Spells and feats that would not have passed a DM if presented by a player?

[Albonor]

One of the often disregarded ability of casters is to research new spells. They can produce new enchantments and whatnot that would fit a situation, be the final product of a good idea or simply fit their concept.

It is all good so far but then you sometimes look at certain officialy published content from WOTC and ask yourself: would this have been approved if simply presented by a player? I don't mean a player coming to the table wih a new book, I mean with a few lines of text of a printed sheet of paper.

Some of these would never have passed a reasonable DM, even not always because of brokeness but mostly because of actual concept or flavour.

My "favorite"? The orb spells.

Player: I know I am a conjurer but I had this idea: Summoning a mass of acid or fire or very cold air and throwing it at my enemies! It is not evocation if it comes from somewhere no?

DM: I can see the acid, you remember acid arrow? But fire? You summon Fire? How does that even work? And COLD AIR? Seriously? What, you want to summon sound next? Force?


What are yours?

[gallagher]

i honestly dont know whose idea it was to allow shivering touch, but MY GOD they should have rethought that one. it hits on Touch, does 2d6 dex, and can easily take down a dragon? seriously, shooting off two of these, along with a maximized or enlarged version of it, will render almost any creature immobile

[DragoonWraith]

Candle of Invocation.

Seriously.

[Mongoose87]

Candle of Invocation.

Seriously.

Goodnight, everybody!

[Lysander]

Mindrape (better dominate person with limitless duration? no way)
Wish (too vague)
Teleport (ruins the travel part of the adventure story)
Wall of force (nothing should be invincible)

[Private-Prinny]

Candle of Invocation.

*is unfamiliar with many magic items*

*looks up Candle of Invocation*

Oh... Oh god... Who would ever let something like that happen?

[ShadowsGrnEyes]

Shapechange:
Player-"I want to be able to turn into anything I want every round, heal every time, and get all of said things abilities when I do it. . . "
Dm-hahahahahaha no. -_-

Divine metamagic: (they errated it later but its still pretty bad)
Player- i want to be able to use my turn undead attempts to use metamagic instead. . .
Dm- I'm listening? what will your limitations be?
Player-Limitations?
Dm- hahahaha no -_-

[DragoonWraith]

I could see both of those things getting by a DM who didn't know better. Shapechange is a 9th level spell and without thorough knowledge of the kinds of things it would give you access to (which the DM wouldn't have because Shapechange wouldn't exist), a lot of DMs might let it go. Same thing with Gate, which is why I didn't say Gate.

As for Divine Metamagic, outside of Persist Spell and without ways of getting large numbers of Turn attempts, it's not that powerful. A smart DM might ban it just because metamagic-reducers are a tried and true way to game breakage, but if they didn't know that, DMM might not look that bad. Hell, it might not be that bad - you don't really get to use it that many times. Two free Quicken'd spells a day? Eh, worth a feat without a doubt, but it's not the game breaker than a Persist'd spell or two is.

[Muggins]

Wish
DM: So you're saying to can wish for anything in my game permanently?
Player: Yes.
DM: With no penalties?
Player: Yes.
DM: ..How about no.

Psylons
DM: You're asking if you can kill things ... with your mind?
Player: Why not?
DM: ..No.

Shifter
DM: You want the ability to shift into anything you can possibly imagine?
Player: Yes.
DM: Get out.

Sphere of Ultimate Destruction
Player: So, my guy made this spell and it obliterates everything around him.
DM: Serious?

Timestop
DM: A spell that stops time for everyone buy yourself?
Player: Yeah. Where's the problem?
DM: ...

Shout
DM: A spell that kills people if you shout loud enough?
Player: Mhmm.
DM: *Facepalm.*

[Mongoose87]

Wish
DM: So you're saying to can wish for anything in my game permanently?
Player: Yes.
DM: With no penalties?
Player: Yes.
DM: ..How about no.

Psylons
DM: You're asking if you can kill things ... with your mind?
Player: Why not?
DM: ..No.

Shifter
DM: You want the ability to shift into anything you can possibly imagine?
Player: Yes.
DM: Get out.

Sphere of Ultimate Destruction
Player: So, my guy made this spell and it obliterates everything around him.
DM: Serious?

Timestop
DM: A spell that stops time for everyone buy yourself?
Player: Yeah. Where's the problem?
DM: ...

Shout
DM: A spell that kills people if you shout loud enough?
Player: Mhmm.
DM: *Facepalm.*

Well, Wish used to be the DM's chance to find a creative way to mess with his players. Also, aren't Sylons robots?

[Pluto]

Psylons
DM: You're asking if you can kill things ... with your mind?
Player: Why not?
DM: ..No

Frak, Muggins. Who let those into the game?

[Hendel]

Wish
DM: So you're saying to can wish for anything in my game permanently?
Player: Yes.
DM: With no penalties?
Player: Yes.
DM: ..How about no.

I think there are enough restrictions on Wish as it is currently worded that I might give it the time of day as a DM. 5000 XP is a lot and it can't do just anything. Plus it is fun to grant the wishes by the letter of the law or the exact wording of the Wish.

Some spells and/or feats that I would find suspect are

Arcane Thesis (PHB 2) - IF you allow it as written where it deducts one point from ALL metamagics applied and not just from one of any metamagic feats applied. Coupled with Improved Metamagic at Epic levels and you have some nasty spells for very little to no level slot upcharge.

Close Quarters Fighting (CW) - You mean you want to take an attack of opportunity even if I have feats that prevent you from doing so and then add any damage done to your grapple check?? Sorry, no!

Wings of Flurry (RoD) - You want a spell that will damage all the foes that you target in a 30 ft radius from you, avoid your allies, and have no damage cap on the number of dice of damage that you can do (ie 20th level Sorcerer can do 20d6)?? Again, sorry, but no!

[Faleldir]

Psylons
DM: You're asking if you can kill things ... with your mind?
Player: Why not?
DM: ..No.

I assume you mean Psion, which is much weaker than a Wizard.

Shifter
DM: You want the ability to shift into anything you can possibly imagine?
Player: Yes.
DM: Get out.

What, the catgirl race from Eberron? They can't do that.

Shout
DM: A spell that kills people if you shout loud enough?
Player: Mhmm.
DM: *Facepalm.*

It's only 5d6 damage.

[CockroachTeaParty]

Power Word: Pain, comes to mind.

Also, the 3.0 version of Haste.

[Pluto]

Actually, most of these I understand. They either portray common fictional tropes (Wish, Shapechange, Polymorph, Teleport) or do something completely reasonable and conceptually compelling within the game (Sphere of Ultimate Destruction, Psions, Shout).

Easy Metamagic, Practical Metamagic, Orbs, Epic Spellcasting, Item Familiar don't make sense to me.

The Willing Deformity feats baffle me. Both because they seem more the role of grafts and because feats aren't usually related to actual events, feats or accomplishments of characters themselves. (Likewise, Lich-loved, Faerie Mysteries Initiate and Nymph's Kiss seem to be strangely plot-related compared to Skill Focus, Extend Spell, Improved Initiative or Power Attack.)


Thunderlance is probably the inversion of this. I understand why it would be allowed in a game, but I can't for the life of me understand why it was printed. Conceptually, a 20ft long lightsaber that dispels force effects doesn't really seem coherent.

[Tavar]

Umm...isn't Sphere of Ultimate destruction simply a disintegrate that can hit over multiple turns? Seems perfectly in line for a 9th level spell.

[Doc Roc]

The orb spells are actually an important part of the larger ecology of D&D. You can ban them, but I'm not sure I'd recommend it. They merely make blasters playable, instead of trash-fish.

My vote goes to sanctum spell, which made it through two editions as one of the worst feats ever printed.

[Coidzor]

Shifter
DM: You want the ability to shift into anything you can possibly imagine?
Player: Yes.
DM: Get out.

Shifters are incredibly gimped and can't even make it into a fully furry form, being more like... half-furries when shifted.

Now, them turning into half-furries, I can see that getting a DM to ban or facepalm depending upon the DM's patience.

[lsfreak]

The orb spells are actually an important part of the larger ecology of D&D. You can ban them, but I'm not sure I'd recommend it. They merely make blasters playable, instead of trash-fish.

I'd find them much more acceptable if they were in Evocation. Can you imagine a player trying to explain their way around an Instantaneous (and therefore permanent) Orb of Fire?

Spellcasters would get this for me, as presented in 3.5. "So you can do magic, no time spent researching new spells, almost no gold spent, no quests needed to get obscure spells, zero risks of spells going awry, never get mental or physical fatigue from overexerting yourself, and almost no way of anyone countering it before it goes off? Hahahaha."

[Hendel]

I'd find them much more acceptable if they were in Evocation. Can you imagine a player trying to explain their way around an Instantaneous (and therefore permanent) Orb of Fire?

Spellcasters would get this for me, as presented in 3.5. "So you can do magic, no time spent researching new spells, almost no gold spent, no quests needed to get obscure spells, zero risks of spells going awry, never get mental or physical fatigue from overexerting yourself, and almost no way of anyone countering it before it goes off? Hahahaha."

Plus that gets around the most insane aspect of the orbs spells. That is since they are instantaneous conjurations, once conjured, they are not magical and can then be tossed inside an Anti-Magic Field.

So an Orb of Force can take down both a Golem (no SR) and a mage inside an Anti-Magic Field, sign me up!!

[DragoonWraith]

...there are so many things in here that are just wrong. Things that are not that powerful, things that don't actually work that way... Jeez.

[Hida Reju]

Shock Trooper - ok I can tank AC (Which many believe is useless at high lvl anyway) to max my power attack out for super charging.

Divine metamagic - putting the G.O.D mode into cleric spell casting. Nightsticks made this even worse.

[Hendel]

...there are so many things in here that are just wrong. Things that are not that powerful, things that don't actually work that way... Jeez.

Anything in particular?

[Wonton]

i honestly dont know whose idea it was to allow shivering touch, but MY GOD they should have rethought that one. it hits on Touch, does 2d6 dex, and can easily take down a dragon? seriously, shooting off two of these, along with a maximized or enlarged version of it, will render almost any creature immobile

Look it up again. It does 3d6. I'm not making this **** up.

I totally agree with the Orbs. "I didn't evoke this orb of pure magical force, I, uh, conjured it... from Forceland." "Forceland?" "Yeah, you know... Forceland, in the Plane of Force."

Also, what's a Candle of Invoc--- OH MY GOD THE HORROR! By the given wording, you could even STACK them!

[Hobs]

Plus that gets around the most insane aspect of the orbs spells. That is since they are instantaneous conjurations, once conjured, they are not magical and can then be tossed inside an Anti-Magic Field.

So an Orb of Force can take down both a Golem (no SR) and a mage inside an Anti-Magic Field, sign me up!!

yeah, that was always the most ridiculous part of the orbs for me.

[DragoonWraith]

Anything in particular?

Several things, but I don't care for the argument, so I'm not going to point them out. Most of the things I see as out-right wrong have been already commented on, though.

[Caphi]

Also, what's a Candle of Invoc--- OH MY GOD THE HORROR! By the given wording, you could even STACK them!

Would you believe that's not the insane part?

This thread was pretty much over at candle of invocation.

[AslanCross]

Psylons
DM: You're asking if you can kill things ... with your mind?
Player: Why not?
DM: ..No.

If you mean Psions, the Wizard can do that too, except much better. Psions lack the versatility and sheer brokenness that Wizards have.

Shifter
DM: You want the ability to shift into anything you can possibly imagine?
Player: Yes.
DM: Get out.

I think you mean shapechange. I don't think you mean shifters:

Apart from having women who look like Mel Gibson...

...there's pretty much no real reason to ban them for balance reasons.

Sphere of Ultimate Destruction
Player: So, my guy made this spell and it obliterates everything around him.
DM: Serious?

At that point, a lot of stuff can make the Fort saves necessary. Disintegrate is hard enough to pull off on its own.

[Tavar]

The Taint mage, or whatever that PrC that makes your casting stat based off Taint surly counts.

[Thiyr]

To be honest, Assay SR would be one IMO. I cast a spell that allows my spells to affect things that are resistant to spells better. I use magic to defeat something good against magic. The orbs, on the other hand, make sense overall for me. orb of force less so, but I'd clock the difference as "I create a real fire by using magical energy to summon it, and then physically moving it elsewhere" versus "I use magic to make a nigh-identical fascimilie of fire out of magical energy". The difference is a fine point when it comes to what the spells do (fake or not, that fire hurts), but when it comes to things resisting the magical energy, there's no more of it left in the real stuff, while the fake stuff needs the energy to keep its form.

as for 9th level spells, I just lump those together into the "They're 9th level spells. What is this 'needing approval' bit, the game's already broken in half, being short bits away from epic and all".

Power word: pain, though, definitely fits. "a first level spell that does more damage the less HP the target has, has no save, and will kill things by itself even a few levels after you get it, given time?" Granted, all it does is give the target a maximum fight duration before getting back to a good healing source, but still, bit much.