Problem players?

[NoAdvantageBP]

What do you do when a player is always asking for more? It's easy to say 'no', sure, but then the player gets upset or tries to argue EVERY single rule with you. I have stood my ground...most of the time..other times I compromise. It just gets annoying and sometimes affects the mood of the game. What would you do?

[ryzouken]

Votekick for great justice!

Ever tried talking to him?

[valadil]

What do you do when a player is always asking for more?

More what? Play time? Punishment? Loot? XP?

How I handle it depends on what it is that they want.

[Math_Mage]

Useful general rule: There may be no more than 3 instances of rules discussion during any session, for 30 seconds or less in each case. Additional protests, reasoning etc. may be submitted to the DM after the session, so make a note. If such a submission results in a DM changing his mind, this will be made clear at the beginning of the next session.

Since it is one player in particular who is having trouble with your rules interpretations, get him alone and talk about what the problems are and how to alleviate them so as to avoid future interruptions of gameplay.

[Ubercaledor]

One of the following:

(in order of ascending frustration-induced book-throwing)

1- No, but...

2- Yes, if...

3- No, if...

4- Yes, but...

EDIT: I prefer #4, i.e. "Yes, you can dual wield two handed weapons, BUT doing so will give you a -10 to all attributes... permanently... for any other questions, please refer to rule 0..."

[cupkeyk]

If its an issue of rules interpretation then you can have him open an account here and let a third party direct you to both RAW and RAI.

[NoAdvantageBP]

I have talked to him. It just usually runs into the situation it always does when he calms down for a session, but then acts up again next time we game.

As for what he wants. Simple. Everything.

I could do the general rule, but this just seems to prolong the inevitable. The inevitable being the argument later on. I think one of his main problems is that he is used to being a DM so he is used to being in control.

[ryzouken]

Then the next time he starts up again, tell him to knock it off, and keep telling him each and every time until it gets through to him or until you kick him.

Consistency will do you more good here. Consistency and communication.

Or, kick and start looking in the queue for more players.

[Math_Mage]

As for what he wants. Simple. Everything.

Examples? wordswordswords

[Katana_Geldar]

And special requests I always deal with [B]out of the gameB]. If you level up with this super-awesome-feat or weapon from a source book I tiold you not to use and you don't tell me until after the dice are rolling. You get a simple answer: no.

You may also wish to remind him that his character is not the only on in the game and you have to think about everyone.

[NoAdvantageBP]

Examples? wordswordswords

"Can I roll an extra d6 for stats when making a character?"

He'll make a roll of 3 or some crap then say, 'Oops I never declared what I was doing.' then reroll. Then proceed to roll a 19 then declare what he's doing.

I'll tell him that he can't move diagonally when crossing a corner of a wall then he'll be moving his character counting to himself. When I count to myself too I realize he is not moving around things. I will point it out and he will argue with where he started or the route he took.

He'll say that because the rules don't say he can't do something that he can, when I say that if the rules don't say he can do something he can't.

He'll say that someone was facing the wrong way to notice something. I'll even make the check and he'll say, 'Well he just got attacked so it should be harder to notice.'

He'll argue durations when it clearly says in the spell what the duration is because the duration of that same effect on another spell will be different.

He'll say, 'Oh I forgot to do this, and expect me to let him rewind time to do it.'

We will annihilate a group of monsters, then when I put us up against something stronger, he'll say, 'This is a little much.' We still win but if it's close he thinks it's too much.

He conveniently adds wrong alot, and it seems like he wants me to miss it, though he always follows with, 'Oh, my bad, I was adding wrong.'

All in all, basically, he asks for alot, tries to bend rules alot, and gets upset if I don't let it happen.

I would like to continue gaming with this person because the fun times far outweigh the not-so-fun times. I just need some suggestions on what to do to get rid of the not-so-fun times.

[Mystic Muse]

One of the following:

(in order of ascending frustration-induced book-throwing)

1- No, but...

2- Yes, if...

3- No, if...

4- Yes, but...

EDIT: I prefer #4, i.e. "Yes, you can dual wield two handed weapons, BUT doing so will give you a -10 to all attributes... permanently... for any other questions, please refer to rule 0..."

Uh, you know, dual wielding two handed weapons is possible within the rules and it would hardly break TWF right?

[Katana_Geldar]

Sounds like you need to assert your authority. All the rules in the world are not enough for Rule 0. You sound as if you're giving him too many breaks, let him know you'll not stand for it and stick to your guns!

[Math_Mage]

"Can I roll an extra d6 for stats when making a character?"

*sigh* That's...pretty blatant.

Lay down the law. You're the DM, you make the rules, and you won't fudge them just because a player asks nicely. Tough encounters exist, and death is a clear and present danger. Mistakes happen, and it's no excuse for disrupting play to fix them; failure happens, and it's no excuse to fudge bonuses. Make it clear to him that you want him in the group, but reiterate that there are some points he needs to shape up on.

Then, cooperate with him on shaping up. Maybe he has trouble counting up his bonuses--suggest a pre-added chart based on differing buffs. Maybe he genuinely thinks there's a spell balance problem because of duration differences--suggest a fix, or explain why it's balanced. That sort of thing. If you work with him to make his rules difficulties go away before the game starts, he has no excuses for starting them up in-game. To be blunt, if you help him make his attack bonus chart, you know if he's lying about it.

[Kaun]

Get a water pistol, nothing major just one of the small cheap ones and every time he does somthing like that spray him in the face a couple times.

[Kylarra]

That's pretty blatant cheating. I'd talk to him out of game about those issues.

[Morithias]

I say just whip out my favorite book of all time for dealing with these kind of players.

And no it is not any kind of 'rule 0' or DMG. It is called....the Hackmaster system.

Play it as written for just 1 session and they will be begging you to go back. Seriously you know that 'gate' spell that is considered very broken? Well that ages you 5 years in this system...EVERY time you cast it.

[Psyx]

"He'll say that because the rules don't say he can't do something that he can, when I say that if the rules don't say he can do something he can't."

He's failing to notice that it's your game, and you set the rules.

And cheating.

And thinking that he's entitled to do stuff (extra rolls, cheating) that others playing the game aren't.

I'd seriously tell him to cut it out or find another group.

Is this guy 14 or something?

[Kaun]

One of these days we need to sticky one of these "problem player" threads because they pop up so often you can have two in the one week.

[Frog Dragon]

Is this guy 14 or something?

Objection! Our gaming group is made up of 13-15 year olds and we have none of these problems.

[taltamir]

If its an issue of rules interpretation then you can have him open an account here and let a third party direct you to both RAW and RAI.

good point... as long as it is about rule interpretation questions and the DM actually WANTS to defer to WOTC about that. the DM can, of course, always house rule it the way he wants it to work.

That being said, unless BOTH the player and the DM are world class experts, its always useful to consult people... but not disrupts game-play to do so (unless its a pretty extreme issue). most can be discussed outside the actual session.

[Math_Mage]

One of these days we need to sticky one of these "problem player" threads because they pop up so often you can have two in the one week.

This stickied thread discusses problem players as part of the package of being a GM.

[Escheton]

Sounds like he is just generally unfulfilled in life and is using dnd in the wrong fashion and as such can't deal with it as the game it is.
Dude needs help, and you guys are not the ones to provide it.
Problem is, there will likely not be anyone around who is.

You might need to tell him to deal with his problems elsewhere and not bring it with him to the game. Bagage at the door sorta thing.
Or if you really consider him a friend, or pity him you could just have a good talk to him outside the game. But that is asking a bit much.

[Psyx]

Objection! Our gaming group is made up of 13-15 year olds and we have none of these problems.

Ok...is he an only child, then?


Some people who game aren't actually gamers. They game because their friends game, or because their PC won't run 'Killeveryonebeuber XIII', or because it's more fun to annoy people IRL than via Counterstrike, or because it's just a way to fill time that beats watching TV, rather than a passion. They intrinsically 'don't get it' and sometimes never do. I'd hazard that your friend might fall into that group.

Or he might just be a complete dufus.

After all; normal people with a developed brain mass and accompanying social skills don't stand in the middle of a soccer pitch EVERY SINGLE WEEK insisting to the ref that they should be allowed to pick up and carry the ball and blatantly foul at the detriment of everyone else*. Which is essentially what he's doing.




*Unless they're from the Netherlands, it seems.

[valadil]

"Can I roll an extra d6 for stats when making a character?"

...

I would like to continue gaming with this person because the fun times far outweigh the not-so-fun times. I just need some suggestions on what to do to get rid of the not-so-fun times.

Ahh. I've seen players like that. Three come to mind actually. Here's how I dealt with them.

S wanted her character to be cool and special. She likes being the exception to the rules. This goes for life as well as D&D. It wasn't so much that she thought she was special enough that the rules didn't apply to her. She simply wanted to be that special.

Anyway, when dealing with her character, the best thing I could do was make her special in ways that didn't affect the rules. Other players would have cared if I gave her rerolls once an hour. But if I described the cool acrobatics she was doing or how awesome her clothing looked, she got really into that and nobody else felt ripped off.

Basically this was something I could give to that player without taking away from everybody else. She still whined about rules from time to time (for some reason insisting that evasion means she's immune to sneak attack, because she evades it obviously). But it made her happier overall so that the bad sessions were less frequent.

E also wanted exceptions to the rules. He wasn't satisfied by simple description though. He was simply attracted to weird concepts that were at the edge of what D&D supported.

I tried to let him have those things when they weren't too ridiculous or overpowered. An extra d6 at stat gen would be right out. Dual wielding hand crossbows? Yeah fine, whatever. Unfortunately he moved away before I really figured out how to deal with him as a gamer.

J is the single worst behaved gamer I've ever met. He thinks he's the only player. Everyone else is an NPC to him. He inserts himself into every scene and talks over the other PCs. You can't even interact with him because he just ignores you. He also wants ridiculous things. I think he's worse than the player you described because he doesn't ask permission. He just takes what he wants and throws a fit if you call him on it. The worst example of this I ever saw was that he decided his character was a robot.

The solution with J is to make him GM. He can't handle playing. He's just not mature enough for it (despite nearing 30). Wanting to be in the spotlight all the time isn't a problem when you're the GM. Nor is bending the rules as you see fit. I have to wonder if his inabilty to be a PC is because he's too used to running games.

[Frog Dragon]

Ok...is he an only child, then?

Nope. One is the youngest in the family, and one has a younger brother. And I did mean we're all 13-15.

[Amphetryon]

After all; normal people with a developed brain mass and accompanying social skills don't stand in the middle of a soccer pitch EVERY SINGLE WEEK insisting to the ref that they should be allowed to pick up and carry the ball and blatantly foul at the detriment of everyone else*. Which is essentially what he's doing.




*Unless they're from the Netherlands, it seems.

I see wut u did there. The Dutch players were just reacting to getting yellow cards for Spaniards falling over if the Dutch came within 12 inches of them.

[Beelzebub1111]

I have a player, let's call him M. I think that he's cheating...Quite Frankly, I know it. The amount of GP that he spends just seems way too much for him to have...and I know that his Wisdom was only 16 because he started the game with 2 psps (as a psychic warrior) and the next week his wisdom is 18...I just don't know how to call him on it. He's very subtle about it.

[Kylarra]

I have a player, let's call him M. I think that he's cheating...Quite Frankly, I know it. The amount of GP that he spends just seems way too much for him to have...and I know that his Wisdom was only 16 because he started the game with 2 psps (as a psychic warrior) and the next week his wisdom is 18...I just don't know how to call him on it. He's very subtle about it.

You could always get a copy of people's character sheets ahead of time and then keep track of loot acquired.

[NoAdvantageBP]

I have to wonder if his inabilty to be a PC is because he's too used to running games.

I believe you have hit the nail on the head. He is so used to running games, I believe the problem to be a control issue.

Everyone has given me great solutions, some I've used and some I haven't, but I think the biggest help is seeing all the people that have the same problem. I consider myself to be a pretty good DM, even though this is only my second time, but I just didn't know how to take care of this. As I said I've tried some of your suggestions, some with a measurable success, some not, but I will try the others as well. Maybe one day I'll find my eureka.