Scottish claymore stats...?

[Zieu]

I did a search that turned up nothing closely related, and did a quick skim of the Real World Weapon Questions thread to no avail.

I'm at a juncture in my campaign where we've arrived in a big city and I need to take advantage of the opportunity to get caught up in terms of weapons and equipment. The idea of a Scottish claymore came to mind, but I couldn't think of a specific example that would parallel its stats. The closest I could come to was a Greatsword, but...

Claymores can be one-handed or two-handed.
- The one-handed version weighs about 2 or 3 pounds
- The two-handed version weighs about 5 to 5.5 pounds

If my DM approved this as a weapon choice, what would be some likely stats for it based on its size/weight? D8's, D10's or D12's?) Crit range, martial or exotic, etc?

Thanks.

[gallagher]

Bastard sword

[Maeglin_Dubh]

When you say one-handed claymore, do you mean the basket-hilted backswords?

[Zieu]

When you say one-handed claymore, do you mean the basket-hilted backswords?

Well it's really a shorter, lighter claymore, but then again I'm using Wikpedia as my only source so far.

EDIT: @Gallagher - Well I considered a Bastard sword previously, but the reason I didn't think it was a good match for the claymore was that it's a "hand-and-a-half" sword; not big enough to warrant two-handed use, but not small enough to be one-handed either. The claymore I have in mind is either one or the other stats-wise, not a weird middleground like the bastard sword.

[Grumman]

The claymore I have in mind is either one or the other stats-wise, not a weird middleground like the bastard sword.

Longsword or Greatsword, then.

[gallagher]

Well it's really a shorter, lighter claymore, but then again I'm using Wikpedia as my only source so far.

EDIT: @Gallagher - Well I considered a Bastard sword previously, but the reason I didn't think it was a good match for the claymore was that it's a "hand-and-a-half" sword; not big enough to warrant two-handed use, but not small enough to be one-handed either. The claymore I have in mind is either one or the other stats-wise, not a weird middleground like the bastard sword.

have it without the feat, and it is two handed. THF is better than sword and board anyway.

though if you want to take EWP for a sword, you might as well spring for a jovar. its a better greatsword

[Zieu]

have it without the feat, and it is two handed. THF is better than sword and board anyway.

though if you want to take EWP for a sword, you might as well spring for a jovar. its a better greatsword

I can't find it in the PHB -- what makes the jovar better?

[Sindri]

A Scottish claymore is a greatsword. If you want a lighter weapon, everything from bastard sword to longsword to shortsword to rapier to falchion is available to you. There have been a great many weapons throughout history in widely disparate cultures that are similar in appearance and identical in usage and function, and for your convenience D&D has simplified it into a few archetypes, to which you can assign your own names. A bastard sword is also a katana; a short sword is simultaneously a very long knife, a gladius, and whatever else you want; a greatclub is both the stereotypical caveman weapon and that tree the ogre ripped up and hit you with. It really doesn't matter if you want to call your rapier an épée, or your javelin a jarid, or your hand axe a tomahawk, and in some cases you should rename your weapon (a falchion is a relatively light, one handed weapon).

[Kaiyanwang]

Longsword or Greatsword, then.

This. Why the need of specific stats?

[kpenguin]

Indeed. A claymore is a greatsword in the same manner that a katana is a bastard sword. There is no reason to come up with new unique stats for it.

[Leon]

As others have Said, Greatsword for a big two hander, bastard for the middle range and longsword for the one hander

Apply what ever name is appropriate to what your looking for and roll onwards.

I like to re-flavor the Great club (and its mental image of a large lump of wood) into the much more refined War Staff - a evolution of the humble quarter staff.

[Jeff the Green]

Like everyone's said: Highland claymore = great sword; basket-hilted claymore = long sword. Though if I were going with the basket-hilted version, I'd say it had a built-in buckler to represent the basket-hilt.

The only real-life weapons that really would need something other than reflavoring are really funky ones like the macahuitl. Even khopeshes can be scimitars and chakrams darts.

[Andion Isurand]

I can't find it in the PHB -- what makes the jovar better?

Jovar: Named for the layer of Celestia on which the city
of Yetsira sits, the exotic weapon known as a jovar is the
preferred weapon of the Heavenly City’s archon guards.

Planar Hanbook (pg. 68)

An exotic 2hander.

Just like a greatsword, but with a 18-20/x2 crit range.

[Prime32]

You realise that the word "claymore" literally means "greatsword", right?

[paddyfool]

Agreed with prior posters. Also, if you're worried about weight... the weights for all of the swords in the PHB are too heavy, so I either wouldn't worry about it, or fluff it as including the weight of a big fancy scabbard, a belt or harnass to hold the blade and scabbard, oil, whetstone etc.

[Spiryt]

Agreed with prior posters. Also, if you're worried about weight... the weights for all of the swords in the PHB are too heavy, so I either wouldn't worry about it, or fluff it as including the weight of a big fancy scabbard, a belt or harnass to hold the blade and scabbard, oil, whetstone etc.

And a mule to carry this stuff, and still perform Leap attack.

[Murdim]

A Scottish claymore is a greatsword. If you want a lighter weapon, everything from bastard sword to longsword to shortsword to rapier to falchion is available to you. There have been a great many weapons throughout history in widely disparate cultures that are similar in appearance and identical in usage and function, and for your convenience D&D has simplified it into a few archetypes, to which you can assign your own names. A bastard sword is also a katana; a short sword is simultaneously a very long knife, a gladius, and whatever else you want; a greatclub is both the stereotypical caveman weapon and that tree the ogre ripped up and hit you with. It really doesn't matter if you want to call your rapier an épée, or your javelin a jarid, or your hand axe a tomahawk, and in some cases you should rename your weapon (a falchion is a relatively light, one handed weapon).

There's something that always bugged me. The D&D3,5 short sword is a piercing, gladius-like weapon. Why isn't there a slashing, wakizashi or cutlass-like equivalent ?

[TurtleKing]

The Arms and Equipment guide as a list of D&D weapons and the real world equilavents. The Scottish claymore is a Greatsword. P 12 and 13 is where you can find the conversions for the weapons.

[Psyx]

"or fluff it as including the weight of a big fancy scabbard, a belt or harnass to hold the blade and scabbard, oil, whetstone etc."

...And about a dozen bricks, in the case of the greatsword.


"Why isn't there a slashing, wakizashi or cutlass-like equivalent ?"

There's the cutlass; it's just not in the DMG.

I once wanted a character to use a pair long stilettos for character reasons (1d4 18-20/x3), but the GM was resistant to me essentially using kukri which did pierce instead of slash because it 'wasn't in the rules'. After some head scratching, I got him to agree instead to halfling-sized rapiers with bigger handles. Go figure.

[hamishspence]

Its quite common for weapons to be basically similar to other weapons, but doing a different damage type. The Planar Handbook has a martial weapon that's identical to the short sword in nearly every way- except it does slashing damage instead of piercing damage.

[paddyfool]

"or fluff it as including the weight of a big fancy scabbard, a belt or harnass to hold the blade and scabbard, oil, whetstone etc."

...And about a dozen bricks, in the case of the greatsword.

A 3lb discrepancy isn't all that bad - big swords need big scabbards, after all. And the carrying limits are sufficiently forgiving for high Str characters that it makes no real game difference anyway, even if you do keep a careful track of this.

[hamishspence]

In the 2nd ed Arms and Equipment Guide, the claymore fell somewhere between the bastard sword and the greatsword in capabilities.

Did Scottish warriors ever wield the claymore of the large kind, in conjunction with a shield, or was it just a little too big to be wielded like that by anyone?

If too big- it should be a greatsword.
If a sufficiently skilled character could wield it in one hand- it should maybe be a bastard sword.

[snoopy13a]

There's something that always bugged me. The D&D3,5 short sword is a piercing, gladius-like weapon. Why isn't there a slashing, wakizashi or cutlass-like equivalent ?

Would those fall under the scimitar?

[hamishspence]

Planar Handbook had the straightblade- a martial slashing shortsword.

The cutlass used to be both piercing and slashing (in FRCS and Dragon 318) but became slashing only, in Stormwrack.

[Kaiyanwang]

The cutlass used to be both piercing and slashing (in FRCS and Dragon 318) but became slashing only, in Stormwrack.

I happy they nerfed it. Too overpowered, the FRCS version.

[Matthew]

I did a search that turned up nothing closely related, and did a quick skim of the Real World Weapon Questions thread to no avail.

I'm at a juncture in my campaign where we've arrived in a big city and I need to take advantage of the opportunity to get caught up in terms of weapons and equipment. The idea of a Scottish claymore came to mind, but I couldn't think of a specific example that would parallel its stats. The closest I could come to was a Greatsword, but...

Claymores can be one-handed or two-handed.
- The one-handed version weighs about 2 or 3 pounds
- The two-handed version weighs about 5 to 5.5 pounds

If my DM approved this as a weapon choice, what would be some likely stats for it based on its size/weight? D8's, D10's or D12's?) Crit range, martial or exotic, etc?

D20/3e has at least two levels of abstraction with regards to weapons. In the default rules, a great sword covers all two-handed straight bladed swords, and the long sword and short sword cover smaller sorts. The bastard sword is more demonstration of a game mechanism than it is representation of any specific sort of weapon. However, just as in AD&D, as the supplements continue to appear you see more and more specific weapon types with their own characteristics, which gives the false impression of equivalent levels of abstraction dealing with identifiable weapon types, which is potentially quite fun. Unfortunately, the low granularity means that there are only so many iterations on the theme.

The best question to ask is, perhaps, what do you think the difference is between a claymore and a D&D great sword? Once you have a clear idea of that you may be able to abstractly represent it. If it is going to be "better" than a great sword you probably need to look at how it can interact with specially designed claymore feats.

There's something that always bugged me. The D&D3,5 short sword is a piercing, gladius-like weapon. Why isn't there a slashing, wakizashi or cutlass-like equivalent?

In first edition AD&D (where just about all the weapon classifications come from) a short sword was more accurately described as any cut and thrust sword of 15-24" in blade length. Basically the designers of D20/3e never seem to have really gotten past that generalisation, even after turning it into the "piercing only" gladius of the popular imagination.

[Psyx]

"Would those fall under the scimitar?"

That's a medium length weapon. Shortswords are...shorter.


"Did Scottish warriors ever wield the claymore of the large kind, in conjunction with a shield"

No; it's a two handed weapon. A relatively small two handed sword, but still definitely two handed.

Smaller Scottish swords were normally used with a small shield and dagger off-hand. Very few one-handed swords (including rapiers) were ever intended to be used without a shield of some sort.

[balistafreak]

That's it. I'm sick of all this "Masterwork Greatsword" bulls--- that's going on in the d20 system right now...

*smack*

Sorry, had to.

To repeat, yeah, why isn't the claymore just a greatsword? That's literally what it means.

Or were you considering hitting your opponent with one of these?

Spoiler

Show

[panaikhan]

Or were you considering hitting your opponent with one of these?

Spoiler

Show

If you are, be sure to be wearing your Fire Resist 10 jacket, your DR 10/- vest, and your sunglasses.

[Psyx]

^

Pfft...no: EVASION!