[3.5] Shadow Conjuration

[Jergmo]

In a friend's upcoming campaign, I'm playing a Beguiler, and I built the character so I could take Shadow Conjuration or another 4th level spell if I really ended up wanting to. However, looking over the Conjuration(Creation) and Conjuration(Summoning) spells from 1st-3rd level, I am rather unimpressed.

Are there some great spells from splatbooks (and so on) in this range that I'm overlooking?

[Jack_Simth]

Well, there's:
The Lesser Orbs (Spell Compendium)
Glitterdust, Web, Stinking Cloud (Core - Will, Reflex, and Fort save-or-suck spells)
Phantom Steed (Core)

Basically, you take Shadow Conjouration, not because the spells it fakes are impressive, but because it gives you access to things that help with several classes of critters that would pretty much bend you over and have their way with you, otherwise.

[Escheton]

killer gnome guides tend to have some good suggestions for that I think.
Don't have a link though...

[lsfreak]

1d4+1 celestial trapmonkies.

In addition to just using things like Grease and Web as they are normally used, people will probably avoid them entirely if you cast them right. I.e. if you web part of a room, people will avoid it on principle and therefore never be allowed a save in the first place. Grease, whether real or not, will probably be avoided when it's on a slope that leads down to a drop, or on a narrow bridge.

[Jergmo]

Hmm...alright, I'll take a closer look at things. Thank you, strangers!

Actually, summoning 1d3 Lemures doesn't sound like a bad idea...we've got gosh-darned elven wizards with fireballs to contend with, summoning them right next to one sounds fun. It'd at least serve as a distraction.

[Jergmo]

Wait...if I were to use Shadow Conjuration to acquire Greater Mage Armor, and it was recognized as an illusion...would it only grant 1 AC?

[Paul H]

Hi

Beguilers, Hmmm......... yummy!

Don't forget Mass Whelm, linked in with SF Enchantment, and Unsettling Enchantment works well.

Just a thought, but since you could technically cast a fire spell with Shadow Conjuration, does that meet prereq for Fiery Burst?

Thanks
Paul H

[nargbop]

Wait...if I were to use Shadow Conjuration to acquire Greater Mage Armor, and it was recognized as an illusion...would it only grant 1 AC?

That's right. Google for 'Killer Gnome' and Shadowcraft Mage to see builds that get around this little problem. It's a bookkeeping problem for the DM and a potentially lethal issue for the PC. Find ways to boost your DC as high as possible, and then lengthen those spells with good DCs.

[Jergmo]

That's right. Google for 'Killer Gnome' and Shadowcraft Mage to see builds that get around this little problem. It's a bookkeeping problem for the DM and a potentially lethal issue for the PC. Find ways to boost your DC as high as possible, and then lengthen those spells with good DCs.

Well, I do have Shadow Weave Magic and Insidious Magic if that's part of it. Although I thought it would count as being interacted with if someone attacks me.

[PId6]

Wait...if I were to use Shadow Conjuration to acquire Greater Mage Armor, and it was recognized as an illusion...would it only grant 1 AC?

No. The only one actually affected by the illusion is you, so as long as you intentionally fail the save, you'll get the full effect of the spell. Even if you make the save for some reason, you'll have 20% chance to acquire the Greater Mage Armor, and 80% for the spell not to affect you; lessening the AC bonus isn't part of the rules.

[Jergmo]

No. The only one actually affected by the illusion is you, so as long as you intentionally fail the save, you'll get the full effect of the spell. Even if you make the save for some reason, you'll have 20% chance to acquire the Greater Mage Armor, and 80% for the spell not to affect you; lessening the AC bonus isn't part of the rules.

If my insane, dysfunctional companions fail to be in the way, melee attacks would be interacting with it.

[PId6]

If my insane, dysfunctional companions fail to be in the way, melee attacks would be interacting with it.

If you use Shadow Conjuration to give enemies a -2 to attack, would the people they attack get a save to negate the -2? The spell only targets you, and provides a bonus for you, so by RAW, enemies would not get a save against it. It could be houseruled to work that way, but I really don't see the point in nerfing the spell that way.

[Jack_Simth]

If you use Shadow Conjuration to give enemies a -2 to attack, would the people they attack get a save to negate the -2? The spell only targets you, and provides a bonus for you, so by RAW, enemies would not get a save against it. It could be houseruled to work that way, but I really don't see the point in nerfing the spell that way.

If I use Shadow Evocation to put a resilient Sphere around the Rogue, does the golem walk through it and squish the Rogue? The golem encounters it when it blocks his path. It always permits SR. The golem is immune to effects that permit SR. So the golem walks right through? Or not? Why the distinction from a regular old Greater Shadow Evocation Wall of Force?

It's fuzzy enough that you'll get different answers from different DM's.

[JeminiZero]

It can also emulate Create Magic Tattoo (besides the above mentioned Greater Mage Armor) without the material component cost.

[PId6]

If I use Shadow Evocation to put a resilient Sphere around the Rogue, does the golem walk through it and squish the Rogue? The golem encounters it when it blocks his path. It always permits SR. The golem is immune to effects that permit SR. So the golem walks right through? Or not? Why the distinction from a regular old Greater Shadow Evocation Wall of Force?

That's different because the sphere is an actual object that blocks LoE, which means it can be touched by other creatures. Mage Armor simply provides a bonus to a statistic, which is quite different by RAW.

[quiet1mi]

Good sir, may I direct you to horde of servants in the spell compendium...

This gives you 2d6+Caster level of invisible servants... these servants have Strength 2 and thus can pull 100 lbs and carry 20 lbs. In addition, they can all hold an alchemist fire, or an acid, and be instructed to drop them in the opposing square.

In addition, they take up a square so they break charges and multiples of them may force squeezing penalties on those in the same square. In addition, I find them to be great distractions when I am invisible. I give them all an alchemist fire and cast ventriloquism. My opponents attack the square it comes from, hit an alchemist fire and take damage... Also good for thunderstones. A wand of benign transposition is also great with the above for getting out of tight situations.

Next on the list is Summon monster III for 1d4+1 hawks or ravens. Why those, well they have the highest attack bonus for their number. "But they do not deal damage" you reply, but they do. Aid another requires you to hit AC 10 and flanking is caused by having someone on the other side. ~3 of these birds can supply +8 to hit for the party Power attacker or +6 to AC as they ruin attacks by going for the eye. Do not forget that they can also use AOO and ready actions, nothing is better than to have them attack a mage while he is casting a spell because he might fail his concentration check.

Another spell I find myself using often is Phantom Steeds, nothing like traveling on a motorcycle (seriously do the conversions to MPH) to get from point a to point b.

[Runestar]

Emulating phantom steed as a standard action (instead of 10 minutes) is another good use of said spell.

[Jack_Simth]

That's different because the sphere is an actual object that blocks LoE, which means it can be touched by other creatures. Mage Armor simply provides a bonus to a statistic, which is quite different by RAW.

And Mage Armor is not actually getting in the way of blows? The spell description says it's a "tangible field" that "surrounds the subject" - why wouldn't it be ignored by a critter with Magic Immunity if it permitted SR?

[Jergmo]

-snip-

Ha, nice. I didn't know Unseen Servants were actually tangible in that way, though.

Do you happen to know what page the spell is on, or somewhere it's posted? I can't seem to find anything doing a search, but hunting and pecking through the SpC'll work.

Edit: Nevermind. I was looking for "Horde of Servants" when it's "Servant Horde".

[PId6]

And Mage Armor is not actually getting in the way of blows? The spell description says it's a "tangible field" that "surrounds the subject" - why wouldn't it be ignored by a critter with Magic Immunity if it permitted SR?

That description is simply fluff; in game terms, it just gives a target a bonus to AC, meaning it only interacts with the target. Perhaps it might make sense for it to allow SR/saves from enemies, but that's houserule territory. As written, Mage Armor targets you and gives you a bonus; it doesn't affect anyone else, and it doesn't create an object to be interacted with.