Help! EL Six levels above us (3.5)

[Illven]

Our Dm has as against a six war trolls from MM 3 and a Treant, The war trolls are surrounded by a stone wall as the spell.

The party

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Gnome sorcerer/combat medic 6/5 (me)
Dragonwhougt kobold sorcerer 11
Human Rogue 11
Gnome druid 11 Dire bear compainon, and Dire bat wild cohort
Gnome druid 11 (Character in progress)
Bard 11 (Inspire courage 10)
Human cleric (Heal bot)
Human wizard/combat medic 6/5

Variants

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Sorcerers have spells known equal to a Favoured soul of their level
Sorcerers that get bonus spells known from classes and feats are immediately added
Fountains of blood a 2nd level sor/wiz homebrew spell, 20 ft radius 1d6 acid/2 levels, and doesn't harm the caster

Additional info

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My spells known

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Cantrips: Acid Splash, Prestidigitation, Detect magic, Ray of frost, Light, Sonic snap, Electric jolt, Resistance, Read magic
1st level spells: Magic Missile, Charm person, Shield, Sonic blast, Ray of clumsiness, Grease, Cure light wounds, Remove fear
2nd level spells: Bear endurance, Fountains of blood, Ray of stupidity, Ray of sickness, Mirror image, Cure moderate wounds, Lesser restoration
3rd level spells: Haste, Suggestion, Slow, Alter fortune, Bands of steel, Cure serious wounds, Remove disease
4th level spells Evard's black tentacles, Resistance greater, Greater invisibility, Celerity, Cure critical wound, Restoration
5th level spells Baleful polymorph, Feeble mind, Blink greater, Cure light wounds mass, Raise dead

More to be added

Level ups from 10 are in progress, any way to prepare for them

[Jorda75]

The trolls are surrounded by a stone wall? As in trapped inside it. BP the treant into a kitty cat, then use all those casters to rain hell down on the trolls inside the wall with area spells until there's nothing left but cooked troll and a dead cat. If you need to summon up a fire elemental to stomp all the little bits of troll that might try and regen. :P

[Illven]

War troll regentration is not bypassed by fire

[Keld Denar]

War trolls and treants? Bring fire. Does your bard have Dragonfire Inspiration? Cause that would come close to trivializing the encounter.

Other than that, divide and conquer. Use spells like Solid Fog (2-3 rounds to escape from that one). Make sure you only fight one troll at a time. Med up between trolls, refreshing crowd control as required.

[Illven]

Okay besides the fire part, that is all I guess we can do. any other suggestions

No dragonfire inspiration

[Jorda75]

I still don't see the problem if the trolls are, in fact trapped in a stone wall, they're gonna die in there one way or the other, just keeping dropping spells on them until they go down then freeze them or burn them with acid or whatever the heck you need to do to put them down for good. A fight against a horde or enemies that can't attack me, can't see me and can't escape doesn't sound that hard to me, what am I missing here?

[Illven]

The War trolls can break though the wall though

[Lord Vukodlak]

Cast a slow spell and run,

Use suggestion on one of the wartrolls so he makes just a single strike against an ally "your friend is planning to betray you strike him first before he attacks"

The great thing about evil is they expect betrayal. So betrayal is a much more reasonable suggestion. And just one strike could be enough to set two trolls against one another long after the suggestion act has been completed.

A wall of stone[the spell] is only a few inches thick, just one of those trolls will rip it down in single round.

Grease and black tentacles would work better to try and keep some of them out of combat.

[Flickerdart]

War Trolls should have low Will saves, right? Rain Confusion down like it's going out of style.

[tyckspoon]

Suggest running away or bypassing if you must get by their area. You should easily have the magical or physical resources required to find out what's on the other side, and then you can teleport/dimension door/ have the Druids summon elementals to burrow you around/whatever over there. Alternately, this seems like one of the relatively few situations where just cutting loose with blasting magic is a pretty good idea. If your Sorcerers still have an open spell selection, both of you should pick up Wings of Flurry (Spell Compendium, Friend-or-Foe sensitive area Force damage. 's an excellent all-purpose damage spell.) It doesn't really matter whether you beat regeneration or not- you can still beat them unconscious with non-lethal damage, and once you've done that you can execute them with Acid Splash or something.

If you have enough time to prepare consider having your Druids make Fire Seeds bombs. They should be able to do 2 6th level spells, which means you can get up to 32 flaming holly berries. Spread 'em out into small pouches with a rock or a slingstone or something in the bottom so you can throw them, since the spell says a berry alone can't be thrown far enough. Hand 'em to the rest of the party, have the Druids ready action to say the command word when the bags are all pitched. Each berry bursts for 1d8+caster level fire in a 5 foot radius, reflex half, so that's 32d8+352 fire damage that you can split up into the quantity you desire and have placed exactly where you want it. If you don't manage to wipe out your enemy completely with that, it should at least be an easy clean up for some Wings of Flurry/Fireballs/Acidballs/other mass assault magic.

(n.b: Don't do that too often. It's absurdly potent and will probably annoy your DM. Edit: And you probably don't have time to do it anyway.)

Ideally you want to take out or at least disable the entire group at once, since if even one of those things gets its claws/sword on you somebody in your group is going to die. For a single-target takedown, well, they only have Int 8. Spam the crap out of Ray of Stupidity.

[Illven]

War Trolls should have low Will saves, right? Rain Confusion down like it's going out of style.

For whatever reason War trolls have a good will save progression

If your Sorcerers still have an open spell selection, both of you should pick up Wings of Flurry (Spell Compendium, Friend-or-Foe sensitive area Force damage. 's an excellent all-purpose damage spell.) It doesn't really matter whether you beat regeneration or not- you can still beat them unconscious with non-lethal damage, and once you've done that you can execute them with Acid Splash or something.

The other one does have wings of flurry, I can't change spells, and I don't gain any new ones this level. and Acid splash coup de grac is a DC 16 max, which is not a great chance of failure

Cast a slow spell and run,

Use suggestion on one of the wartrolls so he makes just a single strike against an ally "your friend is planning to betray you strike him first before he attacks"

The great thing about evil is they expect betrayal. So betrayal is a much more reasonable suggestion. And just one strike could be enough to set two trolls against one another long after the suggestion act has been completed.

A wall of stone[the spell] is only a few inches thick, just one of those trolls will rip it down in single round.

Grease and black tentacles would work better to try and keep some of them out of combat.

Slow has a will save, Grease will be done, and black tentacles can't beat their grapple mod

[tyckspoon]

The other one does have wings of flurry, I can't change spells, and I don't gain any new ones this level. and Acid splash coup de grac is a DC 16 max, which is not a great chance of failure

The rules are admittedly a little bit vague about it, but I've always read it as intending to mean that once you knock them out with nonlethal damage you can kill them with any source of regeneration-beating damage, bypassing the normal coup-de-grace mechanism entirely. *shrug* Ask yer DM.

[Illven]

The rules are admittedly a little bit vague about it, but I've always read it as intending to mean that once you knock them out with nonlethal damage you can kill them with any source of regeneration-beating damage, bypassing the normal coup-de-grace mechanism entirely. *shrug* Ask yer DM.

Just did, he said no they get fort saves

[tyckspoon]

Oh, well. Still, knock 'em down with magic and then spam that Fountains of Blood spell, then. You'll do enough real acid damage sooner or later.

Maybe try the Wall of Bears tactic? Get the Dire Bear companion to stand in front, have one of the druids Summon Nature's Ally for Polar Bears (or a second Dire Bear) to fill in space, and then the first Druid Animal Growths them. Huge Dire Bears make a pretty nice blockade, and are capable of pretty decent damage on their own as well.

[Illven]

Yeah so far that seems the best idea after a grease spell

[JeminiZero]

2nd level spells: Bear endurance, Fountains of blood, Ray of stupidity, Ray of sickness, Mirror image, Cure moderate wounds, Lesser restoration

If the War Trolls have no restoration available, a couple of Rays of Stupidities (average 3) should put one into a Coma, thereby bypassing the regeneration problem entirely. You can then proceed to drown them, by dunking their head in a large bucket of water after the fight. R.O.Stupidity is unfortunately mind affecting so it won't affect the treant.

War Trolls also have the nasty dazing blow ability, so as suggested above, you will more than likely want to tank them with lots of high fort summons.

Edit: Might help to know what metamagic you and your pals have as well.

[Illven]

Okay will try the ray of stupidity, not really worried about the treant, and summon bears and stuff okay

[Beorn080]

Can they beat Greater Invisibilty? Drop it on the the druids Growthed Dire Bear.

Also, Black Tentacles is still worthwhile. For you I think its a +19 to grapple, I can't imagine war trolls being that much higher, plus half speed and continued checks. Drop it so the edge is up against the square the invisible giant dire bear is standing in. Follow it up with a grease for good measure.

[Superglucose]

Black Tentacles is a fairly high grapple mod for that level. Sure it won't stop a dedicated grappler, but CL + 8 is pretty solid. In any case, here's what I suggest: Slow, then Ray of Stupidity them to death. Well, coma, but still. Have the Druids stay in front and keeping the buggers in front of you.

Also kill it with fire. Produce Flame will work well here, provided your GM is sane and lets you use it in conjunction with a normal attack.

EDIT This encounter sounds like fun. I'd love to bring a character into this one.

[Illven]

We need to kill it with acid, fire does not bypass a war troll's regenration

[tyckspoon]

Also, Black Tentacles is still worthwhile. For you I think its a +19 to grapple, I can't imagine war trolls being that much higher, plus half speed and continued checks. Drop it so the edge is up against the square the invisible giant dire bear is standing in. Follow it up with a grease for good measure.

+26 (they're Large full BAB creatures with 31 Strength. War Trolls are *nasty* fighters. And they all come with +10 Strength mod composite bows as standard too, so even ranged kiting isn't as safe as it usually is.) Still worth casting for control, especially as part of a stacked difficult terrain/Grease/fog/whatever zone, but don't expect it to win the grapples.

[Kaiyanwang]

For whatever reason War trolls have a good will save progression

Monstrous humanoids. "magic troll breed yadda yadda" not true trolls. For the same reason, they regenerate fire damage.

As Tyckspoon said, War trolls are *dire*.

They are sort of an "anti-metagamer" modified monster.

[Person_Man]

War Trolls: 140ish hit points, 4ish attacks per round, Dazing Blow, decent Saves across the board, Regeneration (bypassed by Acid, not Fire), SR, and DR.

Very brutal enemies.

Run. Run like you never have before.

If that's not an option, my suggestion is that EVERYONE should stay as far away from them as possible. Their Dazing Blow (Save or Daze for 1 round) is utterly brutal as it applies to every attack. Druids should spam Summon Nature's Ally every round. Bard should Inspire, then switch to a ranged weapon. You should cast Greater Invisbility on the Rogue and then switch to Grease every round (which ignores Spell Resistance). Everyone else should stick to ranged attacks, saving any acid they have for final attacks.

Your enemies lack any serious mobility or ranged options, so eventually you should be able to overwhelm them.

[Kaiyanwang]

Your enemies lack any serious mobility or ranged options, so eventually you should be able to overwhelm them.

You are missing the +10 str bonus bow (as said above).

[Sc00by]

Target them one at a time, you want to inconvience all of them, but only actually damage 1. If you all focus on 1 target each round with luck you'll only need a couple of raise deads at the end of the encounter... ;)

If you all start hitting different Trolls you could end up with a party wipe. You can't expect to crowd control all 6 all the time (though you can have a pretty good try) so any 'free' ones have to be mopped up ASAP.

Get the (healbot?) cleric to clericzilla up (divine might, Righteous might, etc) and be a tank, with 2 Druids (both with Wild Shape I'd guess?) and LOTS of Summon Natures ally you have a LOT of prospective tanks to keep the trolls busy and off your squishes who should be free to deal some serious damage.

But I'll finish as I started you HAVE to drop them 1 at a time. Don't get tricked into taking on multiple targets as a group.

/2p

[Beorn080]

+26 (they're Large full BAB creatures with 31 Strength. War Trolls are *nasty* fighters. And they all come with +10 Strength mod composite bows as standard too, so even ranged kiting isn't as safe as it usually is.) Still worth casting for control, especially as part of a stacked difficult terrain/Grease/fog/whatever zone, but don't expect it to win the grapples.

So there is a 7 point difference. That's not too bad. Not great, but at least one of the trolls should fail it.

[Illven]

So a lot of danger, fun

[Illuminate_Void]

I dont know how your having problems considering you have FOUR spellcasters in your party. Hell the druid alone could decimate them.

Have the wizard cast Greater Invisibility on the Druid.

Druid wildshapes into small flying animal. Assuming you have natural spell its a no brainer.

The war trolls are surrounded by a stone wall as the spell.

Have the other druid cast the same spell and trap the war trolls. Sure they can try and break through but its going to take a little bit of time.

Then use Transmute Rock to Mud. On all their squares. Now they sink. No SR, and not much of a save.

2nd Druid, casts Transmute Mud to Rock. Now you're little enemies are trapped. Now the three divine spellcasters can welt them with Flame Strikes or other nifty long range damaging spells.

I suppose the others could do...something....toss a few arrows maybe?

[Illven]

Well we're not having problems yet, because it isn't happening yet. I anticpate a problem

[Lycanthromancer]

This depends a lot on what your casters have prepared.

Basically, drop a lot of battlefield control on the enemy in the first round, then start dropping disposable minions and buffing them up hard. Add any BFC you need to after the first round that may be useful, and whatever you do don't hesitate to destroy their ability to use ranged attacks (wind wall is good for this, if you have it).

Pull out some more wall spells to keep them down if they decide to ignore your summons, then let the minions kill them from behind.