Rakshasa rajah questions

[Doctor D&D]

So I got dragon 337 and am reading up on these things and it specifically says the rajahs are immune to anything that binds there soul. And then the next sentance it says binding them is the only way to stop them.

What gives? There are 30 rajahs sealed up under Eberron even though it is expressily stated that they are immune to sealing.......

Other than the Teeth of Three (Secrets of Sarlona) I don't see any specifics on how to seal a rajah. Anyone know where to look?

The rajahs are all around lvl60 (20 HD and at least 40 class levels) but hardly optimized. Mainly because optimizing is for people with limits which rajahs have very little of. At what level can a group of 3-5 gestalts take them on with a decent chance of winning?

Thanks in advance

[Fawsto]

Been reading Eberron lately. I am inclined to use the Archdukes of Hell and the Demon Princes as Rajahs instead of anything else.

Really, the campaing setting does not offer a great insight on them.

[PairO'Dice Lost]

So I got dragon 337 and am reading up on these things and it specifically says the rajahs are immune to anything that binds there soul. And then the next sentance it says binding them is the only way to stop them.

What gives? There are 30 rajahs sealed up under Eberron even though it is expressily stated that they are immune to sealing.......

I'm pretty sure this is a variation on the "no mortal magic" clause for a bunch of epic/deific things--you need deific or epic magic to bind them, so while they can be bound under Eberron as they are, a wizard 20 coming along and trying a trap the soul is going to be ignored.

Other than the Teeth of Three (Secrets of Sarlona) I don't see any specifics on how to seal a rajah. Anyone know where to look?

Can't help you there; I haven't seen anything else either.

The rajahs are all around lvl60 (20 HD and at least 40 class levels) but hardly optimized. Mainly because optimizing is for people with limits which rajahs have very little of. At what level can a group of 3-5 gestalts take them on with a decent chance of winning?

I don't know, they look plenty optimized to me...by which I mean one of them arbitrarily gets the ability to be a wizard+++ and destroy antimagic fields and get ridiculous save DCs and so forth, and the other example is a pushover. Like most epic monsters, they're basically high-level casters with a boatload of immunities, a few "screw you, PCs!" abilities, and little to differentiate them. There's one with 21st level casting with no special abilities, which you should be able to take down with a dedicated anti-mage party at around 17th level or so, and the one with 40th level casting and anti-antimagic abilities would probably require 30th-level characters.

[Another_Poet]

So I got dragon 337 and am reading up on these things and it specifically says the rajahs are immune to anything that binds there soul. And then the next sentance it says binding them is the only way to stop them.

What gives? There are 30 rajahs sealed up under Eberron even though it is expressily stated that they are immune to sealing.......

I would say this is a case of specific trumps general. They are immune to soul-binding in general but some specific method of doing so is an exception to that and it's the only way to permanently stop them.

Alternately it may just be poor wording. "soul binding" and "binding" may not be the same thing. When I think of soul binding I think of things like Magic Jar (as well as the process of becoming a lich). When I think of binding a powerful demon-like creature as the only way of stopping it, I think of Great and Lesser Planar Binding. This does not really bind the thing's soul, it binds the whole creature. For a 19+ HD creature you would need some epic version of the spell.

Alternately there's the spell Binding. It has absolutely nothing to do with a creature's soul, it can be used to lock a creature bodily in a Hedged Prison forever. Sounds like a good way to stop a Rakshasa. Good luck getting it to fail its save however.

Other than the Teeth of Three (Secrets of Sarlona) I don't see any specifics on how to seal a rajah. Anyone know where to look?

Sounds like you have your answer? Otherwise use Binding as suggested above. It is not soul binding and should bypass the immunity to soul binding effects.

The rajahs are all around lvl60 (20 HD and at least 40 class levels) but hardly optimized. Mainly because optimizing is for people with limits which rajahs have very little of. At what level can a group of 3-5 gestalts take them on with a decent chance of winning?

3-5 is a wide range of power. Also the CR of the rajah will vary widely by whether the class levels compliment its natural abilities or not. If yes it is CR 60. I would say 3 well-built gestalts could take on the CR 60 creature at level 55. I'd say 5 well-built gestalts could do it at level 50.

If the rajah's class levels don't mesh well with its natural abilities than it is CR 50. I wwould say 3 could take it at levels 43+ and 5 could do it at level 40 or maybe lower.

ap

[Doctor D&D]

Here's a summary of rajah trait I have on them from dragon 337

Spoiler

Show

auto clairvoyance of 7 miles that can pierce darkness.

Max HP

SR 40 fast healing 25

Immortal spirit (can't be killed period)

+27 (7 for infernal and 20 natural) and +Chr mod deflection bonus to AC

+7 to all saving throws, skills, attack, ability checks, caster levels checks, and turning checks. Does not automatically fail on a roll of 1.

DR 40/magic or 15/good and piercing which ever is applicable.

Immune to ability damage/drain, and a bunch of other debuffs (no spamming Shivering touch on them)

Immune to cold, fire, acid, resistance to electric and sonic 30

Immune to all standard binding (I suppose it would have to be epic or sacrifing more coutls)

Greater teleport, polymorph, detect thoughs at will and as a level 20 wizard.

Dread aura of 700 feet, -4 for all d20 rolls for you and +4 for all d20 rolls for rajah and his buddies.

Embodiment of evil: use domain spells as SLA and domain powers more often.

Then you have class levels.

Sul Khatesh has 36 levels in wizard and 4 in archmage, counterspell as a free action, Epic level spells (up level 15 spells), all spells "prepared" on the spot (no spellbook needed), automatically overcome any anitmagic field. Oh and her weapon (+5 ghost touch quarterstaff) automatically dispels your buff and makes you lose your highest level spells.

Ok I take it back, they are very optimized......I'm not sure a level 17 gestalt wizard can even cast level 10 spells, much less level 15.

[PairO'Dice Lost]

Here's a summary of rajah trait I have on them from dragon 337

Spoiler

Show

auto clairvoyance of 7 miles that can pierce darkness.

Max HP

SR 40 fast healing 25

Immortal spirit (can't be killed period)

+27 (7 for infernal and 20 natural) and +Chr mod deflection bonus to AC

+7 to all saving throws, skills, attack, ability checks, caster levels checks, and turning checks. Does not automatically fail on a roll of 1.

DR 40/magic or 15/good and piercing which ever is applicable.

Immune to ability damage/drain, and a bunch of other debuffs (no spamming Shivering touch on them)

Immune to cold, fire, acid, resistance to electric and sonic 30

Immune to all standard binding (I suppose it would have to be epic or sacrifing more coutls)

Greater teleport, polymorph, detect thoughs at will and as a level 20 wizard.

Dread aura of 700 feet, -4 for all d20 rolls for you and +4 for all d20 rolls for rajah and his buddies.

Embodiment of evil: use domain spells as SLA and domain powers more often.

Then you have class levels.

Sul Khatesh has 36 levels in wizard and 4 in archmage, counterspell as a free action, Epic level spells (up level 15 spells), all spells "prepared" on the spot (no spellbook needed), automatically overcome any anitmagic field. Oh and her weapon (+5 ghost touch quarterstaff) automatically dispels your buff and makes you lose your highest level spells.

Ok I take it back, they are very optimized......I'm not sure a level 17 gestalt wizard can even cast level 10 spells, much less level 15.

Like I said, a bunch of "Screw you, PCs!" abilities on top of high-level casting. My 17th-level party estimate was for the much weaker CR 24 Voice of Chaos, who just has sorcerer 17/archmage 4 casting and no special abilities; you'd need to be 30th level or so just to match the Keeper of Secrets's save DCs and have epic spells to resist dispelling and dispel her buffs.

[Doctor D&D]

The Keeper of secrets is optimized to kill PCs for sure. As if casting 15th level spells wasn't bad enough, it can counterspell all day long and ignore antimagic fields..... Who said there is no epic challenges in Eberron?

Okay I found a rather definitive way to bind rajahs: Epic dragon magic and sacrifice a few coualts (on endangered species list if not completly extinct already). Massive dragonahards, starting your own religion and moving mountains maybe involved as well.

It makes you wonder how the couatls and dragons managed to seal 30 of them.

[Runestar]

I am guessing soul-binding refers to abilities such as trap the soul, while binding is as per the 8th lv spell (which can be a physical effect).

The rajahs are all around lvl60 (20 HD and at least 40 class levels) but hardly optimized.

There is a reason behind the phrase "multclassed to uselessness".

They should at least take practiced spellcaster and abjurant champion. This way, their caster lv will at least improve every other lv. I can understand the allure of multiclassing, since lv21+ in a caster class doesn't grant much beyond improved caster lv and bonus epic feats.

The Keeper of secrets is optimized to kill PCs for sure. As if casting 15th level spells wasn't bad enough, it can counterspell all day long and ignore antimagic fields..... Who said there is no epic challenges in Eberron?

Is there a cr for it? Even epic npcs are not necessarily exempt from the action economy limitation unless they have taken auto-quicken/arcane spellsurge and multispell several times.

For inspiration, look to the nagahydra (serpent kingdoms). cr18, sorc15 spellcasting, can cast up to 7 spells each round. Now that's a beastie.

[PairO'Dice Lost]

There is a reason behind the phrase "multclassed to uselessness".

They should at least take practiced spellcaster and abjurant champion. This way, their caster lv will at least improve every other lv. I can understand the allure of multiclassing, since lv21+ in a caster class doesn't grant much beyond improved caster lv and bonus epic feats.

Is there a cr for it? Even epic npcs are not necessarily exempt from the action economy limitation unless they have taken auto-quicken/arcane spellsurge and multispell several times.

For reference, the Keeper of Secrets is a wizard 36/archmage 4 who has 4/8/8/8/8/7/6/6/6/6/3/3/2/2/2/2 wizard spells per day (all cast spontaneously, with no metamagic time adjustment), every wizard/sorcerer spell known, Epic Heighten and several other metamagics (with Improved Metamagic once), Auto-Quicken Spell up to 6th level spells, Multispell twice, and Epic Spellcasting with +85 Spellcraft, and that's just the class abilities and feats. Not exactly multiclassing to uselessness.

[Doctor D&D]

Quoted directly from the source (written by Keith Baker himself)
"Overlords are immune to any standard binding spell, including binding, imprisonment, replusion, soul bind, trap the soul, turning or rebuking" Dragon 337 pg67

So to answer all you "just bind it" people, no you can't bind a rakshasa rajah.

The Keeper of Secrets is the only fully stated rajah. Others include
Cleric 15/fighter15/blackgaurd 10
Rogue 15/ Sor15/mindbender 10
Bard20/wizard10/loremaster10

Those don't seem quite as optimized as her.

[Teron]

Quoted directly from the source (written by Keith Baker himself)
"Overlords are immune to any standard binding spell, including binding, imprisonment, replusion, soul bind, trap the soul, turning or rebuking" Dragon 337 pg67

So to answer all you "just bind it" people, no you can't bind a rakshasa rajah.

Immune to any standard binding spell. A quasi-divine force of pure good and law created by the willing sacrifice of an entire race of outsiders is probably a bit more powerful than a ninth level spell.

[Runestar]

For reference, the Keeper of Secrets is a wizard 36/archmage 4 who has 4/8/8/8/8/7/6/6/6/6/3/3/2/2/2/2 wizard spells per day (all cast spontaneously, with no metamagic time adjustment), every wizard/sorcerer spell known, Epic Heighten and several other metamagics (with Improved Metamagic once), Auto-Quicken Spell up to 6th level spells, Multispell twice, and Epic Spellcasting with +85 Spellcraft, and that's just the class abilities and feats. Not exactly multiclassing to uselessness.

I was referring to the other rajahs. I recall at least one taking lvs in rogue, and a raksasha who took lvs in wizard and loremaster. Bah, ultimate magus would probably have been so much better.

[Beelzebub1111]

As far as binding goes...it says that the Coatls got together and did it.

The binding spell only allows a save to those who's hit dice are one half the caster level. If they have 60 total HD, then let's assume that one 20th level caster and a Crapload of other coatls casting Dominate Person (adding a minimum of 3 to the caster level) you would only need a maximum of 33 and 1/3 extra casters.