13th Level Goliath Dungeon Thrower Optimization

[Rasman]

I've worked out some of the kinks and am slowly figuring out what I HAVE to have to make this Pathfinder build work. This will start 13th level so my progression so far is, since I don't know if I can buyoff the LA.
0/ Goliath Bought Off/Asked DM and he said it was ok
1/Fighter 1 Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot
2/Fighter 2 Dungeon Crasher 4d6+Strx2,
3/Fighter 3 Armor Training, Power Attack
4/Fighter 4 Improved Bull Rush
5/Fighter 5 Weapon Focus (Javelin)
6/Fighter 6 Weapon Training Thrown, Dungeon Crasher 8d6+Strx3
7/Warblade 1 Battle Clarity, Weapon Aptitude, Knockback
8/Bloodstorm Blade 1 Returning Attack, Throw Anything
9/ Bloodstorm Blade 2 Martial Throw, Thunderous Throw, Greater Bull Rush
10/Bloodstorm Blade 3 Weapon Specialization (Javelin)
11/Bloodstorm Blade 4 Lightning Ricochet, Far Shot
12/Master Thrower 1? Quick Draw, Thrown Weapon Trick (Dead-eye Shot?)
13/Master Thrower 2? Range Weapon Mastery (Piercing)


Stats are

Con: 18 (16 +2 Racial)
Str: 20 (16 + 4 Racial)
Dex: 11 (13 - 2 Racial)
Wis: 14
Int: 16
Cha: 14
+3 Ability Score Level Advancements, probably +2 Str, +1 Dex.

I'm not too sure about what the feats after 9th level are going to be, something to help in lines with the theme probably and I'm really not sure if I should take the 13th level as Master Thrower yet or if I should add another level of BsB for Blood Wind Ricochet or another level of Warblade in.

Any suggestions/advice for Build (including up to level 20), Equipment (especially weapons) or Magic Items would be appreciated.

NOTE: Special Thanks to PairO'Dice Lost, Keld Denar and Draz74 for helping work out my stupid on this.

[Keld Denar]

You have PA in your build twice. Also, feats. You get one per 3 HD, not ECL. Thus, you don't get a feat at your "level" 1, you gain it at level 2. And your next would be at ECL 4, and the next would be ECL7, not including fighter bonus feats. Also, there is no Weapon Focus: Thrown, unless this is a pathfinder thing. For a weapon, I highly suggest something that actually has a range incriment, like a Javelin or an Orcish Shotput, just so you aren't penalized too hard and you can PA for MOAR DAMAGE!

As far as what to do when you finish BSB, well, thats really up to you. MT is decent, since you'll pretty much already qualify and it is full BAB. Pretty much, as long as you stay something full BAB so you can maintain your PA effectiveness, you should be good.

[Faleldir]

Don't forget Pushback.

[Rasman]

You have PA in your build twice. Also, feats. You get one per 3 HD, not ECL. Thus, you don't get a feat at your "level" 1, you gain it at level 2. And your next would be at ECL 4, and the next would be ECL7, not including fighter bonus feats. Also, there is no Weapon Focus: Thrown, unless this is a pathfinder thing. For a weapon, I highly suggest something that actually has a range incriment, like a Javelin or an Orcish Shotput, just so you aren't penalized too hard and you can PA for MOAR DAMAGE!

As far as what to do when you finish BSB, well, thats really up to you. MT is decent, since you'll pretty much already qualify and it is full BAB. Pretty much, as long as you stay something full BAB so you can maintain your PA effectiveness, you should be good.

I thought that was the case about feats, but i wasn't sure so I just did it like I knew.

And the Weapon Focus thing is just the fact that I haven't chosen what thrown weapon it's going to be yet. What book is the Orcish Shotput in?

[Keld Denar]

Arms and Equipment Guide, page 9. Its basically a bludgeoning Greatsword with a range incriment, but its exotic.

[Rasman]

You have PA in your build twice. Also, feats. You get one per 3 HD, not ECL. Thus, you don't get a feat at your "level" 1, you gain it at level 2. And your next would be at ECL 4, and the next would be ECL7, not including fighter bonus feats. Also, there is no Weapon Focus: Thrown, unless this is a pathfinder thing. For a weapon, I highly suggest something that actually has a range incriment, like a Javelin or an Orcish Shotput, just so you aren't penalized too hard and you can PA for MOAR DAMAGE!

As far as what to do when you finish BSB, well, thats really up to you. MT is decent, since you'll pretty much already qualify and it is full BAB. Pretty much, as long as you stay something full BAB so you can maintain your PA effectiveness, you should be good.

Looking at the Shotput, only has a Range of 10', BUT the damage is good and so is the crit, if they were Impacting it would be even better. But I will probably hold them as Reserve weapons since I'll be throwing my main weapons with BsB.

Also updated it as though it were bought off, so that should make more sense if I got it all right.

Don't forget Pushback.

I'm not sure you can use Pushback with a BsB since you can't move into their space. Would make for some INTENSE movement though.

[Faleldir]

I'm not sure you can use Pushback with a BsB since you can't move into their space.

Of course you can, it doesn't specify a distance.

[Critical]

I'm doing a similar build with this in one of the games here, though, with the Half-Minotaur. Anyway, Three Mountains Style might be fun to add to the mix. And don't forget Far Shot if you want to have some decent range.

[Rasman]

Of course you can, it doesn't specify a distance.

I'll look into it, although I'm not really sure I want to basically charge them if I'm throwing my weapon at them. Will have to ask my DM about how he'd let it work.

I'm doing a similar build with this in one of the games here, though, with the Half-Minotaur. Anyway, Three Mountains Style might be fun to add to the mix. And don't forget Far Shot if you want to have some decent range.

I looked at Half-Minotaur, but I didn't want to super cheese it with the gore attack and bonuses to bull rush, I'm trying to be sneaky cheese. I'll take a look at Three Mountains Style, I know ToB pretty well, but I'm kinda sleep deprived, so I don't remember it off the top of my head.

[jiriku]

Given the short range of the orcish shotput, you'll probably get more mileage out of Far Shot than Weapon Focus (orcish shotput). Those range increments stack on penalties pretty quickly, Far Shot will halve them, and reducing a penalty is just as good as acquiring a bonus.

[Rasman]

Given the short range of the orcish shotput, you'll probably get more mileage out of Far Shot than Weapon Focus (orcish shotput). Those range increments stack on penalties pretty quickly, Far Shot will halve them, and reducing a penalty is just as good as acquiring a bonus.

Weapon Focus is a requirement for Master Thrower, else I wouldn't even have it, although I'm considering dropping it all together, except for the awesomeness that is Dead-Eye Aim.

Farshot is probably going to make it in, how does that affect me throwing my regular weapons though?

[Keld Denar]

It works the same as any other weapon. It doubles your range incriment. The Throw Anything ability of BSB gives all weapons without a range incriment a range of 10. With Far Shot, they would all have a range incriment of 20.

My bad on the Shotput though. I thought it had a longer range than that. Its not worth the feat on EWP then, cool as it would be. Just use a regular Greatsword for pretty much the same stats.

[Rasman]

It works the same as any other weapon. It doubles your range incriment. The Throw Anything ability of BSB gives all weapons without a range incriment a range of 10. With Far Shot, they would all have a range incriment of 20.

My bad on the Shotput though. I thought it had a longer range than that. Its not worth the feat on EWP then, cool as it would be. Just use a regular Greatsword for pretty much the same stats.

eh, not a biggie, Javelin will work just fine, seems kinda fitting too anyway

Ranged Weapon Mastery would increase the range of them by +20', but does that stack with Farshot?

[Keld Denar]

D&D doesn't really give us a way to deal with additions within multiplications, so my guess would be to default to the rule suggestion of "apply things in the order that is most beneficial to the affected creature". You are the affected creature, so you'd add RWM to Javelins (making them 70' range inc), then double (for 140' range inc), as that would be the most advantageous.

I'm going from memory that Javelins are 50' range incriment?

[Rasman]

D&D doesn't really give us a way to deal with additions within multiplications, so my guess would be to default to the rule suggestion of "apply things in the order that is most beneficial to the affected creature". You are the affected creature, so you'd add RWM to Javelins (making them 70' range inc), then double (for 140' range inc), as that would be the most advantageous.

I'm going from memory that Javelins are 50' range incriment?

30', so it would go up to 50' and then double to 100', which is still stupid awesome for a thrown weapon.

This guy might turn into something nasty if I can get some decent rolls on my random equipment.

[Keld Denar]

Its really silly when you think that thrown weapons have a max range of 5 range incriments, which means that your 100' throw is just at the far end of 1, and if you take a -8 to hit, you can throw all the way out to 500'! Thats 1-2/3 american football fields, and almost as long as a normal shortbow can fire at max range unoptimally. And thats just your arm...

[Rasman]

Its really silly when you think that thrown weapons have a max range of 5 range incriments, which means that your 100' throw is just at the far end of 1, and if you take a -8 to hit, you can throw all the way out to 500'! Thats 1-2/3 american football fields, and almost as long as a normal shortbow can fire at max range unoptimally. And thats just your arm...

Now imagine that with Pushback and Ranged Pin, this could be pretty sick...until I fight a spell caster that faceplants me.

and...it just occured to me...they can be Large Javelins...oh god...oh...god...

[Wagadodo]

Just a reminder in Pathfinder, farshot only reduces your penalties down by half, it no longer doubles your range. So each range increment it would -1 instead of the -2.

http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/feats.html#far-shot

[Rasman]

Just a reminder in Pathfinder, farshot only reduces your penalties down by half, it no longer doubles your range. So each range increment it would -1 instead of the -2.

http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/feats.html#far-shot

oh...right...I knew that, but it basically does the same thing, just worded a little differently and not QUITE as powerful, but still serves its purpose

[Wagadodo]

Could always get vital strike. Double your weapon damage for a standard attack. If you have a feat after you get +6 BAB that you are not sure about. A good feat if you have to move and attack.

[Rasman]

Could always get vital strike. Double your weapon damage for a standard attack. If you have a feat after you get +6 BAB that you are not sure about. A good feat if you have to move and attack.

I'm not really a big fan of Vital Strike, you only really use it if you can only get one attack in and I'll be throwing multiple javelins a round. I think it's situational at best so i'd rather have a feat that gets more use