Resurrecting D&D 3.5

[Boci]

So I asked here: http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showt...92#post8871092 to make sure it’s okay, but please note the limitations. Anyway, do you think it could happen that another company bought / made a deal for the license to publish D&D 3.5 material?
I'm not an expert on economics, but I'm guessing there is only so much money you can make from something that is out of print, so WotC would not lose much. And there is certainly an already established customer base for 3.5 books. In addition to the standard customers for any RPG, you have:
1. Diehard 3.5 fans who never converted to 4E
2. The D&D fans who use both
3. People introduced to D&D 4ed and want to try out some of the more previous editions
Just look here: http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=155381 that’s quite a few people apparently still willing to pay for 3.5 source books.
Certainly there are some companies apart from WotC that have some experience making 3.5 sourcebooks, so we have all the ingredients. Do you think it could happen? As someone who uses 3.5, would you start buying 3.5 books again, or make do with those already published? What company would you like it to be?
Personally, I do not know enough about the possible companies to have a favourite, but I am sure I would continue to buy them. As for could it happen? No idea, but I can always hope.

[Defiant]

Not going to happen. I really don't see it, to be honest.

[Wings of Peace]

Certainly there are some companies apart from WotC that have some experience making 3.5 sourcebooks,

If you're in the business of frosting cakes for a bakery and suddenly they decide that instead of vanilla cakes they will make chocolate cakes how long would you expect to stay in business if you decide you're going to keep on frosting just vanilla cakes?

[Umael]

D&D 3.5 is a dead game in the way that Latin is a dead language.

(Please, re-read and consider what I said before leaping to conclusions.)

[arguskos]

D&D 3.5 is a dead game in the way that Latin is a dead language.

(Please, re-read and consider what I said before leaping to conclusions.)

Not the main thing anymore, but still heavily used in many places? Cause, that's really the only thing I can think of that you mean with that statement.

Also, I'd be interested, but the odds of it happening are pretty low honestly.

[Zovc]

What about Pathfinder? Is that related in any way to what you're talking about?

[Fax Celestis]

It's been tried, trust me. WotC is a business primarily, and actively creating competition is not exactly a good business practice.

There are plenty of projects (including Pathfinder and my own d20 Rebirth) that are trying to do what they can with the OGL base and their own alterations, but really, I find myself wishing more and more that I could have access to three particular books in d20r.

[Umael]

Not the main thing anymore, but still heavily used in many places? Cause, that's really the only thing I can think of that you mean with that statement.

Dead languages don't change. Official, there is nothing more being produced for D&D 3.5. However, that doesn't mean it isn't very popular or useful.

[El Dorado]

Don't see it happening. It's hard enough for a game company to maintain profitability. Any revenue gained by selling the rights to a third party would quickly be offset by loss of market share to that same company.

[Boci]

To the nay sayers: firstly, I am not saying I disagree with you. If I had to guess yes or no, will it happen, I would say no. But, lets consider the specifics of such an agreement:

1. WotC is very unlikely to say "Give us X money and you can have D&D 3.5". A temporary liscence is far more likely. This would prevent such an agreement from haunting WotC profits for two long.

2. WotC could gain a percentage of the profits of each book. I'm still confident the new company could benefit from such a deal even with these reduced profits.

Finally, such a move could increase confidence in WotC. I do not know if they are of significant number, but I am sure there are some role players who do not want to invest too heavily in 4ed because they are worried it will be abandoned when 5ed comes out.

As I said, I'm no expert on economics, and I doubt this could happen, but I find it interesting to think about and I hope that somehow it does work out.

[EvilJoe15]

It's a nice pipe dream, but 5th being backwards compatible is more likely.

[Fax Celestis]

1. WotC is very unlikely to say "Give us X money and you can have D&D 3.5". A temporary liscence is far more likely. This would prevent such an agreement from haunting WotC profits for two long.

2. WotC could gain a percentage of the profits of each book. I'm still confident the new company could benefit from such a deal even with these reduced profits.

Explicitly, this has been attempted before and been denied.

[Boci]

Explicitly, this has been attempted before and been denied.

Dam. Oh well, I can always hope WotC screws up again and posts some other companies material and grants that company a limited liscence to publish 3.5 books as part of the court settlement.

[arguskos]

Explicitly, this has been attempted before and been denied.

Out of curiosity, do you have any external links to such events? I've not heard of it, and would find it very interesting to peruse.

[Fax Celestis]

Out of curiosity, do you have any external links to such events? I've not heard of it, and would find it very interesting to peruse.

I am unfortunately not at privilege to talk about specifics. Sufficient to say, I have an email, and the answer is "No. Never. Not even then."

[Reluctance]

Go out and find a legal PDF of a pre-4E D&D book. WotC would clearly make money off the licensing fees, so either there's a rational reason why they're not keen on it or there's an irrational reason they're not keen on it. Either way, the amount of money you'd need to change Hasbro's mind would be far more than you could ever hope to recoup from sales.

[arguskos]

I am unfortunately not at privilege to talk about specifics. Sufficient to say, I have an email, and the answer is "No. Never. Not even then."

Seriously? Damn. That's rough.

[BritishBill]

I am one of those people lucky to play 3.5 and as much as I love it I dont see wizards allowing anybody to publish anything for it. They are really going all out on pushing 4th edition. All the investments they have put in it I dont see them allowing it to fail.

[Lord Vampyre]

The OGL covers people wanting to make anything related to 3.5 supplements. The main problem with WotC selling the actual rights to 3.5 is actually in the trademark. They will never sell the D&D trademark or lease it while they are making money on the name in the form of 4E or later versions.

For them to allow another company the chance to use the trademark, opens them up to some major potential problems. Such as the company reselling the trademark. I suppose they could try to create some sort of gaming franchise. But in the end, I don't see it working out very well.

[Rothen]

There's a reason Rich made this comic.

Chances to get a license or agreement with WotC to use any of their intellectual property are pretty much nil.

There is a ton of homebrewed/non-official material out there on the net, though. The only problem is that you need to decode what is appropriate/balanced for a game yourself.

[ericgrau]

I think after 5e WotC will handle the job themselves. Right now they want people to play 4e.

[Morph Bark]

I'm guessing there is only so much money you can make from something that is out of print, so WotC would not lose much.

Aren't PDFs of the books still sold online? Other companies that would be potential buyers of the rights you describe could exploit that, and make 3.5 more popular than WotC's own 4E, which WotC would not want at all.

[Boci]

Aren't PDFs of the books still sold online? Other companies that would be potential buyers of the rights you describe could exploit that, and make 3.5 more popular than WotC's own 4E, which WotC would not want at all.

I'm pretty sure WotC stopped selling PDF long ago, since it made pirating their product too easy.

I think after 5e WotC will handle the job themselves.

What exactly do you mean by that?

[Mystic Muse]

If I were to have control (Just a pipe dream) Here's what I'd do.

1. Nerf casters a bit. Take out the more broken spells yadda yadda.
2. Replace the lower tier classes with homebrews (With permission from the creators of the homebrew's permission of course.)
3. Change the monster manual so that you can use the monters better as a player. (Anybody wanting to use monsters that you normally can't, I direct you Here)
4. Change a few of the rules* and emphasize the fact that these are all guidelines.


*alignment restrictions, All grafts automatically being evil, always X alignments, and clear up RAW.

[ericgrau]

What exactly do you mean by that?

I was thinking old material like 2e pdfs but I may have been mistaken as I can't find such things. There is some random free material on the WotC website, but it's adventures and errata and such; things that were always free. Chances of new 3.5e material is slim to none. People can buy all the old material they want from used book sources.

[KillianHawkeye]

The problem with this idea is that WotC has very little to gain by allowing companies to continue producing D&D 3.5 material. They don't care about 3.5 anymore now that they have 4e. If there's still new material for D&D 3.5, they think that less people will switch over to 4th Edition.

[Gorbash]

I'm pretty sure WotC stopped selling PDF long ago, since it made pirating their product too easy.

No, they're just greedy for money. When you give people an option to buy a cheaper PDF version, or the more expensive paperback, a lot of them will buy the cheaper one. But if you offer them only the expensive option, those who don't want/know to get themselves involved in piracy will pay the full price.

Precisely that attitude has earned them the scorn of the gaming community, and they're not actually subduing the piracy of their products, since there's a pirated version of every book they ever published on internet.

[AtwasAwamps]

Not to put too fine a point on it, but remember that WotC is now a part of Hasbro. For a major toy manufacturer and brand holder like Hasbro, ceding control of a brand is at the top of the “No Way In Hell” list of things to do. There are simply too many risks inherent in that. On top of that, you never, ever support an older version of a product you’re selling now…customer loyalty is one thing, good business is another. 4e is quite successful these days and while there is a die-hard crew that will never switch, WotC and Hasbro doesn’t NEED to care about that group and, I’m sorry to say…can’t afford to. Major companies like Hasbro were hit HARD during the recent economic difficulties in the U.S. and have neither the time nor the inclination to create a scenario in which the license another company to create a competing product that will not return 100% of the after-expenses profits to the core company.

From Hasbro’s point of view, 3.5 is an obsolete product that’s been updated to a newer, cooler, sleeker, more-friendly game. They don’t know why you would want the old one, and frankly, they don’t care.

[Optimystik]

Precisely that attitude has earned them the scorn of the gaming community, and they're not actually subduing the piracy of their products, since there's a pirated version of every book they ever published on internet.

To be fair, it's a lot easier to unprotect a PDF than manually scan in 70-100 pages.

From Hasbro’s point of view, 3.5 is an obsolete product that’s been updated to a newer, cooler, sleeker, more-friendly game. They don’t know why you would want the old one, and frankly, they don’t care.

Sadly, I have to agree with this.

[PairO'Dice Lost]

To be fair, it's a lot easier to unprotect a PDF than manually scan in 70-100 pages.

I believe his point was that every D&D book already exists in unlocked un-DRMed pirated form on the intertubes, so WotC stopping PDF sales now makes no difference whatsoever to piracy rates or convenience.