(3.5/PF) Archer Paladin Help

[FantomFang]

Hey guys, I'm looking at playing an archer paladin in my friends' next game, which has him happy because I'm not playing a caster for once

Anyways, I plan on using halfling and choosing a mount when it rolls around, and then using my archery from my pony and eventual flying mount of some sort, smiting when necessary to turn my archery from effective to deadly. Any good medium-size flying mounts out there?

How would you all recommend I build my char? 20/25 PF Point Buy (not sure).
My thoughts were Cha/Dex -> Con -> Str -> Int -> Wis in relevance.

Feats I'm thinking about, in no particular order yet, are:
Point Blank Shot, Rapid Shot, Manyshot, Precise Shot, Mounted Combat, Mounted Archery, Deadly Aim (yay ranged power atk)...anything I'm missing? When should I take each feat? Is it worth dipping fighter at certain points to get these feats faster? For those 3.5ers reading this, remember PF characters get feats every odd level.

My DM is willing to let me use Battle Blessing to improve my spellcasting, anything I need to know about that except that it makes paladin spellcasting swift? When would it be worthwhile to take it?

Skip Imp. Precise Shot b/c of Seeking enchantment, or is it worth going for because of the paladin spells that overwrite enchantments?

Keep this to stuff on the PFSRD if possible, core or otherwise, unless there's something in 3.5 that would be simple and of great help to this.

Feel free to suggest alternatives too if you'd like, although I'd much rather stay as a paladin if possible.

[Ravens_cry]

Unless you are a halfling with a medium mount, get the free magic item, as the special mount isn't as necessary for an archer, and is awfully fragile I am told.
You usually can get a full attack with a bow, and that on smite is going to be brutal.
When you can afford them, boots of spider climb can add some wonderful manoeuvrability,as can potions or items of fly.

[Gnaeus]

Feel free to suggest alternatives too if you'd like, although I'd much rather stay as a paladin if possible.

Note that PF greatly increased the chops of the core gish PRCs. Arcane Archer and Dragon Disciple are both much stronger than 3.5. Builds like Paladin 4/Sorcerer 1/Dragon Disciple or Arcane Archer (or both!) can be very strong in PF. Good Cha synergy, tough, able to use most wands and scrolls, actual class features throughout your build.

Also, it is easy, with a sorcerer's limited spell list, to make those gish builds function in armor. Pick the right spells and you are indistinguishable from a normal paladin, until you decide to cast true strike or blindness (no somatic components=no ASF) to break a tough enemy.

[Kaiyanwang]

Note that PF greatly increased the chops of the core gish PRCs. Arcane Archer and Dragon Disciple are both much stronger than 3.5. Builds like Paladin 4/Sorcerer 1/Dragon Disciple or Arcane Archer (or both!) can be very strong in PF. Good Cha synergy, tough, able to use most wands and scrolls, actual class features throughout your build.

If the campaign is evil-heavy, full paladin would be an occasional mobile artillery unit.

(Even if I see that your suggestion leads to a more versatile character)

[Gnaeus]

If the campaign is evil-heavy, full paladin would be an occasional mobile artillery unit.

(Even if I see that your suggestion leads to a more versatile character)

I fail to see how Paladin 4/Sorcerer 1/Arcane Archer 10/Dragon Disciple or Paladin 5 does not qualify as a mobile artillery unit.

[Kaiyanwang]

I fail to see how Paladin 4/Sorcerer 1/Arcane Archer 10/Dragon Disciple or Paladin 5 does not qualify as a mobile artillery unit.

I was referring to the increased damage vs specific "EEVIIIL" enemies like undeads, dragons and fiends.

Double level of damage in a full attack, no DR or energy resistances is dire.

Then, I remembered smite evil nerf. Considier me hidden in a corner

[FantomFang]

Note that PF greatly increased the chops of the core gish PRCs. Arcane Archer and Dragon Disciple are both much stronger than 3.5. Builds like Paladin 4/Sorcerer 1/Dragon Disciple or Arcane Archer (or both!) can be very strong in PF. Good Cha synergy, tough, able to use most wands and scrolls, actual class features throughout your build.

Also, it is easy, with a sorcerer's limited spell list, to make those gish builds function in armor. Pick the right spells and you are indistinguishable from a normal paladin, until you decide to cast true strike or blindness (no somatic components=no ASF) to break a tough enemy.

Very true, I just wish that Arcane Archer's class features were more remarkable. The enchant arrow features are much better than before, but its other features are still kinda lame, because they require standard action shots. And the others still stink. And dragon disciple, while nice, just doesn't provide the oomph to an archer that is does to a meleer.

Didn't think about the spell with no somatic components though, need to look into those.

Are there any non-pathfinder prestige classes that I maybe should look into?

@Kaiyanwang

Yeah, the smite evil nerf is kind of annoying, as it wasn't like that when I played the PF paladin originally. We'll probably play it the old way anyways, as it's not like it's really all that bad.

[Gnaeus]

Anyway, you can still smite evil, just not so often, and every single arrow you fire becomes elemental burst (fire, cold or shock, your choice) and either Axiomatic or Holy.

And dragon disciple, while nice, just doesn't provide the oomph to an archer that is does to a meleer.

It depends. Assuming that you have a bow rated for your strength, at some levels I would rather have the extra base damage than the elemental damage from Arcane Archer. And some of the free feats (Improved Initiative, Blind Fight) are just as good for either melee or ranged. My friend and I are making Gish archers for an 11th level game, and I think Dragon Disciple is almost as good as Arcane Archer for it. Between the free Blind Fight and the free Blindsense, you could stand in a patch of fog or darkness (that you can create yourself) and shoot arrows at enemies who can't target you back.

[Ravens_cry]

I was referring to the increased damage vs specific "EEVIIIL" enemies like undeads, dragons and fiends.

Double level of damage in a full attack, no DR or energy resistances is dire.

Then, I remembered smite evil nerf. Condsier me hidden in a corner

The way I read the eratta, you get double level on the first attack on evil dragons etc each round that hits,and paladin level on the rest.
It is still way better then the way they used to be.
Quick question. Is smite damage multiplied on a critical? It is in my group because it is 'static damage", like the bonus from strength, but is this so?

[Snake-Aes]

The way I read the eratta, you get double level on the first attack on evil dragons etc each round that hits,and paladin level on the rest.
It is still way better then the way they used to be.
Quick question. Is smite damage multiplied on a critical? It is in my group because it is 'static damage", like the bonus from strength, but is this so?

It is multiplied, just like str and enhancement bonuses. Usually you only remove from crits stuff that is specifically mentioned as such, like extra arrows in a manyshot.

[FantomFang]

The way I read the eratta, you get double level on the first attack on evil dragons etc each round that hits,and paladin level on the rest.
It is still way better then the way they used to be.
Quick question. Is smite damage multiplied on a critical? It is in my group because it is 'static damage", like the bonus from strength, but is this so?

Why not? Nothing in the description states otherwise, not like sneak attack, or an elemental weapon. That's the way I've played too.

[Kaiyanwang]

The way I read the eratta, you get double level on the first attack on evil dragons etc each round that hits,and paladin level on the rest.

Originally posted by Pathfinder RPG Errata

If the target of smite evil is an outsider with the evil subtype, an evil-aligned dragon, or an undead creature, the bonus to damage on the first successful attack increases to 2 points of damage per level the paladin possesses.

It said the first attack, period. Well, the paladin is still very dangerous to evildoers, and smite is not the only trick in his sleeves, so..

Actually, even if after errata is maybe more balanced for casual games, I liked it more before. Not because "otherwise paladin suxx" but because it was like I see it.

If an evildoer sees a paladin, he must poo in his pants.

[Ravens_cry]

It said the first attack, period. Well, the paladin is still very dangerous to evildoers, and smite is not the only trick in his sleeves, so..

Actually, even if after errata is maybe more balanced for casual games, I liked it more before. Not because "otherwise paladin suxx" but because it was like I see it.

If an evildoer sees a paladin, he must poo in his pants.

Yes, INCREASES. They qualify for smite both as evil creatures and as creatures of the Evil subtype.
The normal smite, bonus damage 1 per level, is unchanged, still going for every hit.
And yes, Paladins should make Evil feel what a paladin does not.
Fear.

[FantomFang]

It said the first attack, period. Well, the paladin is still very dangerous to evildoers, and smite is not the only trick in his sleeves, so..

Actually, even if after errata is maybe more balanced for casual games, I liked it more before. Not because "otherwise paladin suxx" but because it was like I see it.

If an evildoer sees a paladin, he must poo in his pants.

Good news for archer paladins at least is that the text of the feat Manyshot seems to suggest that the smite evil 2xDamage bonus should apply to both of the first arrows that you get in a full attack, because the first "shot" is two arrows, but only one attack. It even says you favored enemy 2x, so why not double smite 2x?

[Keld Denar]

You have Turn Undead, but your ability to actually turn will probably suck. Therefore, you should find something else to do with those TU attempts. Divine Might (CWar, +Cha to dmg) is a pretty clear winner, although it requires PA as a prereq. Nothing in the feat specifies that it doesn't work with ranged attacks. Also, Divine Might is not precision damage, so it applies to every arrow in a volley (like Multishot).

Otherwise, one of the Devotion feats might be worthwhile. Travel gives you swift action movement which allows you to reposition before full attacking. That kinda negates the need for Multishot. Law Devotion would also be good if you were using Dead Eye, since you can convert the +attack bonus into +dmg. Animal would probably be decent, even if its not thematic. Bonuses to Str are always appreciated if you have a bow that automatically adjusts to your pull (like a Bow of the Wintermoon), and the on-demand mobility choices are pretty sweet too.

[FantomFang]

You have Turn Undead, but your ability to actually turn will probably suck. Therefore, you should find something else to do with those TU attempts. Divine Might (CWar, +Cha to dmg) is a pretty clear winner, although it requires PA as a prereq. Nothing in the feat specifies that it doesn't work with ranged attacks. Also, Divine Might is not precision damage, so it applies to every arrow in a volley (like Multishot).

Otherwise, one of the Devotion feats might be worthwhile. Travel gives you swift action movement which allows you to reposition before full attacking. That kinda negates the need for Multishot. Law Devotion would also be good if you were using Dead Eye, since you can convert the +attack bonus into +dmg. Animal would probably be decent, even if its not thematic. Bonuses to Str are always appreciated if you have a bow that automatically adjusts to your pull (like a Bow of the Wintermoon), and the on-demand mobility choices are pretty sweet too.

I'll consider some of those.
Btw, manyshot is different now, it only works on full attacks and makes the first "attack" be two shots instead of one, applying all damage 2x but the critical damage and any precision-based dmg.

So manyshot loves Travel Devotion

Turn Undead also works off of Lay on Hands now, at least for the paladin. Or Channel Energy, as they call it. They both share the same pool, but the way I expect to build the guy I'll have so many Lay on Hands that I won't know what to do with them.

Channel Energy/Lay on Hands is 1/2 Paladin Lvl + Cha mod times per day, so that'll be quite a few even with a low lvl paladin, like the arcane archer version suggested.

[Runeclaw]

Any good medium-size flying mounts out there?

Roc, from the Bestiary, is what you are looking for.

My DM is willing to let me use Battle Blessing to improve my spellcasting, anything I need to know about that except that it makes paladin spellcasting swift? When would it be worthwhile to take it?

As soon as you can cast spells

You have Turn Undead

In Pathfinder, he instead gets Channel Positive Energy, which can be used for healing living creatures or damaging undead. He'd need to take a feat if he wanted to actually Turn Undead.

[Snake-Aes]

Well, strictly speaking, so do clerics. Turn undead is not ingrained in either class. Therefore I believe it's reasonable to make feats that replace Turn Undead's utilities to use a charge of Channeling instead. It'd still eat a double LoH..but it works.