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    Default Combat Rules for a Stronghold 4X Game?

    I'm thinking of using a combat system with hexes, like in erfworld.

    But I want to keep the system very open to including new units in accordance to progressing technology as well as different versed races.

    The actual game begins in the dark ages.

    Anyone have any idea how the combat system in erfworld goes?

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    Default Re: Combat Rules for a Stronghold 4X Game?

    C'mon guys, this could be fun.

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    Default Re: Combat Rules for a Stronghold 4X Game?

    Well I do LOVE Erfworld and I've been collecting every info bit I can get.

    However I must strongly advise against civilization research style. "Basic" Erfworld with it's large unit variety, mancers and leadership system would already offer plenty of stuff to do and be hard to implement.


    Cities

    -Cities produce resources depending on the adjacent terrain.
    -Cities can't be truly destroyed, just razed back to lv1 for resources.
    -No new cities can built.
    -Cities produce smuckers and provisions every turn, and can be assigned to produce units as well whitout actualy paying money for the production.
    -Walls give a bonus against land attacks and towers give a bonus against air attacks. They're independent of each other.
    -Cities can be upgraded, with exponential smucker costs, but the stronger they are the bigger they production ability and the stronger the defenses it can be fited with. Most cities are lv2-3.
    -The units a city can produce depend on the faction that upgraded it. An enemy captured city will be able to produce troops from that side's type, but you can raze it and rebuild it in your image to produce your own units.

    Troops:
    -troops basic statistics are move, attack and defense. Basic troops seem to have one single HP but leaders and heavy units can whitstand multiple blows.
    -Troops demand upkeep and rations. Lack of either will make them disband, but units can search for it's own upkeep in the wilderness.
    -The power of an army comes from both numbers and leadership. Unleaded troops are little more than cannon fodder, with a lv1warlord making it's troops three times as strong.
    -Singular units can be focused fire, but leaders can counter this by using their troops as meatshields. Probably some random stuff in there.
    -Dance fighting is quite powerfull. Rocking is even better. But not everybody can do it.
    -Flying units can fly away out of reach of other nonfliers but archers, but when they attack land troops they open themselves to counter attacks.
    -Archers deal brutal damage against airborne targets, but are considerably weaker against enemies on land.
    -Units can be grouped on stacks, geting a bonus that caps at 8 members.
    -Certain troops get combat bonus for certain terrains.
    -Many troops have special extra abilities.
    -Falling has an equal chance of dealing minor damage, leaving you near death or completely dead, regardless of how much you actualy fell.
    -Troops auto attack when unleaded.
    -You cannot move out of your hex if it isn't your turn.
    -Terrain hexes are divided in smaller hexes where tactical combat happens.
    -Leadership bonus is strongest at the hex where the warlord is, and then gets weaker for the more distant hexes.


    Neutrals
    -Wild animals pop out in the terrain every turn. They can be hunted for rations or tamed to add them to your combat force. Stronger units are harder to tame.
    -Tribes roam the land foraging for upkeep. You can offer them an alliance for money. Certain tribes won't join you if you already joined another tribe that's their natural enemy. Tribes offer you the option of quickly turning smuckers into new troops in a single turn. However tribes answer to the highest bidder and may betray you if someone makes a better offer.
    -the magic kingdom can only be acessed trough special portals (available at every city) that kill any nonmancer that tries to pass trough.
    -The magic kingdom is filled with mancers of all kinds that will sell scrolls and even work as mercenaries if you can pay their prices.
    -Certain kinds of mancers may refuse to do business with you if you have high level mancers of the oposite kind.

    Mancers:
    -Just like in D&D, magic is the brokenzt and mancers can easily change the tide of battles.
    -Unlike D&D, mancers are very squishy so risk them in the frontline at your own risk.
    -Whenever you build a warlord there's a chance a mancer pops up instead.
    -Each mancer has a random main magic school and cast spells from that school only, but can cast spells from other schools trough scrolls.
    -Mancers can produce scrolls from their own school.
    -Mancers can lead troops but only grant combat bonus to units they're directly related to.
    -Shockmancy is king of direct damage, stun ability, and can be used to create traps. Specialy effective against flying oponents.
    -Dirtmancy allows to increase a city's money income, cheaper city building, tunnel underground and the creation of several kinds of golems.
    -Thinkmancy allows for long range communication and mind manipulation.
    -Dittomancy doubles stuff.
    -Healomancy heals stuff.
    -Turnmancy allows to speed up city's production and make enemy units betray their side.
    -Croackmancy allows to turn enemy corpses into zombies wich rot over time. Corpses vanish in 24 hours so this must be done quickly. The more juice spent on a corpse the stronger it is(but never stronger than the original unit) and the longer it lasts Croackmancers grant the best bonus to their related troops to make up for their lack of versatility.
    -Moneymancy increases your smucker income like mad.
    -Foolmancy creates illusions.
    -Dollmancy creates cloth golems and basic objects of diferent kinds.
    -A thinkmancer can link two mancers to combine their powers and produce devastating effects, in return for being unable to do simple tasks.

    Artifacts and equipment:

    -Artifacts can be created by mancers or appear as random loot.
    -The right kind of battle armor will grant bonus to dance fighting.
    -Arkentools are rare unique artifacts that unleash game-breaking abilities like uncroackeds that don't decay and are as strong as the original thing.
    Last edited by Oslecamo; 2010-07-12 at 07:57 PM.

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    Default Re: Combat Rules for a Stronghold 4X Game?

    Cities
    1. Cities produce resources depending on the adjacent terrain.
    2. Cities can't be truly destroyed, just razed back to lv1 for resources.
    3. No new cities can built.
    4. Cities produce smuckers and provisions every turn, and can be assigned to produce units as well whitout actualy paying money for the production.
    5. Walls give a bonus against land attacks and towers give a bonus against air attacks. They're independent of each other.
    6. Cities can be upgraded, with exponential smucker costs, but the stronger they are the bigger they production ability and the stronger the defenses it can be fited with. Most cities are lv2-3.
    7. The units a city can produce depend on the faction that upgraded it. An enemy captured city will be able to produce troops from that side's type, but you can raze it and rebuild it in your image to produce your own units.
    1. I'm thinking each city has a population. Portions of that population can be made into workers. Workers have a level of job training equivalent to both experience, race and education - education is simply something you can finance, ie. scholar's education (assuming you have the alphabet technology) teaches any currently idle workers how to be scholars at an arbitrary price; usually education ends at the end of the turn, and so next turn the idle workers with scholar's education can be assigned the task of record keeping. Education speeds up when some of the population is assigned the task of 'tutor' or 'teacher'. Troops can be educated in new martial techniques (so now you can have light infantry ninjas - without education most troops are simply divided into cavalry and infantry (heavy and light), warlords (named units that command units), heros (named units with special abilities), and siege (units that require maintenance, such as workers; mainly for knocking down enemy fortification such as walls), with the addition of racial bonuses (ie. the humans of cheery bright gale have better light cavalry, while the gully dwarves are excellent at fighting on the hills, but only with their light infantry).

    Workers assigned the task of 'gathering resources' (depending on what the terrain allows; ie. mining or farming), acquire resources for the city. Resources are more or less just like money, except there's both food and misc. Misc. is for building (ie. wood, stone and metal), food is for survival, and money is for funding things like research and purchasing resources from far off lands.

    2. Assuming level 1 means that the city is a piece of land and not really a city. I'm thinking you should do all sorts of things to cities, like raise them to the ground (granted, this takes a massive siege effort, and thus either lots and lots of siege, lots of time and lots of money (for the siege)), kill everyone with biological warfare, expedite all citizens to a city that you already own, etc. All of which would cost a lot. Normally, the city is simply conquered (requires enemy to surrender - if the enemy does not surrender, the population of the city suffers lowered morale and thus lowered loyalty to the point that they join with the invader even if the invader does not officially own the city).

    3. New cities can be built, but they cost a lot of money, require settlers and you must appoint people to rule over them. That person's loyalty is now a value that they can control (they aren't simply loyal in accordance to their morale, like troops or workers). You must take action to ensure their loyalty (and if they are disloyal, find a quick way to get rid of them without city on city war).

    4. Cities produce money in accordance to whoever pays taxes. A population that is idle generally pays the most taxes, but workers with assigned tasks can also pay taxes too, but usually at less. The terrain type of a city varies. Some cities have already accessible tunnels. The quality of life in a city determines the 'standard of living' of your population, thus higher taxes can be weened out of your demographic.

    5. Sometimes towers control sections of a wall, such as the draw bridge or portcullis. Towers can also house siege units - towers are merely better off versus air then versus ground and the same applies to walls (but vice versa).

    6. Sounds good.

    7. Reforming a city serves little purpose, since it might cost money. Alternatively, it'd just be fluff. Players would be looking at some pen markings on a piece of paper anyway.
    ----

    Maps

    Continental maps have a scaling system. Actual close ups would be a map of each city, and then some room for outlying territory (ie. room for an invading army). At GM discretion, maps would need to be redone each time a player upgrades a city, since this essentially changes the city's appearance and adds new sections to it.

    Alternatively: A field of hexes would be made to accommodate the battlefield and terrain types. This might take a while since it demands more effort out of the GM.

    Neutrals
    1. Wild animals pop out in the terrain every turn. They can be hunted for rations or tamed to add them to your combat force. Stronger units are harder to tame.
    2. Tribes roam the land foraging for upkeep. You can offer them an alliance for money. Certain tribes won't join you if you already joined another tribe that's their natural enemy. Tribes offer you the option of quickly turning smuckers into new troops in a single turn. However tribes answer to the highest bidder and may betray you if someone makes a better offer.
    3. the magic kingdom can only be acessed trough special portals (available at every city) that kill any nonmancer that tries to pass trough.
    4. The magic kingdom is filled with mancers of all kinds that will sell scrolls and even work as mercenaries if you can pay their prices.
    5. Certain kinds of mancers may refuse to do business with you if you have high level mancers of the oposite kind.
    1. There's also mighty beasts such as dragons that hide out in certain territories. They can be captured and tamed (but be careful, it's more difficult depending on what education you have; the GM will never tell you exactly what you need such as troop size and education to capture or what you will even be facing if you don't have scouts to peek ahead).

    2. Each tribe differs. Some are bound by honor to serve not the highest bidder and others will sacrifice younglings in the name of their dark god. Others still will refuse to serve outright, since they detest the decadence of 'higher cultures'.

    3. Note that this isn't necessarily the erfworld setting. I'm just using erfworld as the basis for running a 4X strategy game. Portals could be like alternate dimensions - dimensions could do all sorts of things. They're like magical natural disasters. Sometimes they unleash hordes of daemons that devour the entire population of a city. Other times, they teleport a city to another location. Other times still, they mutate people or explode, or offer a glimpse into other planes of existence. It's all at GM discretion, generally.

    4. Magicians aren't necessarily a race of their own, although some tribes might have magicians. There are also traveling merchants and mercenaries that are magicians or have mage allies - they sell scrolls and offer magical services. Magic can also be accessed via education, provided your assigned teachers gather the right knowledge via either research or trading with another city, neutral or otherwise (sometimes a single traveling mystic can teach you everything you need to know).

    5. This is of course assuming there is good and evil sides to magic. Mercenaries and tribes generally think the same way if there are other tribes serving you. Note that you can still negotiate with them if you have decent enough ambassadors and diplomats, etc.

    Mancers:
    1. Just like in D&D, magic is the brokenzt and mancers can easily change the tide of battles.
    2. Unlike D&D, mancers are very squishy so risk them in the frontline at your own risk.
    3. Whenever you build a warlord there's a chance a mancer pops up instead.
    4. Each mancer has a random main magic school and cast spells from that school only, but can cast spells from other schools through scrolls.
    5. Mancers can produce scrolls from their own school.
    6. Mancers can lead troops but only grant combat bonus to units they're directly related to.
    7. Shockmancy is king of direct damage, stun ability, and can be used to create traps. Specialy effective against flying oponents.
    8. Dirtmancy allows to increase a city's money income, cheaper city building, tunnel underground and the creation of several kinds of golems.
    9. Thinkmancy allows for long range communication and mind manipulation.
    10. Dittomancy doubles stuff.
    11. Healomancy heals stuff.
    12. Turnmancy allows to speed up city's production and make enemy units betray their side.
    13. Croackmancy allows to turn enemy corpses into zombies wich rot over time. Corpses vanish in 24 hours so this must be done quickly. The more juice spent on a corpse the stronger it is(but never stronger than the original unit) and the longer it lasts Croackmancers grant the best bonus to their related troops to make up for their lack of versatility.
    14. Moneymancy increases your smucker income like mad.
    15. Foolmancy creates illusions.
    16. Dollmancy creates cloth golems and basic objects of diferent kinds.
    17. A thinkmancer can link two mancers to combine their powers and produce devastating effects, in return for being unable to do simple tasks.
    1. Sounds good.

    2. Fair enough.

    3. This doesn't really make sense. Mancers have to be sought after at a high cost. But they're worth it. Late game, a city could run purely by magic or by technology or both (you might have a 'magic vs. tech' war between two players). Some magic is refluffed as 'psionics' (just as a nod to D&D).

    4. Alright.

    5. Hm... I guess this makes sense, but learning more powerful spells in their own school requires either research or education from another mancer who already knows said spells.

    6. How about, "Only grant bonuses to troops that they can support with their magic" - ie. if a dittomancer has spells that duplicate only objects, then he can offer a damage and attack bonus to archers and ranged siege if he 'attacks' with them. Mancers are very useful in other words. They don't need to lead to help out.

    7. - 17. The different schools of magic should be at GM discretion. If you, as a player, think up a spell, it's up to the GM to decide whether or not you have enough information and education to be allowed it and if any of your mancers are of the right school.
    Last edited by imp_fireball; 2010-07-12 at 08:56 PM.

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    Default Re: Combat Rules for a Stronghold 4X Game?

    Quote Originally Posted by imp_fireball View Post
    1. I'm thinking each city has a population. Portions of that population can be made into workers. Workers have a level of job training equivalent to both experience, race and education - education is simply something you can finance, ie. scholar's education (assuming you have the alphabet technology) teaches any currently idle workers how to be scholars at an arbitrary price; usually education ends at the end of the turn, and so next turn the idle workers with scholar's education can be assigned the task of record keeping. Education speeds up when some of the population is assigned the task of 'tutor' or 'teacher'. Troops can be educated in new martial techniques (so now you can have light infantry ninjas - without education most troops are simply divided into cavalry and infantry (heavy and light), warlords (named units that command units), heros (named units with special abilities), and siege (units that require maintenance, such as workers; mainly for knocking down enemy fortification such as walls), with the addition of racial bonuses (ie. the humans of cheery bright gale have better light cavalry, while the gully dwarves are excellent at fighting on the hills, but only with their light infantry).
    Hmm, that kinda reminds me of the Romance of Three Kingdoms strategy game.
    -Each city has basically an infinite population for you to recruit from.
    -In order to get gold from said population you need markets and to get food you need farms. But each city has a limited buildeable area.
    -Each city also has an "Order" value between 0 and 100. An order of 100% means the city works at full power, anything less results in a penalty in food and gold production.
    -A barracks allows you to recruit troops, but that results in a penalty in Order.
    -Order can be restored with inspections wich cost gold.
    -All troops are equal, but you can equip them with diferent weapons that grant them special abilities, like horses giving movement bonus and spears allowing you to push enemies.
    -Troops can be trained, wich improves their will. Will is needed to execute any special combat tactic.
    -More sophisticated abilities like sneaking and stealing resources are granted by special leaders. So if you want your force of Ninjas you'll need the ninja warlord.
    -Leaders are however scarce so you need to diversify your army and know when to retreat or else see your leaders captured by the enemy.


    Quote Originally Posted by imp_fireball View Post
    2. Assuming level 1 means that the city is a piece of land and not really a city. I'm thinking you should do all sorts of things to cities, like raise them to the ground (granted, this takes a massive siege effort, and thus either lots and lots of siege, lots of time and lots of money (for the siege)), kill everyone with biological warfare, expedite all citizens to a city that you already own, etc. All of which would cost a lot. Normally, the city is simply conquered (requires enemy to surrender - if the enemy does not surrender, the population of the city suffers lowered morale and thus lowered loyalty to the point that they join with the invader even if the invader does not officially own the city).
    Well, what usually happens on this kind of games it's that if you defeat the troops the popular masses surrender and submit like the lambs they are.

    Quote Originally Posted by imp_fireball View Post
    3. New cities can be built, but they cost a lot of money, require settlers and you must appoint people to rule over them. That person's loyalty is now a value that they can control (they aren't simply loyal in accordance to their morale, like troops or workers). You must take action to ensure their loyalty (and if they are disloyal, find a quick way to get rid of them without city on city war).
    The problem with this it's that it may degenerate into each side trying to city spam to increase their production.

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    Default Re: Combat Rules for a Stronghold 4X Game?

    1. Each city has basically an infinite population for you to recruit from.
    2. In order to get gold from said population you need markets and to get food you need farms. But each city has a limited buildeable area.
    3. Each city also has an "Order" value between 0 and 100. An order of 100% means the city works at full power, anything less results in a penalty in food and gold production.
    4. A barracks allows you to recruit troops, but that results in a penalty in Order.
    5. Order can be restored with inspections wich cost gold.
    6. All troops are equal, but you can equip them with diferent weapons that grant them special abilities, like horses giving movement bonus and spears allowing you to push enemies.
    7. Troops can be trained, wich improves their will. Will is needed to execute any special combat tactic.
    8. More sophisticated abilities like sneaking and stealing resources are granted by special leaders. So if you want your force of Ninjas you'll need the ninja warlord.
    9. Leaders are however scarce so you need to diversify your army and know when to retreat or else see your leaders captured by the enemy.
    1. I was thinking that each city would have a listed population. That way, it can increase over time or can be increased through, ie., active immigration policy.

    2. Instead of building, you just assign workers the tasks. Actual permanent abodes are usually things like forts (ie. walls and towers for a city), monuments to culture (religious stuff). Things can be built outside of a city, such as ditches, trenches, etc. but they don't add to your city's defense. They're just defense in and of themselves. You can keep food without it rotting away and thus resist enemy sieges, by building food silos. The actual population usually builds their own houses either within or outside the city, so you don't need to worry about that (but you can still invest in increasing standard of living to incourage greater population growth and higher taxes). Each city has a garrison space (ie. 400 units or 40 tons) for troops which increases when the city is upgraded. Troops that go over this limit remain on the field. Troops on the field require rations (food that takes away from that stored in the city and lasts so-and-so weeks on standard or more), thus garrisoned troops that go over the limit must always be swapped out (sort of a fee for managing larger armies).

    6. This fits into 'troop roles', I'm thinking. Light infantry might be designated as 'spear men', but they need to be trained for the job (a troop unit with enough training can swap out multiple roles). As spearmen, they could be anti light cavalry (deal bonus damage to light cavalry), ie.

    7. Troops can do anything according to a 'basic training regimen' that you assign that makes them troops (and if you want them to be elite, you can put them through 'advanced training regimen' which costs more money). Basic training regimen is anything you choose to allocate to it, in accordance to education. Adding or taking away from the regimen is called 'modifying it' which is a 'management fee'. Troops that are made into elite troops can swap functions, ie. light infantry can become heavy infantry due to being extra tenacious or even be turned into heros and warlords (the latter usually requires experience and victories on the battlefield), or simply be made into higher level light infantry (like from foot soldier to knight or samurai). Warriors from the stone age might have basic training regimen that precludes throwing stones, shouting wildly and chasing after mammoths with crude spears.

    8. You don't need leaders to do this, but like any unit, they help as warlords. Education that is not 'basic/advanced training regimen' is 'specific training regimen'. This is how you create espionage units as well as cross espionage/light units such as ninja.

    9. Having a leader captured is no worse then having soldiers captured (it is, after all, all just information the enemy can use against you). The only bad thing is that you lose that leader's command rating (which is essentially their 'charisma' or why you'd make them a leader since that gives the better bonuses, not including the leader's actual level). Thus, you'd have to assign new troops to become leaders and hope that they have a charisma that's similar or better than the ones you lost (troops don't have charisma until they become leaders - charisma randomly appears). Becoming a leader requires Advanced Training Regimen.

    Heros on the other hand, are special as they can serve multiple roles all at once, at GM discretion. Ie. A hero could be both a light cavalry and a shockmancer.

    The problem with this it's that it may degenerate into each side trying to city spam to increase their production.
    Each city requires time, money and population to build. Population must be moved to the area, which requires more time. Building a city should be enough of an inconvenience that it can easily be countered.

    Also, you don't get to see what's in any city but the one your character (you) is situated in. In order to see another city, you must have your character visit it personally or send messengers to gather information. This way, it becomes more difficult to manage empires that are spread over vast landscapes. It's one of the reasons why the roman empire fell. Spawning cities everywhere seemed cool at the time, until having a severe lack of visibility made things more difficult then they could have imagined.

    Granted, in this game you can have much faster messengers then dudes on horses - ie. dragon/gryphon/pegasi/gnomish flying machine riders.

    Finally, resources produced in one city don't automatically teleport to another city. You must actually get people to carry them back and forth (this includes money; unless you have a mancer that can do this for you (yes mancers are very useful)). So really, having another city is only good for raising armies and distracting your enemies away from your capitol and/or biggest cities.

    that if you defeat the troops the popular masses surrender and submit like the lambs they are.
    Unless the enemy had some mancers that mind controlled everyone into servitude or set a biological agent on the local populace so that when your troops garrison within that city, they become diseased along with said populace.
    Last edited by imp_fireball; 2010-07-12 at 09:31 PM.

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    Default Re: Combat Rules for a Stronghold 4X Game?

    It took me awhile, but I designed a hex grid format (I won't show it right now, but I'll split it up and design different regions and then show each later on). Some of the hexes are a bit merged together though (I got lazy - width = 6000, height = 9000; created on paint.net).

    Legend


    - I'm thinking of using colors for elevation and symbols for terrain types (or maybe an existing map that is implanted onto the hex grid; although I'd need advice on how to indicate elevation levels). Symbols will fall along a terrain's border and then shift in accordance to a new border (or simply designate every hex of that terrain type). If we're playing online, I may need help labeling each hex (the most convenient method is probably x and y axis with numbers for each).

    - A city usually occupies only one hex - cities can be attacked by adjacent hexes, and the attacks target walls facing said direction that attack comes from; ie. northern wall targeted by hex directly north). Players can draw maps of their actual cities in close up whenever an enemy decides to garrison there and the player, I don't know, decides to attack from tunnels (if their city has any).

    - Hexes outside of a city can have their own built defenses - they preclude things such as barricades, traps, ditches and trenches and can be utilized if you command any units occupying that hex to 'fortify'.

    - Come to think of it, using square grids would've meant that an enemy could attack from 8 directions and lines of effect could be more easily determined (OotS even pointed it out) - I don't know how hexes make this any simpler except for eliminating 'kitty corners'. I do have a blank grid format saved, but ah well, this is done now.
    Last edited by imp_fireball; 2010-07-13 at 10:03 PM.

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    Default Re: Combat Rules for a Stronghold 4X Game?

    Here's the legend so far.

    Just to warn ahead of time, I pulled a bunch of images from google for it.

    EDIT: New terrain ideas: Thick and thin Boreal/rain forest. Area covered by one mountain. Light mountains? Rolling hills? Sparse Hills (maybe that'd effectively just be plains)? Foggy marsh. Weather conditions (as determined by GM)? Still need to consider elevation (+/- sea level).

    GM should roll to see if a terrain type has any special features when settled.

    Settling means you don't have to create a city - you can establish a small enclave or community or town but this generally attracts less population and is much harder to defend.

    Turns would go by day cycles. Every odd turn would be day - noon, whereas every even turn would be evening - dark hours. Of course, some creatures have advantages during different times of day over others.
    Last edited by imp_fireball; 2010-07-14 at 06:20 AM.

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    Default Re: Combat Rules for a Stronghold 4X Game?

    Honestly I think you're overcomplicating way too much now.

    First a game like this shouldn't need a GM. Each charater should at least know what's hapening on their own terrain and the neutral stuff can be solved by random tables. Being able to at least see your cities is one of the basics of any 4x game.

    Second, your whole personalized troop training is a can of worms. If all troops can be trained individualy into any troops and then the bonus stack it simply becomes impossible to make any combat system that won't slow down the game to a crawl. That's why I sugested warlords giving special abilities since they're few. If you intend to go forward with personalized trainable custom individual troops don't count me in for this project.

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    Default Re: Combat Rules for a Stronghold 4X Game?

    Quote Originally Posted by Oslecamo View Post
    Honestly I think you're overcomplicating way too much now.

    First a game like this shouldn't need a GM. Each charater should at least know what's hapening on their own terrain and the neutral stuff can be solved by random tables. Being able to at least see your cities is one of the basics of any 4x game.

    Second, your whole personalized troop training is a can of worms. If all troops can be trained individualy into any troops and then the bonus stack it simply becomes impossible to make any combat system that won't slow down the game to a crawl. That's why I sugested warlords giving special abilities since they're few. If you intend to go forward with personalized trainable custom individual troops don't count me in for this project.
    It's simpler than it sounds. Be patient and I'll reveal more - and then we can work on cutting down things to make everything interpretable without taking away from the depth of the game.

    Also, every game, short of Risk, needs a GM.

    Being able to at least see your cities is one of the basics of any 4x game.
    You can see your cities. You just need scouts to tell you where its located so that you can add it to your map appropriately.

    Because cities don't usually move, it's more or less appropriate this way.

    You need to scout constantly to see enemies and npcs though.

    Allies 'share vision' by sharing scout reports.
    -------

    Rules so Far

    - Scouts require specific training regimen. They generally have more move but are terrible at attacking.

    - Espionage requires a territory to be under surveillance (a function that scouts can perform, provided you have enough), otherwise they are guaranteed to fail. Espionage can perform sabotage, assassination (requires higher combative stats), etc. Espionage is a special ability listed under a troop's special abilities

    - A troop is anything that has gone through a training regimen, whether basic, advanced or specific

    - Basic creates level 1 troops, whom have to progress in levels through wins. If troops fight in a unit, the entire unit levels up. Units generally function best with similar troops of similar roles and the same class (class = light or heavy infantry, whereas role = archers or anti-cavalry, etc.). Basic regimen troops have proficiency with only one role, which is given upon creation (or before, depending on what GM rules).

    - When a troop levels up, it increases one of its stats by 1 (unless a racial bonus or condition gives them a greater increase to a specific stat per level, etc.) or applies proficiency to a new role that can be swapped once per turn out of garrison or fortifying (or at any time while in garrison or fortifying but not during a combat phase). Units usually level up every troop in the unit and troop levels are only determined for the sake of whenever units are disbanded. Hero and warlord levels are always determined individually.

    - Garrison means that the troop does not need rations and usually offers bonuses to combat made in defense. Rations are food they take away from a stock, such as a city or town, and consume at a certain rate on the field.

    - Advanced, in accordance to however much money is spent, trains 'elite' troops; troops of a level higher than 1. It can also train warlords, which are never higher than level 1 and heros, which are warlords with levels usually higher than 1 and special abilities such as 'gishing' (magic and combat intertwined) or conditions (such as very big and heavy ECL despite lower ECL race; ie. Parson is a human hero and is quite large). Advanced can have multiple roles, depending on what their level allows them.

    - Units receive bonuses for having warlords assigned to them. Warlords can command divisions (multiple units) providing their bonus to all of them, however the bonus is diminished. If warlords command other warlords, they provide their bonus to other warlord's leadership bonus, provided said warlord commands a group of of units (or one unit) in a division another warlord has total control over. The layers of command can only max out at 3, with the first 2 only providing the bonuses. Layer 1 = Probably unit commanding warlord. Layer 2 = Probable division commanding warlord (any group of units a warlord commands becomes a division; bonuses don't stack for warlords commanding another warlord that commands a division). Layer 3 = Supreme Warlord, who commands an entire nation's military, and holds power over all warlords within said nation. They provide an additional leadership bonus to all warlords, however using them is risky. The supreme warlord is usually 'you', your player character or leader, since it can increase your military reputation to have a strong ruler that follows his troops into battle (partly why figures such as Alexander and Genghis Khan were so successful).

    - 'Leadership' bonus translates into attack/defense, or other stat bonus for troops in unit(s), depending on the orders they are given (ie. 'Fortify' = apply leadership bonus as defense bonus when warlord is present in unit or unit(s)).

    - Troops have a variety of stats for combat and turn, represented by a number for each
    Spoiler
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    - Move = How many hexes they can move in a given turn. If a unit has troops that have different move, then apply only the lowest move (unless the unit disbands). If a unit retreats after an attack, then they waste no move (however they must move away from the hex that they commenced the attack in, which effectively costs 1 move).

    - Agility = How much move is wasted after a certain action is performed, such as attacking. The higher the agility, the slower the unit effectively is at adapting to changing situations. Ie. 2 agility means the unit wastes two move after carrying out an attack that does not result in a retreat. Agility also has a second number called 'initiative' (see 'in battle'). For troops with different initiatives in one unit, use the average initiative for that unit.

    - Combat = The modifier to the d20 roll that determines the result of combat (highest roll wins; tie = re-roll). This usually applies to both 'offense' and 'defense' for a unit. For troops with different combat values in a unit, use the average for that unit. Units given specific orders (only 1 order per unit) apply their combat values to specific things such as 'defense' or 'offense'. Troops with certain roles have bonuses under specific combat functions such as 'defending' or even 'blind attacks' (attacking hexes that you have no vision for) and as well may have bonuses when attacking units of other assigned roles (ie. spears versus mounted cavalry) - in the latter case, give the average combat value for troops of only those roles in the unit and then give the bonus and treat combat with their specific anti-role as separate (another d20 roll, applied modifier). Combat is always rolled per each unit. Units always engage individual units and never multiple units all at once (note that multiple units can appear in one hex).

    - Special: Some troops have special functions, such as espionage, repair (also a function of workers) or siege. Special also might become a listing for troops of certain roles that make them distinctive (ie. light cavalry archers can shoot into separate un-occupied hexes as an attack, without moving into the hex; this is a special listing for those troops).

    - Magic can supplement anything
    -----
    In Battle

    - Troops can fight to the death. Usually this means that both sides keep rolling opposed d20 rolls and applying combat modifiers one after the other, until one or the other deals enough damage to completely kill or capture the other. At any time, during 'attack turn' one can choose to retreat.

    - Initiative is always rolled at the start of each unit on unit battle, except during successful surprise attacks or readied opposition (ie. one unit readies itself to attack once another certain unit of certain class and/or role makes an attack turn against them).

    HP - Units generally take damage equivalent to however much they were beaten by in the opposed d20 roll modified by the damage value. The GM determines what troops are killed, taken prisoner (if such orders for the opposing side are given), etc. Some troops deal additional damage, whether always or under specific circumstances (ie. the enemy unit is fortified). Additional damage is also dealt in circumstances in which one unit is larger than another.

    Light infantry

    - Light infantry generally only have 1 hp at first level (equivalent to ECL 1 in accordance to race and in accordance to D&D standards). Each point of damage kills or captures a light infantry.

    - Workers usually always have 1 hp, no matter what level they are.

    Heavy Infantry

    - Heavy infantry, depending on the troop, have an arbitrary number of hp, thus making them harder to kill. Usually their ECL is higher than 1 at 'first level', otherwise the decision to make them heavy was a poor one.

    Light Cavalry

    - Light cavalry usually have high move and agility, but not always decent combat. They also often make the best scouts. Hp is arbitrary, but on the lower end than heavy cavalry.

    Heavy Cavalry

    - Heavy cavalry are slower but more robust than light cavalry

    Titans

    - Titans (name stolen from warhammer, I know), are massive creatures - sometimes occupying more than one hex due to sheer size, always above ECL 1, etc. Their hp and bonus to damage (but not necessarily combat; otherwise they could not be defeated) is usually immense, often surpassing entire units. Titans are hard to obtain. Alternatively, they could simply function as designated heavy infantry of a very special creature type with special such as siege.


    So far the only thing that stacks (I believe) is Hp and possibly damage, if the troop has some sort of damage bonus (if none, it's just 1 damage accorded to however much higher the combat roll of the attacker is than the defender).

    EDIT: This was changed. Damage is now equal to combat roll, since in a battle both units generally suffer losses. This could change in the case of one unit being completely slaughtered but dealing enough damage to kill off the other unit (since both units being killed off is silly unless say, both deal equal damage).

    Oh, and rations also stack.
    Last edited by imp_fireball; 2010-07-16 at 10:10 PM.

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    Default Re: Combat Rules for a Stronghold 4X Game?

    Interesting but I'm quite busy with other projects right now so at best I'll be able to give an opinion over the weekend.

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    Default Re: Combat Rules for a Stronghold 4X Game?

    Alright, here's combat rules fleshed out as much as I can make it right now.

    Spoiler
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    - During movement, a player must specify which hexes the unit moves into along their movement path. If any of those hexes are occupied by an enemy unit, then a combat phase is initiated.

    - Combat begins with both units rolling initiative (the second value under the unit's agility - remember that agility for a unit is the lowest among every troop's agility).

    - Highest initiative goes first. If a unit is already defending and they go first, then they can choose to delay their action. Attacking would mean that they come out of defense. Because that unit is defending, which only occurs if they are fortified, then they get a bonus to opposed combat rolls following an attacker's combat roll, provided they have a warlord in the unit. If they are not defending already, then they can choose to take the action of 'defending' instead of delay - which is essentially fortifying mid-battle rather then outside of battle. This sort of action can only be done if the enemy has not yet attacked (usually in the case of the defender going first).

    - When one unit attacks another unit, make a d20 combat roll, opposed by the defender's combat roll (the second roll is always made by the 'defending unit'). If the defending unit is fortified, they get a +4 circumstantial bonus to their combat roll (+ whatever else might offer benefit, such as special terrain or constructions, ie. trenches and/or barricades).

    - Depending on the number each unit rolls, that is the amount of damage dealt to both combating units. Each unit has Hp equal to the sum of the Hp of each troop within the unit. Additional damage is dealt from any troops in a unit that have advantages over troops from the opposing unit.

    - Other advantages include superior numbers of troops in one unit over troops in another. For every multiple of troops that one unit has over another, apply a +8 quantitative bonus to combat rolls versus the opposing unit (ie. if one unit is 3 times as large in troops as the opposing unit, the former unit has a +16 to combat rolls in regards to the opposing unit).

    - A combat roll that's high enough - ie. twice that of the opposing unit - means that the better unit can impose advantages, such as reduction in damage dealt to them in exchange for reduced damage dealt to the opposing unit (ie. unit one rolls 35, while the opposing unit two rolls 17; the former unit one can treat unit two's roll as a roll of 16 for the purpose of damage dealt to them, but in return deal only a 34 for damage - they cannot go below this number since that would go beyong the borderline 'trounce' advantage). Other advantages, include lowered agility (2 for 1; so if the roll were 36 to 17, then transforming the roll of 36 to 34 would allow you to lower your unit's agility by one for that combat phase).

    - Attacking costs move, but defending does not.

    - Certain defenses also only offer damage reduction.

    - Actions that can be performed on a unit's turn in a combat phase
    1. Attack (costs move)
    2. Switch tactics (ie. fortify, but only if opposing unit has dealt no damage)
    3. Retreat (costs no move). Retreating gives the enemy room to respond once, so they may attack and you may defend at half the combat roll. When the enemy deals damage, subtract your unit's rolled initiative in that combat phase from damage. The only defense advantage you may use when retreating is terrain and racial (such as flying) and nothing else.

    Ie. Unit 1 wins initiative (26) and retreats from Unit 2. Unit 2 responds with an attack and rolls 38, dealing 38 damage. Unit 1 defends with a roll of 26, dealing 13 damage (1/2 of 26) and subtracts 26 from 38, meaning Unit 2 dealt only 12 damage. Unit 1 retreats into an adjacent hex in a different direction from their original movement (usually any direction that is not 'beside' or 'beyond' the opposition), away from the hex Unit 2 now occupies. Unit 1 loses X soldiers worth 12 damage, determined by the GM. Unit 2 loses X soldiers worth 13 damage, also determined by the GM.

    - In a surprise round, the unit that gains surprise makes an attack roll without the enemy unit being granted an opposing roll (essentially deal damage without retaliation; however defensive bonuses of the enemy unit can reduce damage dealt; which is why such is valuable rather then boosting 'offensive defense'). After the surprise round, both units roll initiative and normal combat phase (with offenders and defenders) begins.

    - One unit can press through another unit. This is like a 'forward retreat', where one unit slams into another's ranks and attempts to get past (that is, move through hex without killing everything first). Treat this like a retreat (costs no move), except that the retreating unit does not get to subtract damage dealt to them by initiative - also, the enemy can select to defend from this, costing them no move but also only dealing half damage.
    Last edited by imp_fireball; 2010-07-16 at 10:00 PM.

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    Default Re: Combat Rules for a Stronghold 4X Game?


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    Default Re: Combat Rules for a Stronghold 4X Game?

    So... nobody's gotten around to any critiquing yet?

    If I ever get around to it, I'll add more to this.

    NOTE: Troops garrisoned in a city are automatically fortified at all times until they come out of garrison. Garrisoning costs no move; it merely requires a unit to occupy a hex occupied by the city/town/enclave/whatever. In order to come out of garrison, the unit must wait until next turn however.

    --------
    Sample City
    Spoiler
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    Hev-Barad - The holy gem of the deserts (Level 3)

    Occupied Terrain: 2 Hexes (insert co-ordinates here); Shallow Desert
    Manifest 10% Tax, 90/100 Loyalty, 400 food consumed per turn
    Population 8000 (90% Human, 10% Halfling)
    Demographic 2000 idle, 6000 workers (+500 money per turn)
    - 20 Scholars
    - 380 Teachers
    - 1500 misc. harvesters (+150 misc. per turn)
    - 4000 food harvesters (3200 human, 800 halfling; +520 food per turn/+120 food profit revenue)
    - 100 merchants
    Resources in Garrison (in tons) 1556 misc., 2900 food, 20,000 money
    Constructions
    - 1 Granary (max: 8000 food)
    - 1 Warehouse (max: 10,000 misc.)
    - 10 Stone Walls (surrounding twin hexes; 8000 hp each, 20 DR/Siege)
    - 4 Crenellated Towers (Fortified ranged combat +2, +4 surveillance)
    - 2 Gates, at north and south stone walls (Towers activate gates)
    - 1 Barracks (+300 Garrison)
    - Space for twenty one (21) more constructions
    Troops in Garrison
    300 Light infantry (300 Garrison)
    - 200 Short Archers (7 move, +1 range, +2 Combat)
    - 50 Swordsmen (9 move, +3 Combat; +1 defense versus light infantry [ranged])
    - 50 Spearmen (9 move, +2 Combat; +2 combat/defense versus light cavalry)
    4 Warlords (5 Garrison)
    - Dan, ECL 3 Short Archer (7 move, +4 Combat, +1 range, +2 charisma; 3 hp)
    - Jim, ECL 2 Swordsmen (9 move, +4 Combat; +2 defense versus light infantry [ranged], +1 charisma; 3 hp)
    - Jake (hero), ECL 4 Cavalry Charger/Paladin (18 move, +7 Combat; +4 versus light infantry that are surprised; +2 versus light infantry otherwise, +4 charisma; 7 hp)
    Special: [Glorious Light; always during combat, no move or mana] - Can light up dark areas, eliminating defense advantage otherwise provided to enemies.
    - Melissa, ECL 2 Aggromancer (8 move, +1 Combat, 5 mana, +3 charisma)
    Special: [Aggravate; 2 mana, 3 move] - Melissa forces an enemy unit in an adjacent hex to attack any unit that she is a part of. NOTE: Does not work if Melissa's unit can trounce the enemy unit.
    [Fury; 3 mana, 1 move] - Melissa hikes up the adrenaline in any chosen unit occupying the hex that she occupies. Chosen unit(s) acquire +2 Combat for the rest of the turn.
    Heavy Infantry
    - None
    8 Heavy Cavalry (64 Garrison)
    - 8 War Elephants (+6 Combat; +4 versus light infantry and light cavalry, 5 move, 8 hp)
    Specific (94 Garrison)
    - 45 Scouts (light horse; 25 move, +1 combat, +1 detection; +1 versus light infantry)
    - 4 Hassassins (8 move, +1 combat; +5 versus enemies that they are able to stealth into; +3 Espionage)
    Special: [stealth] - Hassassins can move through enemy occupied spaces without initiating combat or even being noticed by the opposing player. They must make an Espionage check versus the player's surveillance level (if in a player's city/town/enclave, etc.) or detection level (if moving through a hex occupied by a player's unit; note that most units don't have detection except for scouts, warlords and other specific units; detection and surveillance are always DC 10 + detection and/or surveillance modifier unless augmented by a spell or other condition).

    ----

    Shallow Desert Terrain Type

    Shallow Deserts are easier to build on than Dune Deserts (lowered misc. cost). Although they offer no resource bonuses in either food or misc., they consume twice as many rations per turn that non-natives (creatures that aren't part of a nation owning a city that occupies shallow desert terrain) choose to occupy their hexes.

    Races

    Humans

    Humans are easier to educate than any other race. +1 to research roll. 50% less cost in educating.

    Halflings

    Halflings are excellent foragers. +100% bonus when gathering food. +1 to espionage versus units and cities with no halfings in them.

    Bonuses

    Bonuses stack on top of other bonuses (unless listed otherwise) and are in addition to the base value.

    Ie. +1 Combat; +2 versus light infantry [ranged], means that the troop treats his combat as +3 when fighting a unit with light infantry that have range (usually listed as range +X in their listing).

    Bonuses always apply, even when a troop is paired with other troops in one unit different from himself.
    Last edited by imp_fireball; 2010-08-09 at 05:52 PM.

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