Specifically Difficult Player

[Karoht]

Normally I'm not one to complain about a problem player in my group. Typically, the group works things out itself well enough. But in this particular instance, The problem player is becoming a bigger and bigger problem with each session. I'll explain.

1-When there is a problem, any problem at all, he wants to roll dice to solve it. He is almost refusing to roleplay even. I typically award experience for solving puzzles or at least hazzarding attempts, now he's complaining that he's got less experience than everyone else. Worst of all is, he is EASILY the smartest guy at the table, all of these puzzles are very much in his scope to solve. IE-He was taken to court for blatently murdering a dozen people (including a major noble) in town square. He refused to even answer questions by prosecution, didn't want to defend himself at all, just told the DM 'just skip to the end, what is the reprocussions?'
2-If he starts getting bored, he'll just start trying to kill PC's. As in, player A is doing some shopping in the market place, consulting the DM regarding a magic item, all of a sudden pulls a surprise action out of no where and fireballs the area. See example 1 for how it tends to play out.
3-He's becoming increasingly meta, especially when it comes to assaulting other players. I've actually had to tell other players NOT to disclose ANYTHING about their character sheet to him, such as spells prepared, saves, AC, skills, nothing. Because he will specifically begin to tailor his next surprise attack in the middle of no where towards that player.
4-He refuses any change in his alignment as a result of his actions, and treats 'chaotic' as an excuse to pretty much anything. IE-One PC he met once and only once, the PC bought him dinner, had a great discussion with him, and helped him by sharing his spellbook. The next day, without the PC's knowledge that the player was even there, fireballed him and his cohorts in the back. Most people typically see the connection between having a friendly encounter with someone only to then commit a pre-meditated murder as at the very least, not an example of a Chaotic Good alignment.
5-He's recently become a bit of a loot thief, and if someone legitimately acquires some kind of powerful object, he's either a jerk, murders that person for it, or he mopes.

The part that disturbs me most, is that all of these behaviors are the kind he used to complain about other party members (who are no longer with the group) doing. Now he's doing it. And it's come on all of a sudden, not gradually.

Strangely enough, if I show up, he typically keeps from attacking party members, but sometimes the minute I walk away from the table (IE-Going to the bathroom), I come back to him grinning like an idiot and a half dead or mostly dead party. If I don't show up for session, I typically get a phone call about a party member rolling a new character. Guess why. And he never target's my character's for some reason. No, we are not brothers, we aren't even really friends in case it matters.

I'm trying to figure out if there is a bigger picture than what I can see. Is there an underlying cause? Is there something PC's are doing which is setting him off? Why the lack of roleplaying when he used to be THE MOST in character person at the table? Is there something other party members are doing wrong? DM's doing wrong? Something I'm doing wrong?

Any thoughts or suggestion's would be great. The party has spoken to me about it, and if things don't fix up soon, it is going to fall to me to kick him out.

[SolkaTruesilver]

Have you talked about it to the other players?

[Prodan]

Have you tried destroying him?

[DragoonWraith]

It sounds like he doesn't even want to be there. I mean, he gets bored playing the game, and he constantly seeks to disrupt it. It seems quite likely that he doesn't actually want to play. Why he continues to show up if this is the case confuses me, but that's what it seems like.

You might consider asking him just that directly. Like, "hey, is there something wrong with the game? You keep seeming bored with actually playing it, and you keep disrupting it; it doesn't really seem like you want to play. What's going on?"

[Zovc]

It sounds like he doesn't even want to be there. I mean, he gets bored playing the game, and he constantly seeks to disrupt it. It seems quite likely that he doesn't actually want to play. Why he continues to show up if this is the case confuses me, but that's what it seems like.

You might consider asking him just that directly. Like, "hey, is there something wrong with the game? You keep seeming bored with actually playing it, and you keep disrupting it; it doesn't really seem like you want to play. What's going on?"

Indeed, your player seems bored.

[SolkaTruesilver]

Indeed, your player seems bored.

If a player is bored, is it the GM's fault, or the player's?

In the same kind of question, if a player snores during a D&D game, does he make a sound?

[Greenish]

He's in love with you!

[DragoonWraith]

If a player is bored, is it the GM's fault, or the player's?

There doesn't seem to be any way this could be the DM's fault. I mean, the player isn't even trying, so he's not even getting to anything that might be interesting.

[Tanuki Tales]

He's in love with you!

I have to agree in the vein that from your description it sounds like he's only doing this to grab and garner your attention personally.

[Vitruviansquid]

First of all, I find it hard to imagine that we, who only get information about your situation from you, would be able to have an insight into the situation that you didn't have.

Second, it definitely seems to me like there's some part of the puzzle that you haven't figured out. If I were to hazard a guess, it's one of the following

1. The player is bored with the game so he's trying to destroy it.

2. The player is upset over how other people are playing the game, so he's passive aggressively trying to demonstrate how they're being asshats (in his view) by acting in the same ass-hattish ways himself.

3. The player is mad at the other people at the table for one thing or another and is taking it out on them in-game.

[Eurus]

He's in love with you!

You have no idea how close I was to saying that exact thing.

But yeah, the symptoms suggest that it's probably boredom.

[Lapak]

You might consider asking him just that directly. Like, "hey, is there something wrong with the game? You keep seeming bored with actually playing it, and you keep disrupting it; it doesn't really seem like you want to play. What's going on?"

This is the best advice you're going to get. We can only guess at the problem; your player can TELL you what the problem is. If he has an answer, you can try to address it; if he doesn't, or if his reasons are bad, you should say "Look, you're making the game suck, and no one is having fun. Stop it, or you're no longer welcome to play."

[Zovc]

If a player is bored, is it the GM's fault, or the player's?

Well, I don't feel like I'm capable of providing any insight on that.

[KillianHawkeye]

Tell him to shape up or stop coming to the game. He's bored, and nobody else is having fun with him around. He either has to change to fit back in with the group or go find himself a new one.

[WeeFreeMen]

Your party (In game) doesn't retaliate?
Im not a fan of PvP, however, in this instance maybe he needs a dose of his own sadistic meds.

Is your party not able to handle him? Does he not sleep?
Fireballing a merchant district would surely upset some merchant bodyguards.
They have the money to buy the burly ones too.

I can't help but blame both player and DM. While its obviously the players lack of interest and wishing to spoil the game, some blame can be led to the DM for letting it even go that far.

If I was DM, I wouldn't allow a TKP while someone was in bathroom. Hell, he probably wouldn't have gotten outa the courthouse.
Next time he says "Just skip to the end" tell him there can be no end without him traveling the road to get there.

Just because he is intellectual, doesn't mean he gets to be arrogant.
All else fails, give him the boot and split his gear amongst the party as he had a sudden heart attack and died. (No save).

[KillianHawkeye]

Next time he says "Just skip to the end" tell him there can be no end without him traveling the road to get there.

No, the next time he says "Just skip to the end," tell him that he's been executed for his repeated crimes, roll a new character.

[Karoht]

"First of all, I find it hard to imagine that we, who only get information about your situation from you, would be able to have an insight into the situation that you didn't have."
I'm in the situation and I seem to have difficulty grasping the insight I need to solve it. Thus I seek assistance, whether it be the exact advice I need or an oddball theory straight out of left field. I'll take what I can get. Beggers can't be choosers. In other words, I'm willing to try anything, which includes getting any and all insight I can from others who are disconnected from the situation.
My hope is also that non-involved people might have better luck spotting something amiss.

Some very excellent replies. Some things I have considered:

1-DM's Fault-Had this discussion with the DM already, and literally everyone else seems to be engaged. He's engaged if he's fireballing something, or dealing with his side of the loot. He's not engaged if anyone else is fireballing or looting. At least, this seems to be the observation of all players at the table, and the DM, and myself.
As a side note to this, typically his character is the one railroading/browbeating the rest of the party to go off on various quests. He's the one picking the plot threads to chase most of the time. Doesn't help that his decisions typically suck (because he's not really trying/caring about the reprocussions), or his actions tend to bog things down or get everyone into trouble, etc.

2-Attention/Revenge-That had actually crossed my mind. I wouldn't be surprised if he's taking out personal issues in game with people. I just have absolutely no idea what those personal issues are with anyone else. The DM's brought up his meta-behavior, he flatly denies any meta gaming whatsoever, regardless of how clearly the meta gaming is.

3-"The player is upset over how other people are playing the game, so he's passive aggressively trying to demonstrate how they're being asshats (in his view) by acting in the same ass-hattish ways himself." There was a player who was previously in the group who played the way he's playing now. This player was removed from the group, as well as broke off all sources of friendship with everyone from the gaming group. I'd like to point out that the problem player was vehemently against EVERYTHING that this banned player did, only he's slowly acting and even sounding like him. To my knowledge, the two were never friends and don't hang out or anything currently. But this might be a clue.

4-Punishment in Game-We've had him be attacked by guards when he does disruptive things. We've had him arrested and tried for murder, which he really didn't care about much. He tends to just wait for his punishment, deal with it or break it, and move on to similar behaviors. I'm not so sure that killing his character would really impact him at all. Even publically executing him.

5-Punishment out of Game-We've been talking about banning him, or at least asking him to take a break for a while. We're taking this very seriously, because this is the second person we've had to do something like this with in 7 years of the same game group. We'd really rather not kick him out. If this week's session goes badly, we're probably going to ask him to sit out a few weeks.

Again, I'm willing to consider any possibility, any suggestion, any action. That includes just booting him. I'm not looking for a reassuring pat on the back and someone saying "don't worry, he's just a jerk" and feel free to say "dude, it's totally you because you suck" kind of thing.


For the record and context of the discussion:
There are 5 players and 1 GM. I am one of the PC's, and (especially lately) I've been more of a quite skillmonkey in order to give others the spotlight (though I do have my moments) rather than taking center stage, especially from problem player. Some sessions I've been practically invisible.
And yes, I've done my best to engage him in session myself, he tends to ignore any and all attempts to role play conversations or any other kinds of interaction I can come up with while the DM is busy with someone else.

[Kaun]

I take a hard line with this kind of stuff.

I ask them what the deal is once and if they havn't got a damn good reason i tell them to pull their head in or don't bother turning up.

[Karoht]

Normally I'm more hard-nosed about it as well, but it isn't my game. The DM is a great storyteller, runs combat quick and action packed, puts together some excellent puzzles. This player has run with this DM before and never had an issue until lately. Seems to have started just in early March.

[Lapak]

Again, I'm willing to consider any possibility, any suggestion, any action.
*snip*
And yes, I've done my best to engage him in session myself, he tends to ignore any and all attempts to role play conversations or any other kinds of interaction I can come up with while the DM is busy with someone else.

Seriously, though: talk to him outside the context of the game. It's not something you should (or even can) address at the gaming table, with the group; it's something you should address face-to-face individually.

[Karoht]

Seriously, though: talk to him outside the context of the game. It's not something you should (or even can) address at the gaming table, with the group; it's something you should address face-to-face individually.

I'll be doing so before next session, for sure. If his behavior is crap during the session, the group will vote on having him take a break or not. Or banning him, temporary or perminent, if it comes to that.

Oddball suggestion, the DM was talking about sending his character on a solo mission. Thoughts? I'm neither for or against such an action.

[Kaun]

I'll be doing so before next session, for sure. If his behavior is crap during the session, the group will vote on having him take a break or not. Or banning him, temporary or perminent, if it comes to that.

Oddball suggestion, the DM was talking about sending his character on a solo mission. Thoughts? I'm neither for or against such an action.

I am not sure how that will fix anything unless it involves him being shot into the sun?

[valadil]

Honestly? I don't think he wants to play D&D. I think he wants Grand Theft Auto. Let him play GTA instead.

[Lin Bayaseda]

No, the next time he says "Just skip to the end," tell him that he's been executed for his repeated crimes, roll a new character.

I would skip the "roll up a new character" part.

[Susano-wo]

It really sounds like he's got some sort of mental health diagnosis. Seriously, I'm not throwing that out there to be insulting. He's acting rather...crazy, in the literal sense. Aside from that, perhaps he just tried the behavior out and thinks its fun/funny now...I don't know. Just really smacks of him needing counseling/meds...

[Talon Sky]

No, the next time he says "Just skip to the end," tell him that he's been executed for his repeated crimes, roll a new character.

This. Just....so this. Show this to your DM.

No PC in my campaigns is stupid enough to fireball a merchant district or any public place. For God's sake, if it's anything bigger then a small village, the town guard should be able to take him down. At the very least, most towns have one or two taverns that conveniently house extremely powerful DMPC adventurers who would be happy to stop the 'evil wizard attacking the city' much as the PC's would.

More realistically, I agree with how you and your group is handling this, but make sure the problem player is aware of why you're voting to boot him and he's there to defend himself/see the voting. Seeing his friends (I am assuming, after all, you guys ARE friends) so disturbed and serious about this might make him realize what he's been doing.

[KillianHawkeye]

I would skip the "roll up a new character" part.

I suppose that part is optional.

[Kaun]

It really sounds like he's got some sort of mental health diagnosis. Seriously, I'm not throwing that out there to be insulting. He's acting rather...crazy, in the literal sense. Aside from that, perhaps he just tried the behavior out and thinks its fun/funny now...I don't know. Just really smacks of him needing counseling/meds...

Sheilds up mate!

For some reason makeing an armchair diagnosis in these forums is flame bait.

[Catch]

He's bored with your game, but afraid of directly messing with you.

Buy him a World of Warcraft subscription (they sell $30 game cards) and tell him not to bother showing up next time. He can skip boring "plot" sections, grief all the players he wants, and doesn't have to deal with physical repercussions.

Perfect solution. See if you can't get the other players to chip in - with a group of five, it's only $6 a head.

[Susano-wo]

Sheilds up mate!

For some reason makeing an armchair diagnosis in these forums is flame bait.

Well, hopefully I can at least reduce it by saying this: I'm not trying to diagnose, just saying that is sets off those sorts of flags in my head. I don't know the person nearly well enough or the situation enough to make a concrete judgment.
The guy just wants anything that might help...course I don't know if that will help. even if that is the case what can anyone but the person in question do about it...
IN any case, I apologize for not putting that disclaimer up with the post. I tried to word it as cautiously as possible, and allow that its only a possibility. So I hope no one is offended or thinking I am trying to diagnose someone I don't even know