularly some of the "madness" trilogy).

The H series has some good stuff, and there's a lot of potential. I strongly recommend tweaking it to your groups style of play. Introduce your own subplots, flesh out the NPCs, etc. I almost recomment going through H1 just so you have an easy transition to H2 (which is much, much better). H2 has some good encounters, and Thunderspire Mountain has some very neat NPC and locations that are mentioned in the module, but not 100% fleshed out.

H3 is...interesting. You won't be getting to it for a while, but it has some neat stuff, and some problems.


But back to H1:

Flesh out the characters in the town some. There are really interesting characters there, that can add a lot to the plot if you let them. Another thing (that was done exceptionally well in the WotC/Penny-arcade podcast that was linked to earlier, is the use of the Goblin Splug. You can get a lot of mileage out of him.

I said it before, but let me re-emphasize/rephrase it: There's good stuff in these modules, but don't run them as written. Introduce your own touch, your own flair, your own plots, your own whatever to make it apply to your PCs, and it can be really, really good.

[Ozreth]

I haven't played it, but there's a new level 1 published adventure: HS1 The Slaying Stone, and it's been getting some good reviews, it doesn't seem as grindy as your other options. It's shorter, but also less expensive.

Ohh thanks I'll definitely have to check this out.

Seems like the general consensus is any of it can be fun if tweaked correctly, makes sense : )

[Ozreth]

So I've read a number of reviews on the slaying stone at this point and for $14.99 it seems like a must have. A number of people are saying its one of the best low level modules that WotC has done to date. The packaging seems great, the layout and open ended story sound very promising and the maps are pretty : )

It is now on hold at my local game store. Picking it up tonight.